Hi,

DD5's teacher has said she won't give her more complicated maths at school because she hasn't learnt her addition facts adequately. At home dd is doing grade 3 maths on her own and can add muliple figures accurately in her head (though she has to write a sum down if she has to regroup). So I was surprised when I approached the teacher about some more challenging work and she mentioned that dd is being challenged by doing her 10-20 addition facts.

I suspect dd has a similar issue with maths she she does with reading. If the work is substantially below level she just doesn't pay attention, rushes through and gets things wrong. But of course my first response is 'oh, maybe I've misinterpretd her ability' - LOL

The teacher is the school's numeracy specialist so is 'the expert' on maths. She has said she will assess dd for me when she has time (she has been great this last month following on from our earlier issues, and it is report time here so this is not an unreasonable statement). I guess I am wondering if others have seen this kind of thing happening with something so basic? And any thoughts on what, if anything in particular, I should be be secific about asking to be assessed?

Thanks

Giftodd - I am no expert and your theory makes sense. But I also think that even kids with no attentional issues still have more trouble paying attention in a classrooom environment. I was actually just chatting to a friend about this yesterday. She had just done reading with her son's class for the first time since he started at a new school (last year). Her own son has inattentive ADHD but she was commenting that she was astonished that ANYONE managed to learn anything in a classroom and no wonder homeschoolers comment on how little time you actually need to do "work" to keep up with a normal school pace with all that time lost to 20 children trying to find their stuff, sort out their issues, causing disruptions, etc. And this was at a great school with really nicely behaved kids.

I certainly know that my own "normal" DD has vastly inferior handwriting, drawing, etc at school and I don't think it's that she is hiding her abilities. I think it's just that she's not yet 5 and at home she finds it much easier to focus on her handwriting but in a classroom her senses are constantly bombarded with a million other interesting things. She can make herself focus and do what is expected but she's not going to produce the same level of work she might at home... One hopes this improves with time and some of those skills becoming completely second nature.

Not sure that I can offer any insight, but we see an identical pattern with our DD8.5. She CAN do math well... in her head, and when she is not bored. Put her in class with distractions, below-level work and a pencil in her hand and she does the same as you describes. She doesn't listen to or read instructions well, she rushes and makes mistakes on easy addition or subtraction. I am sure that her school thinks I am a lunatic. I keep saying that she knows much more, but until she 'shows' them what she knows I really don't think they believe me.

Our school really emphasizes math facts in the classroom and on these yearly STAR tests they kids take starting in second grade.
You probably have to work with your child at home to get the math facts down quickly. My son takes these timed math tests- at first, I thought they were silly but now I think it's important to get the basics down pat. When they get to Algebra, they will really be handicapped if they are still counting on their fingers.
We've bought Kumon books, I've made flashcards, and I bought this silly game for $20 on the computer called Math Blasters. Actually, I would really recommend it. My kids love to blast space aliens quickly as they add/subtract, multiply, etc.

May I ask how she knows your daughter hasn't demonstrated her math facts? Is it through every day application or is it only on timed tests?

I had a nearly identical conversation with DS's teacher at the beginning of this year. After a lot of inquiry, her assumption was based entirely on him not passing his 100 problems in 5 minutes fact tests. He consistently did 85-90 problems with 100% accuracy but the school was expecting 95 to pass.

Timed tests can put a lot of pressure on gifted kids who are intense perfectionists. I discovered that DS was going back and erasing and re-writing numbers that he felt weren't totally legible. He also was finishing a row and checking his work. Finally, after observing one test by accident, I realized the teacher started counting down at 1 minute. She'd then say 45 seconds, 30 seconds, 15 seconds, HURRY UP HURRY UP! 10..9..8.. and so on.

I asked her to try once and reverse her test procedures. Give the kids the test, set the timer counting up, not down and leave them be. Have them record their time when they finish on the top of their paper. EVERY kid passed the fact test that week.

My long moral- sometimes the environment is the cause, not the facts :-)

Check this out too- "Faster Isn't Smarter" http://mathsolutions.com/documents/9781935099031_message18.pdf

that is an AWESOME quick article, thanks!!! the whole site looks great.

Yes, thank you! I will be printing that off for DD's file!

It's actually an excerpt of a longer book by Cathy Seeley. She's the past president of the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics. This gives her a little more weight with teachers and principals.

http://mathsolutions.com/index.cfm?page=wp18&contentid=994&crid=294&mcrid=107

Thanks for your replies - and I love that article too.

DD doesn't need to use her fingers, but she isn't fast and will shut down as soon as she thinks she's taken to long (it's taken a fair few moments of my own frustration to come to realise I just need to give her the space to process a question). So I will definitely ask about that. It's interesting, there was another thread on here where the poster was wondering if their child's maths skills were regressing and it reminded me of what dd still does - often if she's not required to think about a problem in the context of 'maths' she can come up with the correct answer spontaneously.

Anyway, I'll do some more investigating.

Thanks again

Yes, it's very likely that she just doesn't feel the need to work hard at the timed test. My DS8 gets sloppy on things that he already knows, because he's sick of seeing them and wants to get on with something new. We've had that discussion about the need to show that you know something so you can get something new, many times.

Yes, when my son is just working an interesting problem, he sort of forgets to go slow on the needed math fact recall...so I don't see a big problem for him other than with the teachers who feel speed is important.

Excerpted from the amazon overview:
This book of forty essays includes topics for new teachers and veterans on everything from specific mathematical material to general ideas, such as, it is a teacher s job to keep students interested, or is boredom a developmental stage?

So, what was the lady's answer?

LOL La Texican- I didn't read the whole book, I just stole the essay I needed to make my case :-) The school likes to throw out all sorts of old 1970s randomness. So I like to counter their random data with more random essays!