Too much clutter in the other post.

I would very much like to hear what others have to say, and you can judge me as uncreative too, doesn't bother me.

Judgements on this forum are so actual, they should be scientific.

Ren

Hmmm okay since DD is having free time in the other room I will post LOL

What is free time to me....time that DD can chose whatever she wants to do and I let her be (not saying ANYTHING, as the rules of the house still apply LOL), although sometimes she wants me to join in, in which case I do. I myself am a firm believer in structure, probably because even as a child I always needed it or I felt lost. I was the kid that hated summers and wanted to go back to school because I needed that structure LMAO.

I have an observation about DD, and this is just strictly her personality. She needs breaks structured time as much as she does free time. Take yesterday for example, no structure here because of some personal issues occuring yesterday, and DD got more and more wound up throughout the day and was unable to calm herself thus resulting in a midnight bedtime. She was in her room, but unable to calm herself enough to sleep.

This happens often, if I dont intervene after a while and do something structures, her energy level goes up, up, up, up....to the point it is insane. She has not learned self calming yet, although she is getting better. So what we have found works best is free time, structured time alternations throughout the day which works so much better, and she enjoys her day more.

Free time right now, she has chosen to draw....earlier it was legos, earlier today she decided to go out on the porch and shovel the snow (yep, she loves doing it and it is fun for her) Call her nuts, its okay LMAO. The theme through all of that, I did not even offer suggestions, she did it herself. Not to say I never say we can do this or this....I do, but that is usually resevrved for our structured time.

How much free time varies from day to day based on her mood as well as what we need to get done. I dont think there is any right answer. I don't think that even at 3 DD needs the whole day to play, because honestly lets face it, the kid enjoys doing science, math, and reading books way to much for play all day. But if I have those things out for her to do and she choses them I sat okay. I also say that on most day we do a little school everyday. Keeps me sane as a SAHM to be doing something structured, but hey she likes it, so HUGE help. I think it varies from child to child too. DD has a friend who totally resists structure of any kind and totally free plays all day. Works for her and her family at the moment. Would never work for DD, anytime DD plays there, she comes home and NEEDS something structured, heck she begs for it after there LOL.

I do think it gives her a chance to be creative, to figure herself out, and to play with her own thoughts....So for today she has probably had about 3.5 hours of free time so far. We went to the library, so although that is something she loves, begs for and enjoys, I don't consider it free time. We also did some visual perception worksheets as she is starting to read the chapter books where the lines are placed close together and her eyes skip alot which frusterates her, so we are working on somethings to help.

Okay so I have no clue if any of that made sense LOL. I am tired, Dh was out of town for a week, and has been sick since he got back, so has been at work or asleep...so I have had no break in 2 weeks and my brain is fried! LOL

Free time? It's anything DS8 wants to do. He's an only as well who loves my company. So free time for him is free time for me, and I NEED.

The link with creativity- I know he needs huge amounts of free time to let his mind roam wherever. If he doesnt have it, he gets really cranky. That happened when he went to school for a year. He started violin lessons a month ago and I basically don't interfere except to tell him he has to practice a few times a week. It's going okay (ie his teacher says he's doing well), but what's interesting is that he's started writing his own songs. This is Suzuki violin. They don't introduce note reading at the onset, so he made up his own coding structure based on what he can understand.

Over the years, free time has allowed him to build his Lego into transformers (and he made them moveable). People who've seen his stuff when he was 5 or 6 have asked if I did it. Duh! Free time has allowed him to chase up on whatever topics he wants. His reading is at grade 12 level because he reads anything he wants, based on interest.

My wish is for him to do more physical sports during his free time, and to mingle more with friends. He doesn't think so! Ive been encouraging this for the longest time but in our case, this part is structured time in that I've signed him up for yet another round of activities hoping that something will take and continue to look for social opportunities for him.

I wasn't judging. I was barely even speculating and only throwing out the idea because you seemed to be so confused about the connection between creativity, imagination, and free time. No offense intended.

You might want to google the ideas and see what you find.

Val

I love the judgement seen here. I really liked that we all seem to want to speak clearly and speak freely. I think. And I like people with thick skin (does that always go with hard heads?). I love that someone else believes women can be opinionated and judgmental with each other and discuss the various angles on the dangle without the discussion turning south. From what I've been seeing. That's pretty cool. Count our blessings.

Val, I like that you think weren't judging. My only criticism is that Sarah Palineque arguments don't work. Throwing something up on the wall to see if it sticks doesn't mean it is valid.

Not that I couldn't see the connection between creativity and free time but I asked where was the correlation on quantity.

DD's grade 1 class had a publishing party a few weeks ago. I was shocked when I read her work. It was amazingly creative and I have no idea where she pulled things. The dialogue, how she told the story. So somehow my overscheduled little girl is developing her creativity.

But my question is not tongue in cheek. I really want to hear what people say and think.

That is why I post.

Ren

So I did google and I got that creativity is linked to outdoor free time. Not inside free time.

Ren

Google "boredom is good for kid's."

And, no. I didn't just know that.

I saw a mother say "I think being bored is good for my kid's. I intentionally tell them I'm not responsible for their boredom they are.". I'm just quoting something I read there to be clear. Nnmo

This book
http://www.amazon.com/Simplicity-Pa...appier/dp/0345507983/ref=tmm_pap_title_0

addresses the issue of unstructured free time and creativity. I would say that a link between creativity and free time would not be limited to the outdoors based on my own experience and recollections of readings in other places.

And here is another interesting link:
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/10/the-creativity-crisis.html#

This comment was in there: With intelligence, there is a phenomenon called the Flynn effect�each generation, scores go up about 10 points. Enriched environments are making kids smarter. With creativity, a reverse trend has just been identified and is being reported for the first time here: American creativity scores are falling.

This article is really interesting. The comments about what is happening in China compared to here and their creativity totally disputes some of the opinions here and worth reading.

Also it says that creativity is born out of "deep research". The arts are not enough. And probably why outdoor play does correlate well. When we were out in the woods making forts and making play out of what we found you had to be creative. But I cannot send DD out alone to play, not here. But she does get some during the summer at the beach. This really makes me think.

Ren

I think the author of Simplicity parenting might address the indoor/outdoor issue by talking about the abundance of stuff typical Ameican kids have inside their homes/rooms--generally plastic crap and way too much of it that can only be played with in very particular ways. Kids aren't making forts etc. inside because they are too overwhelmed with all of the stuff inside. When we remove the excess and allow them unstructured free time they can be creative in that way inside.

Creativity can't only be gotten by what a book or a google page says . The idea behind "playing outside" is more relevant, I think. I'm with deacongirl.

LOL, should we try to get funding?

Good one Grinity.

For the study, not just someone's opinion:

http://www.childrenandnature.org/uploads/Kellert_BuildingforLife.pdf

The Simplicity parenting book was not a study but just some guy putting out his ideas to make money. Sarah Palin also wrote such a book. I am not saying either one doesn't have something to say but NOT A STUDY.

The interesting thing about the Newsweek article is the discussion of documented studies of creativity analysis.

And perhaps the Simplicity author would jump on the whole outside thing because the guy sounds like a clever marketer. But I do agree that it is about stuff. That is what the whole outdoor thing was about. Using what you find and making it work instead of finding the stuff you have to use. I remember an Elmo's world episode of some kids in Africa finding scrap wire and bending it into these trucks they played with and I thought that kids in America don't get the chance to do that. A couple of years ago some kids made this elaborate castle on the beach and found all these twigs and made suspension bridges, it was so creative.

When Dd and I go through the woods in the evening with the dog, I find that she gets so creative in things she finds and pretends and works with them. Something she never does with her free time and Barbies or free time and drawing.

I found the articles enlightening and answered questions for me so I hope others find them useful. I find the concept of creativity in the Newsweek article changes my perspective on the subject.

Ren

Like the tv says on that cartoon network commercial,"get up, get up, get up. Be a player. Inactive activities on a glorious day. Foul!".
Nancy Chaun's daughters were quoted as saying, "American kid's parents say they let them find themselves and their own passion, but all they find is the tv.". Lol. And sOmeone here mentioned they're a teacher and the over-engaged (asian) kid's were creative and curious because they had a huge database of knoweledge to build from."
I'm just writing what to add fuel to the fire, not necessarily what I believe.

What I believe is that I respond and make my own choices differently based on my circumstances and what I know at the time. For example I would parent my babies differently if we lived in a city because our lifestyle would be different. Plus things change as we and the kid's grow older. That's what I believe. Wren I think it's great you can afford to live in the city and give your daughter an active lifestyle. I feel like i know you good enough to feel u aren't competitive enough to judge me for living in the country and sitting home with the kid's. We just got different circumstances. Fwiw I get the feeling that you play with your kid like a bossy protective older kid sister. That's not unhealthy. What's unhealthy is when you start seeing your kid like a project to be finished rather than a family member to be lived with.

Oh yeah, we're talking about free time. Oops. I get so sidetracked. Last night I scraped left over chili and biscuits onto a paper plate to feed the dogs. I walked to the cabinet to get some bread heels to add to it. On the way to the cabinet I threw away the paper plate to clear the table. Cheengaw.

ummmm...I am well aware the book I referred to is not a study. However it resonated with me personally and addressed the issue being discussed. Clever marketer or not, his ideas may be helpful to other parents on this forum. Really don't get the need to bring Palin into this conversation?

Clearly kids need more time outside, the whole nature deficit thing, etc. etc. My only point was that if kids aren't surrounded by stuff in their rooms, that they will also have to "use what you find and make it work instead of finding the stuff you have to use". That unstructured free time without being surrounded by all of the stuff marketed to our kids allows them to use creativity to address boredom. And since, for various reasons, I think most of us would agree that most of our kids don't get enough time outside, it might make sense to evaluate how to change the environment inside.

I like what you wrote eema. And La Texican, you made me laugh with your dog feeding story. Thanks.

Now my dog is barking to go play with her friends and climb the dog run fence and chase squirrels while I go chase her.

Then we have a Philharmonic Young people concert -- because we are city folk.

Ren

?Even your dog gets playdates, spoiled i tell you. Just kidding. I've lived around ny before. I know the culture. Now I live in Texas and my dogs have a job. It's to keep illegals out of the yard since I live in the country. My current dogs are not treated like fur kids. I play fetch with the Mamma dog sometimes. And the boy plays in the yard with them sometimes and comes in smelling like a dog and going straight to the bathtub. But they're just yard dogs. They get SAMs club dogfood, not puppy biscotti. -<3

I guess there's a little room for debate here. I mean, not really much. But I could probably find room for debate on a strand of silk. There's a, what's a metaphorical story called, like a allegory or something?
A pottery teacher divided his class in half. He told half the class to make only one pot. Be creative and make a single masterpiece. The other half he told to make a million different pots, don't worry about the quality or originality. Who came up with a masterpiece? Well, who had more ideas, more practices, and more chances?
But in historical reality the creative genuises whose inventions change the world often come from single mothers, abusive fathers, blah, blah feel inspired.

Grasping at straws to build a controversy over the definition of free time-
Does an over privileged city child have free time because they get fresh air, sunshine, and time to daydream or chat on the bus ride to the philharmonic?
Does a minimalist stay at home kid have more free time because the one income household gives them more time with mommy, less time in the daycare, but less gas money to go places? Is it better to have less clutter and imaginative handmade toys? Or less clutter and a variety of toys and activities? (in the stay-at home version)
Does a neglected latch-key kid really have "free time" when really they're just surviving but without resources or reason to dream? It might produce some diamonds.
Is fresh air and sunshine really that good? It gives me allergies. And dirt roads ruin the bearings on my skateboard. Pave the planet!

Oh yeah, city kid's meet more strangers. Surely that plants seeds of creativity in one's mind.

No bus to Lincoln Center, it is only 3 blocks. So she doesn't even get that time to daydream.

I do believe that being a survivor does train the brain to be more creative. Though, how did my spoiled dog learn to climb the fence like a monkey?

Everyone, have a good weekend.

Ren

This is cracking me up, I always cringed at all the plastic crap my kids would get from relatives at Christmas and birthdays. Somehow though, I think many kids are innately programmed to be creative despite sometimes stifling parenting, and all the plastic junk. Several examples come to mind beyond the common experience of the kid preferring to play with the cardboard box than with whatever came inside it.

One summer we stayed at a hotel while visiting grandma, grandma showered the girls with really nice expensive dolls and toys but my 2 year-old spent the whole time playing with the little shampoo bottles from the hotel bath, she gave them names and personalities and made clothing for them out of the wrapping paper from the gifts. I asked her later why she preferred the shampoo bottles to the pretty dolls and she explained that she could make them be whatever/whoever she wanted to whereas the dolls were already "done" by someone else and that was no fun.

Another time I tried to organize my kids room: I bought neat under-bed boxes for each toy type and told my girls I expected them to pick one thing to play with at a time and put it away before taking out another box. After nap-time (my nap-time) I was appalled to finad that they had everything out at once. I demanded an explanation and they showed me their masterpiece, explaining that in order to play with Barbies, they needed the blocks to build the palace for Barbie's ball, the legos were absolutely necessary to make colorful furniture for inside the palace, colored construction paper was required for fancy rugs and of course the remote control tonka truck was required to bring Barbie to the palace in style, oh, and dress up jewelry had to be used to decorate the palace if it was to be believable...etc etc(!)

Another day I opened the girls bedroom door and found the whole room (wall to wall and floor to ceiling fan) had been turned into a giant 3 dimensional spider web with the knitting yarn tied around absolutely everything, my 3 yr old had worked on it all night and was very proud of herself. Since the little one never slept more than 4 hours a night, I guess she had more than enough free time no matter how much structure I crammed into the day.

We woke one morning when my son was 3 or 4 to find a similar structure extending all the way from our front door to our back door and covering half the width of the house. It was composed of long intertwined strands of tractor-feed printer paper chads. He had painstakingly separated them from 4 reams of paper. He explained that it was a burglar alarm system since you couldn't open a door or window or walk through the house without tearing at least one of the perforated strands, and the noise would alert us to the danger.

Ah, well after reading the article's definition of creativity, you win since your son's project actually had some "usefulness" to it ;-)

If that's what creativity is then I don't like it at all. Recently my boy dumped his sister's whole bottle of baby powder on the Christmas tree to make snow.

How did the cleaning go?

Just popped back to say, nah. We really love our free time. Didnt start it for the creativity angle, never thought about it till this thread. Won't be angling for it either. We went to collect rocks to peer through the loupe today. It's fun just hanging out.

When I was 6 I used my mom's contact lenses to finish my model car's headlights. This was back when they were REALLY expensive.

She was and was not amused.

I was wondering how much free time does the typical 5 or 6 year old get every week? To clarify, I include in this definition any unstructured activity (not led by adults), such as the play time in the pool with friends or on playdates or unstructured kid events where they run around wild. We homeschool and it feels like we have way too much creative play time, LOL, and could use at least a little more of that "Chinese mom" approach.

Mine is at school, not riding the bus. There's about an hour between waking and leaving for school, then four hours between school and bed. 2 1/2 of those hours are taken up with getting ready for school or bed or eating, so 2 1/2 hours a day free on a weekday, then all day Saturday and Sunday. They get some free time at school (it's kindergarten) about 1 1/2 hours a day.

About the same for my six-year-old, except she does gymnastics and dance class (two hours per week total). She walks 50 feet from school to dance class, and gymnastics is two blocks from school, so no time is lost to driving (this is deliberate on our part).

Oh, homework time is minimal.

Build a fort with cardboard boxes. It is cool. from DS10

Wow, thanks, next time dd5 complains I am "torturing" her for asking her to spend 10 minutes on handwriting (and that only happens about once a week) I'll tell her what would happen if she were in school.

Also adding duct tape as another preferred medium for kid creations. It turns out you can get duct tape in various colors and designs and goes well with cardboard, packing peanuts, and other similar things. My dd chose to spend the $75 she won at a spelling bee a couple of years ago to buy things at Home Depot of all places, and she got bricks, little tiles, screws, hinges, and many other similar things. We also have all sorts of rocks, marbles, sea shells, and small toys in a large tub full of colored sand for amazing pretend plays. What I found helped her creativity in art at least was to banish all coloring books from the house, so she can create her own vision of the world rather than coloring within the lines. She's not the best artist, but she is creative.