My 16 year old son is a junior at an Ivy League school. He started taking college classes when he was 12 and he enrolled as a full time student at a local private college when he was 14. He has been around college students for the past four years and so he is quiet comfortable around them. The college students seem very comfortable around him, also. Evidence of this is they take him out to dinner, study with him, go dancing with him, some of his local friends have traveled to his new college to visit him, etc. The girls in particular, really seem to like him. He can often be found in the middle of a group of girls studying; there are many high five's given to him from his professors and male students.

Up until recently, my son took all this in good stride. But last April, he met a female senior, and the two of them hit it off instantly. I was quiet aware she was in a different category in my son's eyes than the other girls. At first, I wasn't too concerned because she was a senior and therefore was soon to be graduating, she was engaged, and my son was headed out of state to a new college. I also figured since she was 23, I didn't have anything to worry about. What 23 year old woman would find a 16 year old boy attractive?

Well things changed fast. She started spending all her time with my son, and if they weren't physically together, they were texting each other. They were holding hands and snuggling together, even in front of my husband and me. Soon she broke off her engagement and though she said she understood they were just friends, she tried to kiss my son. She is now traveling 5 hours each way to visit him at school.

Obviously, my concern is her age. Yet, in every other circumstance in life, my son is light years ahead of his same-aged peers. Should I treat him like an average 16 year old here? Or should I treat him as a college student? He is a really good kid. He talks to me about so many issues and he really seems to have his head on straight. I always knew his first girlfriend would be a college student, but I figured an 18 or 19 year old. This woman, though delightful, is a college graduate. I am not sure how to handle this. I am inclined to let him make his own decisions, but when I think of my younger daughter dating an older guy, I know I would threaten to call the police. Is this different because of his unique circumstances?

Hi lovemylife.

Wow, this is a hard one. I don't really have any answer, but thought I'd offer my own experience (though I am a women).

I met a man when I was 17 who was 10 years my senior. We had a really fulfilling relationship until a year later when I met my husband, also 10 years my senior - who I have now been with for 13 years, married to for 10. Both these men are also extremely intelligent, so they were probably still more mature than most men their age, even at that stage. My husband and I are still very happy. I was simply never attracted to guys my age or interested in what they had to say.

Having said that I would go by your gut - not thinking about her age, does this woman seem to genuinely care about your son and have his interests at heart? Or is there something (other than age), perhaps in her behaviours, that makes you think that this is not quite right?

And perhaps it's worth just letting your son know your concerns and then (if you don't think there is anything too significant to worry about), leave him to it. If you do have strong concerns then that is another matter and one I don't know I feel qualified to speak about.

Others might have different views to mine and if I was in your circumstance, despite my experience, I suspect I would still have some concerns too. But these kids are so different to the norm. I'm certainly not as smart as your son, but even for me - I just couldn't have countenanced having a relationship with someone my age or close to it. To me they just seemed so young (and frankly, clueless)!

IMHO if someone tells me their 16 year old is going out with a 23 year old I see all kinds of red flags. Think back to when you were 23, would you go out with a 16 year old boy? Even if he was really smart and mature? These kids are different than other kids, but it doesn't mean they are adults. Personally I think there's something wrong with the 23 year old and I would want her not to be dating my son, not to mention is this even legal? Protect your child please

I dated much older girls through high school and college.

There was a big difference between 1-3 years and 4-6 years difference. A huge difference.

Most of the older women were much more worldly than I was and they wanted some things I was not emotionally prepared to do nor could really understand.

I was intellectually mature and socially poised, but I was still a boy inside until I was 19.( When I look back, I have to laugh at some those moments!! )

Fortunately, they were stable, wonderful women. It would have been easy for them to manipulate me, but that never occurred. But that does not mean it won't here.

On the surface of it, the age difference is a red flag. She should know and have boundaries. She also entered into an engagement she was not ready for. Another indicator she does not have boundaries. And a five hour commute? That seems rather obsessive. And then there is the rebound aspect. I also wonder if she has any female friends as they would be all over her.

The fact she "tried to kiss" him (rather than "Mom, we made-out.") means he is still growing up and is not ready for this. If he was somewhat prepared for this, he'd have dated several girls already as he would have sought them out due to his own internal longing.

Then there is the Statutory aspect. Some jurisdictions take a very dim view of this. Most of the states in the NE are 16, but a few are 17 and a few are 18. One car trip and one traffic stop and one typical NYC cop and you've got a boy in love with a woman in jail who is now a future registered sex offender. The latter fact will ruin her life forever. She is at the greatest risk here - again she is not able to judge risks.

For individual protection, they just need to agree to be friends.

In the end, if you had to, you could have your lawyer draft a letter to her indicating the statutory aspects, or you could talk to her. You need to keep in mind that anyone else you talk to about this could take it to the police later so you may want to be careful whom you consult with.

One of the hardest parts of parenting is being willing to be the bad guy and make our kids temporarily unhappy when we see warning signs.

You see warning signs, or it wouldn't have worried you enough to post.

Be the momma bear on this one. He may not like you for it now, but it probably is best for both of them.

Does he live at home or does he live on campus?

It is odd, but your son is a College Junior and She was just recently a College Senior. That's only a 2 year 'academic life experience' gap.

I think that best thing to do is get to know her and she what she's all about. See if you can get her to talk about her previous love relationships and childhood. And trust your gut. Our kids are unusual enough that they may not find many people in this world that they want to be that close to.

Everyone always says that 'girls mature earlier than boys' - and I do think that this is true in general from birth to puberty. But from my recent observations as mom of a 14 year old son, I think that once puberty hits, girls start to lag in the maturity department, particularly in comparison to boys who are coping well. Maybe boys are more of a bimodal distribution?

As a teenaged girl I couldn't stand my agemates from age 12 to about 20 with a few wonderful exceptions. There was a much wider group of boys I could interact with. Then around age 20 females started becoming interesting people again in larger numbers. I almost can't find a female over age 30 that I can't have at least one good conversation with. So there you have it: a bit of a wander, but I think that after puberty, boys mature faster.

BTW - Welcome - I'm so glad you found us! (How did you find us?)
Part of me wonders if you have some local friends you can talk this sort of thing over with, or if you've been isolated as a Mother. Generally we Mothers are going to have feeling about the first girl that our sons become involved with, so it's good to have a chance, here or in real life to talk to other Moms who have gone through this milestone.

It's so hard to know how negative you'd feel about any young lady your son is 'head over heels' with... ((hugs))
Grinity

For reasons that are not yet clear to me, this particular post and its responses have been niggling at me all day and I felt I had to come back and say more.

I absolutely get that caution needs to be taken in such an instance and for me, from your post the issues I see are how stable this woman is and how keen your son actually is (is he keen, or has she just imposed herself on him for example?) These are not questions I can possibly know the answers to, but I suspect deep down, you've got a pretty good inkling whether this is a good thing or not (and I don't mean to imply that it is one or the other - none of us can know. You know your son, you know this girl, you know the full story).

What concerns me about the 'you have to put your foot down' approach to this is that if your son really is very keen on this girl you risk the evidently very close relationship you have. This isn't underage drinking, this isn't illegal activity, this isn't not getting your school work done - all instances where I see it as an appropriate place as a parent for me to say 'not good enough' and follow up with whatever consequences are appropriate. This is something much more important - your son's feelings, his emotions - maybe his first love. Much more fragile. You can't just ask him to switch that off and get over it (which I know you're not saying you'd do - this is more in reference to some of the subsequent comments). If someone had done that to me it wouldn't have stopped me seeing the older man I was in a relationship with - instead I would have just done it behind my family's back and been in a much more dangerous position had it all fallen apart.

I'm not saying tell him to go for it and forget the consequences. I'm just saying that this needs much more tact. Your son might not have any idea about how he feels, he might not be as keen as this girl and need some guidance on what to do - or might feel the same way as her and seems to be taking things fairly slowly, which he should be commended for.

If you do have some really strong concerns then you need to intervene, but I'd think carefully about the best way to handle it (and of course, as Austin mentioned, both he and the girl need to be aware of any legal consequences).

I absolutely agree with Grinity (as I so often find that I do!) Talk to the girl, find out more about anything you're worried about. Talk to your son. And listen to your gut.

I agree with Austin - this woman is suspect. I also agree with Kvmum that this is tricky territory and could compromise your relationship with your son. That's unfortunate and should be considered, but I think it's secondary to protecting your son from this woman.

Your son is at an Ivy League school, I suspect this indicates emotional maturity as well as academic excellence - the Ivy didn't have to take him, whereas a state school might if he met minimum requirements. Everything you say about your son supports this.

For your son, it is "normal" to socialize with older people (and I think it's a testament to your son's emotional health and maturity that he has been successful at this). Because that has been his perspective for several years, it's natural that a different type of relationship with an older individual wouldn't seem so strange to him. And maybe under certain circumstances it wouldn't be. However, this young woman has NOT been in a situation where it is "normal" for her to socialize with people 7 years her junior.

We all want to support our children's advanced intellectual (and in your son's case, emotional) ages. But this is possibly something different. I don't want to Google "pedophile" at work, but I suggest you do so. Look at the cases of young attractive teachers who have sexual relations with male students. They are attractive, normal-seeming woman.

If I were in your shoes I'd start by looking very, very carefully at this woman's background. What is her current job? What have her prior jobs been (sleep-away camp counselor would be a red flag for me)? Does she have a typical number of female friend on Facebook (Austin makes an excellent point about this). Where are her parents and siblings? Are any or all of the siblings estranged from the parents? It's is not unsavory to snoop in this case. This is a special circumstance.

If you said that your son had girlfriends before I would be marginally less concerned. But he might be feeling self conscious about his lack of experience and that may make him more vulnerable. The fact that he told you that she "tried" to kiss him seems like a red flag. If that happened to me when I was 16 I would have with kissed back or extricated myslef from the relationship. I wouldn't have told my mom. Maybe he's needing you to be the bad guy.

P.S. If you feel bad about snooping think about that teacher who had sex with a 12 y.o., then had his baby, and then married him after she got out of jail. Or the teacher who manipulated several of her male students to kill her husband. Sure, your son might be smarter and more mature than those kids, but I wouldn't count on that making him safe. He's still 16. He probaby doesn't even have a driver's license yet and she's a college grad.

ETA - Maybe this is the wrong forum to suggest having/not having a driver's license as evidence of readiness for something!

At first I was shocked and thought... what would a 23 yr. old want with a 16 yr. old, then I thought... that's not even legal, and then I thought.... Does she KNOW he's 16? Perhaps she suspects he is older since he is a junior and perhaps he didn't want to tell her how old her was because he was interested in her and wanted her to like HIM before he told her how old he really was? Not sure if that's a possibility but it did cross my mind. Not sure how long they have been "hanging out" but the fact that she was engaged and no longer is would make me question a few things. Did she break off the engagement because of you DS? Was she no longer engaged when she started talking to DS? I would definitely be skeptical. I would also step lightly on how you approach your concerns. Seeing as he does think on a higher intellectual level than his chrono. age, it's still a concern. Again, as others have stated, you are the parent and sometimes have to play the role of the bad guy vs. being a "friend" to your child. Find out what you can and go with your gut.

This is a good article that touches on the subject:
http://talentdevelop.com/articles/sexhighlygftd.html

I would explain to your son that it would be a mature and caring act for him to look at backing off from this relationship in order to protect her from some potentially devastating consequences.

When I was 15, I went on a cruise with a friend's family. During the course of this cruise, a 23-year-old man decided he was in love with me. Why? Because of my intellectual maturity. That I could hold up conversations with him that very few people could. He tried to call me once I left the ship quite a few times, and my parents put their foot down. And, I am glad they did. I was not ready, emotionally, for things a 23 year old man wanted (not just talking physical intimacy). And to be honest, it shook me up long-term. I lost a lot of the confidence I'd once had about being able to handle all situations. I got nervous about flirting, because I didn't intend to have a man that age think that way about me.

I know 15 is not 16. And I am actually ok with even the idea of a 21 year old dating a 26 year old, lets say. But, I do think there are huge leaps in reality in those teenage years. And, I think a young man can be confused and flattered by having an older woman attracted to him. I agree with many people who say this is a subject to tread carefully on, but I wanted to give the perspective of someone who was in a similar situation.

I am not against an intense relationship with an adult. I formed a very strong intellectual bond with an adult when I was 13.

But what is appropriate and not appropriate? Email, meeting in public, hanging out with friends?

I just caution that he take it slow. In 18 months he will have a different perspective. I know I did. And the legal system will, too.

If she gets obsessive, then it is a different ball game.


I was approached by a pedophile when I was much younger. Pedophiles are predatory and exploitative. This woman does not sound like it. She is very open about her feelings and her relationship. Furthermore, the young man is functioning in an adult setting.



Obsessive. The pedophile who was after me was the same way.

On the other hand, my mentor when I was 13 asked to meet my mom after we met at a video game parlor. She was there and they talked for a while. He was very careful to set boundaries and make sure he was above reproach. An adult will do that.

Diane Lane said pretty much the same thing in one of her interviews.

It may be a terrible idea, but perhaps showing him this thread would help him see his situation from the various perspectives of some insightful adults. It would at least put some of your concerns on the table for him to consider.

That's a toughie because on one hand you have to be supportive of your growing son's chance to make his own decisions in life, even mistakes. On the other hand he is only sixteen and he wouldn't be ahead academically without the support of his family. It's very important that he not jeopardize his future with bad decisions this close to graduating. At sixteen I would be open to being emotionally supportive in case the relationship turned sour, but I wouldn't be very worried about it. Who marries their first sweetheart? It's rare. And heartache is a right of passage. I would worry at this point about an unhealthy or high-pressure relationship where they're moving too fast twords "engagement" or a family or an unhealthy relationship where his time becomes exclusively monopolized. Of course they will spend a lot of time togeather. That's not what I mean. You know what I mean.

I'm back again (I'll try and leave it alone now!!) Hear, hear to Mae's idea and to La Texan (who managed to say what I've been thinking much, much more succinctly than I). This weekend just gone I read this great quote from a woman (who is a gifted musician) who by her own admission had a somewhat wayward teen period (not suggesting this is the case here, just by explanation) who has turned out to be very successful and seemingly well adjusted. She talked about her very strong relationship with her parents, who always said to her "never go so far you can't come back". For kids of this age (and in instances like this) I actually think this is some of the possible advice you can give.

Right... will leave it alone now!

This is a very interesting thread, that has me looking back at my relationships. I am not as gifted as your son, but I have to say that I always felt much older than I was. I truly didn't feel my age and almost all of my friends were older than I was. No one I have ever dated was less than two years older than me and I truly felt the same age as they were. Obviously, looking back now, especially as a parent, I see risks with that. But, I think the only thing that kept me from a really overwhelming situation was logic. I was very aware of what the consequences of certain actions would be, long term. And so I would suggest having an open, warm, concerned talk with your son that balances both the emotional and logic. Tell him that you trust his instincts and that you can see why he would be so interested in this woman. And then carefully state your concerns. He seems, from what you said, mature enough to take your comments and process them. See what he thinks of the conversation. And then, if things still concern you in a few weeks, readdress it with him. But give him the chance to take ownership of the situation. BTW: you haven't said if he is living at home with you or if he is living on his own at college. If he is living at home you obviously can have more control of the relationship.

Like other posters, the thing that concerns me the most is the woman herself. The main red flag IMHO is that she was engaged to someone when she began having a relationship with your son. If she did that to her fiance, then your son should be aware that she could easily do that to him. Again, I think this is something you might *carefully* mention to your DS as something he should take into account. You might mention that he should be on the look out for other things about this woman, like her friends. And, I would definitely make him aware of the laws about relationships between teenagers and adults. If he decides that he'd like to get to know this woman better, then you may just have to trust him, right up until the point that you see something unacceptable, and then you will need to get more forcefull with your opinions.

I dated a few 21 year old guys when I was 16, and by senior year of high school (17) I was in love with a guy who was 22. We stayed together for over 2 years and were very serious. None of these relationships got physically intimate until after I graduated high school and turned 18. It seemed like boys my own age were children, and though I tried going out with a couple of them, it was far less personally meaningful and far more about the "couple" image we projected at school.

Funny, when I first read this thread, I was alarmed and taken aback, coming at it from the perspective of a parent. Life can really come back and kick you in the butt sometimes!

My final thought though, is that they should give him a couple years and then see if a romantic relationship is something they both want. If it's meant to be, it can wait.