My DD8 in 4th grade (skipped 2nd) is starting to struggle with getting information down on paper. 4th grade is a big year for writing in Florida and she has never much liked writing, so this is starting to become a real problem, and I'm looking for any and all advice.

I think I see a couple of issues. Firstly, she is the youngest student in the class and is struggling with the sheer volume of writing. She has an odd pencil grip (similar to mine in fact) and despite learning cursive last year in 3rd grade she is not comfortable with it, so handwriting is on the slow side. We also have the ever constant perfectionism, so she considers sloppy handwriting unacceptable and I'm not sure I want her to follow in my illegible tracks anyway.

But those are relatively minor technical issues - I think the biggie is that she just can't figure out how to get the stuff in her head down on paper the way she wants it (that rotten perfectionism, again). On the last math test, one of the questions was an "Explain . . " type question. She simply wrote "No!" for her answer. When we discussed the math problem it prompted a meltdown about how she doesn't know how to explain the math - I think she's making it too hard. She does claim to understand that the purpose of those questions is to show general understanding, not necessarily the underlying math theory, she just can't figure out how to explain it; she can't even explain it to me verbally. On the regular writing assignments she spends much of her time thinking rather than writing and is headed toward flat out avoidance.

The big writing test they are practicing for is a 45-minute window based on a prompt - the most recent practice was "My favorite possession" with a goal of basically filling a single sheet of notebook paper front and back. This is not an exercise that allows for much drafting and editing; it's more like a quasi-organized brain dump. And its something incorporated into almost every facet of class work, so I expect the pressure to continue to ratchet up.

I've seen several people mention bottlenecks with high GAI and lower processing speed and/or working memory. My DD is very even across the board between VCI, PRI and PSI in the high 130's, with a slightly lower WM at 120. Our bottleneck is the translation onto paper. Some of this is simple asynchrony, some of it is resistance from DD, and some of it is that her brain just works so much faster than she can output, but it's a necessary component of this school year.

We are trying to crank up some journaling, with no review by parents or teachers, just so she is practicing putting words on paper. Postivite reinforcement for the effort with an expectation of one page (about a half-size notebook page) each day. I know that practice doing it is one of the best ways to build the habit, but any other tricks of the trade would be most welcome.

I have no suggestions for your big picture situation, but I do have a suggestion for helping your DD cope with the "explain" math problem you describe.

When my kids had interviews for a gifted program I prepped them by describing to them a "Cliff Clavin" answer. Which references (obviously!) Cliff's final Jeopardy answer of "Who are three people who have never been in my kitchen?"

In case you are not as old as me Cliff Clavin was a know-it-all character on the tv series Cheers who appeared on Jeopardy in one episode. He had a huge lead going into final Jeopardy and didn't need to wager anything to win. But, being Cliff, he bet it all and lost with his response of "Who are three people who have never been in my kitchen?" to the answer Tony Curtis, Cary Grant, and Lucille Ball (or something like that).

I described the episode to my kids with a great degree of drama and emphasized the fact that it was indeed true that those people had never been in Cliff Clavin's kitchen.
I encouraged my kids to come up with their own "Cliff Clavin" answers if they didn't know where to start with something or were stumped. Bright kids are usually capable of coming up with Cliff Clavn answers that contain enough information to demonstrate knowledge.

Does she do better typing than writing? Has she ever received help with handwriting? I know your question is more about processing speed, but with my same age dd, getting her more comfortable with the methods of output has increased her composition speed.

For the writing issue, I highly recommend keyboarding. My fourth grade dd has an issue with handwriting as well, and she recently learned to type, and I've already noticed a difference in her creative writing (that she does at home just for fun, silly stories).

She is allowed to type in her montessori classroom - they have little devices called Alphasmarts or something - and they also have access to the computer room at some times. So I'm hopeful that soon she'll be typing most of her more lengthy written output.

In contrast to your dd, my dd has slow-er processing speed. She also has slow motor output. Her overall processing speed was average, but her coding subtest on the WISC was around the 25th percentile. The coding subtest requires more motor output. When we had her tested, the psych recommended keyboarding.

There are a number of free on-line programs for learning typing. My dd liked this one: http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/typing/levels/level1.shtml

I don't know about the math issue - sounds like something a visual-spatial learner might have trouble with. Somewhere along the way, perhaps even on these boards, I saw one piece of advice that might help. When she has to explain, maybe she could think to herself what she might say if she was trying to teach the problem to another child.

Your post brought tears to my eyes. My 5yo daughter's processing speed is in the 99.9th percentile and so is mine. All of my life I have struggled with this. When your brain moves this fast it is extremely difficult to stop and write things down that you don't even realize you have processed. This is especially true for math. I could always get the correct answer but I could never explain it or show you every step. Every math teacher I had marked me down for that. As for writing forget it. I would rather curl up in a ball on the floor and cry. I always did well in English but it was painful. I think fear of failure played a big part in that. All my life my parents thought I was being a pain in the rear. For me showing my work and writing essays was physically painful. We didn't know until I was an adult that it was due to my processing speed.

As to how to deal with it, I not sure. I hope I can figure this out before it becomes and issue with my daughter. I think there will be a lot of discussions with her teachers. I will also push for some accommodations for her. In the same way kids with lower processing speeds get more time for tests.

It is important to remember that this is not a choice for her. Forcing her to be mainstream may never work.

Thanks so much everyone for the suggestions so far. I agree that the keyboarding will probably help in general, but I don't think it's going to help with the in class writing requirement and the testing. I don't see how I can get a special accomodation like keyboard access with no recognized disability, but I will do some asking around - the worst that happens is they say 'no'. It is something we've dabbled in a little at home, but probably need to put in some effort to build comfort and speed.

Lisa, based on your experience do you have any suggestions for how I can help my DD with this? I'm willing to accept that this just is going to be a bottleneck and she may not be all that successful in the regular classroom context, but I'd like to try to find a way so that it is not outright painful. What strategies did you use?

DD is already quite non-mainstream - strongly introverted, very tempermental, intense OEs, particularly emotional, distracted, resistant, opinionated, etc. and functioning in a regular classroom is an effort already. I'm looking for coping tools for her to handle the demands and expectations of that mainstream environment. Our other educational options are extremely limited.

Typing saved the day for our son, too. I once described his situation as having a huge bottleneck of information at the tip of his pencil.

In preparing to write, he'd talk a mile a minute about the topic, with wonderful detail, examples -- everything. But when he started scratching the pencil on paper, he'd end up with, "See Spot run."

In third grade, when we switched to typing for all writing assignments at home, he really opened up and his ideas and personality finally made it to the page. For whatever reason, the work at home also helped him improve his handwritten work at school.

Now in 6th grade, his typing speed has improved considerably and his writing has blossomed. Still working on the penmanship -- but we'll take what we can get.

Hi Prissy - just writing to say that you're not alone. We're dealing with almost exactly the same thing! I only wish I knew what might help! After much soul searching and research, we've decided on an online writing program and keyboarding. One of the things that we're also trying is the use of very explicit instructions laid out in quite a mathematical formula. For example... instead of an open-ended writing prompt that J is expected to write 1.5 pages... I've broken this down into specific guidelines:
* write 5 paragraphs
* each paragraph must have 5 sentences
* each paragraph must have 5 interesting and descriptive adjectives
* each paragraph must have 1 compound sentence

And so on. A friend also put my onto http://ywp.nanowrimo.org/workbooks J's teacher is looking at the workbook this weekend. I quite like the story arcs and I think they might help J understand more about structure.

Anyway, love to hear more about works for others...

jojo

jojo- Thanks for the suggestion. I will have to put that in my book of tricks. I would have loved explicit instructions for writing.

Prissy- I can't reply thoroughly at the moment. I will be back.

ps. While we've only been working with this online writing program for a few days ... the other point I would emphasise is that it's helpful to look for ways to build stamina and persistence with writing. We've chosen one story a week, with a minimum of 5 sessions. In fact - our whole theme is 5 - 5 paragraphs, 5 sentences in each para, 5 adjectives, etc. Attacking it over a few days has also helped J bring out her inner editor ...

jojo

Prissy-
I am also in FL so I understand about the writing load this year. My 11 yo daughter is having difficulties with written expression & is just now beginning to do homework on computer, etc. When she was in 4th, however, she had been prepared by her previous teachers to "draw" her thoughts before she wrote them down. Her 2nd grade teacher called it a "quickdraw" & they did this everyday on the left side (back) of a notebook page & then wrote directly across on the right side. I had no idea at the time dd11 had difficulty expressing her thoughts; I am now convinced this technique got her through the FCAT.
I will also say this: The school she attends generally has high writing scores. They are excellent at teaching writing in a formula. I'm not so sure how I feel about that.
I now am having dd11 evaluated for dysgraphia, dyslexia or something along those lines so that she can have accommodations written into a 504 plan. Someone else in this forum pointed me to this article: http://www.dyslexicadvantage.com/stealth-dyslexia-gifted-with-dyslexia.html & I've also found interesting information here: http://www.education.com/reference/article/Ref_Dysgraphia_Quick/ There are a lot of links from that page that I found helpful. It's interesting how difficulties in written expression are so hard to pinpoint.
I have been pushing for help for my daughter for 3+ years now. She is one of those whose grades are too high, who is not a behavior problem, etc., etc. Her most obvious problem was spelling, but I knew something else was up. If your daughter needs accommodations to function in the classroom, don't take no for an answer. Like everyone says, be your child's advocate!