Once we get our DD9 Explore test results, depending on the outcome of course, I have planned to have her tested for IQ. She has had testing such as the CogAt and Cognitive Skills Index, which she has scored "exceptional" ranges, but has never had a formal IQ type test. I hope to find more information on her strengths and weaknesses and also help with our DYS application (again, if her Explore scores qualify)along with school advocation.

Anyway, we have two Universities nearby that offer testing for gifted students and also for gifted students with learning disabilities for a nominal fee. It is unclear which tests they use and I assume the students will conduct the tests under supervision. Any thoughts on this type of testing vs. a psychologist? I look at the cost vs. benefits and I'm not sure which way would be better. The nearest reputable psychologist is a 2-3 hour drive from us and would likely be very expensive. Has anyone here had good results with a University testing center? Which test would be good for a highly verbal child? Thanks

Jen

WISC is definitely your test, no doubt about it. I'd be very surprised if anyone recommends anything else. On the bright side, this is also the cheaper of the two main tests, since it requires a lot shorter time to administer.

My one worry with the cheapie student testing is that they might be looking for LDs, not for GT. You want to be sure they don't start the test too low or stop too early, that the tester is aware of GT behavior and knows how to get the best, most complete performance from the child.

I think if you can get this from a student tester, then more power to you, but I also think it's harder to get these things from someone not experienced at GT testing. It's a trade-off.

Worst case scenario, you try the student testing, and if you don't think the results are accurate, you test again with the psychologist. <shrug> It's a minor gamble, but if the first test gives you what you need, you save yourself the trip and the cash!

Excellent points, Dottie! I forgot about the "wait a year" issue, and that does make the worst-case scenario a good deal worse.

You could retest with the SB5 without waiting a year, but as someone whose child has taken the SB5, I can tell you that it does NOT favor the verbal child!

Thanks for the WISC recommendation. I'm trying to find a test that would best show me where she is IQ wise as well as allow for accommodation at school as we will need it next year.

Jen

Excellent points Dottie. One of the testing centers in our area is actually dedicated for GT students and there are also good GT programs in the summer (from what I've heard, not experienced yet) for middle school kids. I wonder about it though, if they have dealt with kids of various levels of IQs as I don't know where DD fits in that continuum.

I wish Explore would be the ultimate answer with DD. I doubt our school would be a problem, but we would need something more for DYS if that becomes necessary. Dottie, do you also think WISC would be the best test for DD? (highly gifted verbal, cognitive reasoning based on earlier tests)

Jen

Good Luck Jen,
I guess you could ask how many children they have run across who hit more than 3 ceilings on the subtests and what they reccomend for kids like that. You could even ask what score they consider 'hitting a ceiling' on a subtest. If they can maintain their composure through that without getting defensive, I think it's safe. BTW, Private message me with their location, ok? Sounds like an amazing program!

Smiles,
Grinity

Just a comment.
My 8 year old son recently tested on the WISC IV. While it was good for pointing out some significant processing and organization issues, much of the test seemed to be geared to these abilities. There is a dramatic difference in the subset scores on the untimed sections versus the timed sections. The overall Full Scale IQ seemed to me to be more weighted to the sections impacted by the processing and organization skills. In fact the tester even commented on that fact that the Full Scale scores was not a good indicator of our son's true intellectual ability.

Many others on this board are much more familiar with the tests so I'm not sure if this is a problem with all of the IQ tests or not.

I agree. The timed sections of the WISC drag down the Full Scale score. But since DYS accepts the--what do you call 'em? Composites? Subsections? This is SO not my area of expertise!--it doesn't matter so much for the purposes of applying to DYS.

Personally, I think the timed sections ought to be thrown out for the purposes of GT ID, but I'm far from a test expert (as if you couldn't tell!).

I love it, too!

What would I do without you, Dottie?!?

Hey, Dottie. Can you explain? I'm not familiar enough with the tests to know the differences in subtests. Thanks.

That's true, Dottie. Our DS took both, and it was amazing how much of an effect every subtest had on the total score. In effect, one low score knocked DS6 out of the DYS range. That seems excessive to me!

Just curious...how did his scores compare? I just find it interesting that gifted on the SB5 is 120+ but 130+ on the WISC, so I'm interested in specific cases of kids who took both.

Yes, I understand that the top 2.28 percent is 130+ on both, but why the argument for lowering to 120? I've been reading about the new tests and some proposed recommendations, but I don't understand what their reasons are. I agree with you. Percentages are percentages, regardless of the test. Unless someone can argue that the distribution is not normal or that the mean and sd are not as reported, then I don't think they have a case.

That's a plausible explanation for the lower scores. It will be very interesting to see what "research" on this will say over the next few years.

I agree with you! There's a big difference in a kid who is gifted in some areas versus a kid who is high average across the board.

Sorry to open up a can of worms here!

PP: I'm not going to be much help with the "how do they compare" question, I'm afraid, even though DS took both. He had a dismal test day with the SB5: lacking nearly 3 hours of sleep, getting the flu about 36 hours after the start of the test, and taking a Visual-Spatial test what turned out to be with a verbal kid. If we'd only neglected to feed the poor guy, it would have been about the worst-case possible for testing!

On the other hand, I think his WISC test day was a good one. If not ideal, it was pretty close. The shorter length of the WISC helped a lot, too. 3+ hours of testing is an awful lot for a 6yo! The SB5 seemed brutal in that regard!

Also, I don't have his write-up from the WISC yet, so I can't lay the scores out side-by-side yet. I do know that his PRI was 151 on the WISC, and that he seemed to be VS on the verbal test (after appearing to be verbal on the SB5!).

His Full Scale score for the SB5 was officially 134+, and I think the tester for the WISC said that it was over 140 for the WISC (though to be honest, I mostly stopped listening after I heard that he had the PRI score needed for DYS! LOL!).

However, the SB5 tester made quite a point of saying that he thought that test was not a valid indication of DS6's IQ. A more-or-less exact quote: "It looks like a borderline GT score, but he's *not* borderline. He's at least HG. It's just that we couldn't tell from this test today whether he's HG, EG or PG."

Since that was what we wanted to know--HG, EG or PG?--I was pretty disappointed with the SB5.

In general, my impression was that the SB5 was harder to score high on than the WISC, though if DS6 had been a VS kid who isn't at all GT verbally, then I might have a different take.

FWIW...which isn't much!

I'll be happy to share his complete scores next week when I have them in front of me, if you'd like. Just let me know. Since I'm pretty sure the SB5 told us nothing much, I'm not sure they'll tell you anything. But I'll share 'em if you want 'em!