My DS7 (in 1st grade) has been in a 1st/2nd grade two-way immersion (Spanish/English) blend this year. The first third of the year went pretty well, the second third was tolerable, and the last third has turned downright miserable. He still has 4 weeks left of school. (Ugh!) And I think that both DS and his teacher are really through with each other. DS has been acting out in class (making faces at the teacher when she is talking, yelling at a girl during a group exercise when she was insistently alphabetizing incorrectly for the group, not stopping a science project when it was time to stop, etc.).

As my last-ditch effort to do what I could to encourage good behavior, I tied his staying on "green" (good behavior) for the last three days to using the new Wii that we are getting tomorrow. He moved to "yellow" today, losing his Wii privilege. I was shocked. He is sooooooo eager to get a Wii, I thought for sure that he would stay on green. But now he is in bed crying himself to sleep. (Breaking my heart!!!)

So my thought at this moment is that if linking good behavior to using the Wii doesn't work, I don't know that anything will. I think he's just checked out of the situation. His teacher has done barely any acceleration and when we've requested it, she's referred me to the "Hurried Child" book. So we've gotten nowhere this year with her. (I'm doing a lot of advocacy work right now to get him into a better situation next year... otherwise we'll homeschool.)

My question to you all is... Is there any way to salvage the next four weeks? I'm soooo tempted to just pull him out and call it good for the year. But I hate to teach him to just quit when things are tough... Oh, what to do?!!!

ideas:

1. confront the teacher/bring in the principal. pose the same question you posted here: that your ds is unraveling and you want to salvage the next four weeks.

I have read on these boards if you appeal to the school based on your child's emotional health you can get a better response than when you ask them to address boredom/lack of challenge. (maybe you can tie it to your current advocacy efforts for next year?)

2. keep finding outlets for him to decompress.

I have no direct experience with this kind of situation so most of all I'll just send you virtual hugs your way and wish you the best of luck!

Hi,

I don't have any direct experience, but suspect I might find myself in your shoes if the school we have chosen for DD4 next year doesn't work out.

I did just want to share some insight from DD's tester (an ed psych specialising in gifted kids), who told us that 'it's ok to have one bad year, just don't make it two'. I guess I just mean to say is - take heart that he should be fine and I'd just do whatever you feel you have to get through these last weeks and do what you can to get a better situation for him for the next year.

I have the same concerns about pulling kids out of difficult situations - but it is also heart breaking seeing your kid so unhappy, especially when you know they are not getting the support they need. I guess I think that if a situation has no hope of improvement and it's intolerable then it's not such a bad thing to learn that it's ok to leave. If the situation is one that will improve if it's worked through, then I think there is a valuable lesson in staying on if possible.

Good luck!

I'd caution you against tying compliant behavior in class to rewards at home. Obviously the situation at school is a bad one for him, one in which he has every reason to be acting out, and what's more, I'm sure he's aware that you don't think much more of this teacher than he does. If you disapprove of his teacher (whether you actually voice your disapproval or not makes little difference), that can easily be taken as giving him permission to act out. Regardless, punishing him at home because he doesn't follow the instructions of someone he knows you don't respect is confusing at best. When a child has a bad situation at school, home should be a place to, as EastnWest says, "decompress", with whatever resources are available. He should be allowed to be as happy as you can possibly make him in those post-school hours.

As for the next four weeks, I'd say get him out of there. "Just quit when things are tough" is indeed a bad lesson for him to learn, but so are "keep banging your head against a brick wall no matter how much it hurts", "do the same thing over and over again expecting different results", and "if the normal path doesn't fit you, keep at it anyway and don't look for a better alternative".

Meet with the principal, tell them he's distressed (and describe incidents specifically), and ask for their help. Also give them this information in writing. They may want to do an evaluation, which will take time, but there may be short-term strategies they can use immediately (give him "break tickets" so he can escape for a few minutes before he gets to crisis mode?).

Don't reward/punish at home what happens at school. You can talk about it or debrief but let school reward/punish. You have enough to do at home, and he should see you as a supporter, not as an extension of the teachers.

At this age, don't tie huge rewards to large sudden improvements in behavior: the huge reward increases the anxiety and diminishes the chance of success. We did this for a while and it made everything worse for us.

But do follow through on the Wii this time; it's important that you be consistent and keep your word.

HTH,
DeeDee

NT Mom, I am going through something similar with my DS7. We only have 2 weeks of school left, but starting about 2 weeks ago he increased his outbursts. He has always argued/challenged the teacher, but he got right in her face (literally) about a difference in opinion. I sent the email from his teacher to the head of his outside social skills group,his outside OT and his at-school ESE contact and they all specifically addressed it during their sessions. I think the most effective one was the OT because she made him admit that he was incorrect in his argument and that he is not allowed to go face-to-face with teachers. It took the whole half hour session and it was not pleasant to watch, but it was effective. He turned himself around and the teacher is thrilled. Having his entire "team" focus on one behavior really helped also. I am hoping we can make it through til the end of the year...but I am like you: should we just pull him out for the last few weeks or try to salvage it? We are taking it one day at a time.

About connecting at home rewards with school behavior, I guess we don't do it the right way. DS loves the online computer game world of warcraft and he does NOT get to play it after school if he has a serious enough disruption to warrant a note home from the teacher. I wouldn't do this if we didn't trust his teacher, but she "gets" him. We do NOT tie the computer game to behavior during art, PE, or other classes because those teachers and situations are too unpredictable. Nan

I understand, as others have, about teaching him the lesson of quitting when things get tough. We've tried to straddle that line ourselves and there are some times where I can say that I wish I had gone the route of taking them out. With dd11, I removed her in the last few months of the school year of 1st grade due to a totally intolerable situation and a child who was telling me that she wished she had never been born. In 6th grade (last year), I made her stick it out with an algebra teacher she didn't mesh with b/c it wasn't totally intolerable and she was old enough to deal at that point.

In re to my younger dd (9), I strongly wish that I hadn't left her in 3rd grade all last year. The teacher completely killed her love of learning and convinced dd that she wasn't really too bright, just good at guessing sometimes. We are still undoing massive emotional damage from that year.

For next year, is the current school a possibility or are you looking at different schools if you don't homeschool? The only reason I would even consider staying for the last four weeks is if you might be at that school next year. If not, I'd sit down with your ds and tell him that mom & dad are figuring out what he will be doing for school next year and that you know that this year hasn't been a good fit for him. I'd tell him that you expect him to commit himself to working hard, even when the work isn't as interesting as he would like, and to being respectful of adults, even adults he doesn't like. However, you are also wanting to be respectful of him and you have decided that he will complete the last four weeks of school at home with you doing x, y, and z curriculum (whatever you think is appropriate). I'd stress that you expect next year to work out better and, if things don't go perfectly, that he will be working with you and the teacher to make them better, but he will be staying in school and making them work there b/c you anticipate a better teacher fit next year (if you aren't hsing).

NTmom, I have a few suggestions based on my experiences with a kid who is done with school well before school is done.

One suggestion I would have about the reward using the Wii, is to allow for some backsliding. If the last few weeks have been downright miserable, then 2 days out of 3 on green is a pretty good accomplishment. Maybe you could use 4 days out of 5 on green and no reds or notes home from the teacher to use the Wii on the weekend. Sometimes it helps me to work in smaller chunks and allow that some days just aren't going to go as well as others.

Another thing that has worked for me is to involve my DC in the discussion of consequences, positive and negative. Ask what they think is reasonable - you may disgree, but at least you can discuss it. Maybe you reach a compromise, maybe you stick to your perspective, but he becomes engaged.

Also the more immediate the consequence the better. Now that you have the Wii, maybe consider a limited amount of time each day that he stays on green along with the longer chunks on the weekend if he makes the 4 out of 5 days on green for the week.

I believe that it's important to show my DC that I expect certain behavior. My expectations may not be the same as the teacher's or the school's but some level of respect for other people is a pretty basic requirement for my family. Some things school handles the consequences and I leave it at that, but for behaviors that break standard house rules there will be consequences at home as well. My DC is not particularly impressed with trips to the principal's office and schools have limited options for consequences. On the other hand, there are also things that school considers behavior infractions, that I am not remotely concerned about and wouldn't count against a 4 out of 5 day green requirement for some reward.

My DD8 has been struggling with the end of school blues and lack of challenge (I won't even get into the fact that we have 3 weeks of school left and are well into the field trip/water day/ice cream social phase) and has had a couple of blow-ups about a month ago. We sat down together and she worked out some solutions for 'time-outs' that she could use in similar situations. She could move to another seat in the classroom, she could remove herself from the line and go to the end, and if all else, failed, she could leave the classroom to go take a break in the front office to calm down (after letting the teacher know she was leaving). She wrote these all down herself and presented it to the teacher for her opinion. Our teacher agreed with everything and there hasn't been a single problem in 3 weeks. It seems like letting her take some ownership of the solution has made a big difference. Maybe he could do something similar.

I know none of this helps with the decision about pulling him out. I don't have that option, so have to continue to find a way to work within the system as much as possible. If you decide to stay, maybe these ideas will help.

NTMom -

How are you doing?

Zhian - I love you, but I totally disagree with your reasoning here. It is not a definite thing that the child is aware of his Mom's feelings for the teacher. Our kids are gifted, but they are also children, and at least some of them can be fooled.

I like the idea of decompressing at home - but to me that means walks outdoors, baking cookies, building with legos. It is perfectly fine to withhold the Wii, and offer it as a reward.

I know that it is heartbreaking to watch the child sobbing, BUT perhaps the crying is a stress reliever that you are mearly providing a wonderful pretext to let the tears out. Your son is aware that his behavior is wrong, and I think it comforts him to have the Wii withheld, so that he can 'pay his debt to society.'

By all means talk to the school - the teachers and the principle. Pretend that they have totally open minds and keep making your case. An unscheduled day off now and again may be setting a bad example, but it is a better example than taking the last 4 weeks off, and gives him a chance to marshal his resources and work on being flexible. Of course if you think he is being damaged, then you will pull him out, knowing that this outweighs the bad example problem.

Your relationship with him is the prize, not the Wii, and that isn't going anywhere. So be consistent,stick with the plan, don't be discouraged that he had a yellow day - you are looking for improvement, not a miracle!

My DH was super at designing rewards and would have one level of reward for good behavior, and then a multiplier effect if the good behavior is consistent. I agree that if the Wii reward doesn't hold his interest in the long term then you have a wonderful measure of just how bad things really are.

3 months in a child's life is forever, one month - with the end of the year parties and special activities is an opportunity. That isn't in the literature, just my personal observation. You will have regrets either way, so follow your guts, ok?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Thank you everyone for your always insightful input and thoughts. I just can't imagine what I'd do without this forum!

DS and I are hanging in there for now. My DH and I decided that we had to follow through on no Wii for the weekend, just so we don't sabotage future efforts. But after thinking about many of your replies, we decided that for each day DS stays on "green", he'll earn EXTRA Wii time. But we won't take away the Wii for moving to yellow or red. We're going to leave the consequences to the school.

And Grinity, I like your idea of taking a few days off, as needed. I think a day spent at the science museum or state capitol might help.

I love the ideas of having the child think of ways that they can remove themselves from potentially explosive situations. I'm going to work with DS to have him brainstorm ideas to present to the teacher. We'll see what her response is...

Zhain, your comment about children knowing how we really feel about others (e.g. DS's teacher) gave me great pause. I have been so very careful to always talk positively about her with DS. I'm hoping that I fooled him, as you suggested, Grinity! I actually think that she is a really good teacher, just not for gifted students. She is incredibly organized, has very good classroom management skills, and keeps a fun atmosphere of learning in the classroom. She just has one huge hole of knowledge around what to do with gifted kids. She is a young teacher, still working on her Master Degree. I'm guessing/hoping that a few years down the line she'll look back and realize the opportunities missed with my DS...

I'm meeting with DS's teacher, the principal, the school district's Talented and Gifted (TAG) coordinator, and the school TAG coordinator on Thursday to plan for next year. So I'm thinking that after that meeting I'm going to get a better idea of where we might end up next year.

And finally, EastnWest, thank you so much for asking how I'm doing! I feel like I'm on a great roller coaster of hope, frustration, anxiety, calm, etc. One night last week, my DS and I both ended up in tears talking about school. He was sharing his frustrations, and I shared how sad I felt that I had not been able to figure out some ways to help him in school. But we talked about how hard I am working to make next year a better fit for him. I am typically a very non-emotional person, so I find it interesting how emotional I get about DS's school experience. I just am so worried about damaging him for life. I realize that is quite melodramatic, but that truly is my deepest fear. Oh, yes, that must be my biggest fear. The tears are flowing again!

Sorry for the long post! Thank you again though for all of your thoughtful feedback. You all truly are the best!

NTmom - so glad you are hanging in.
Since you can honestly say that you respect this teacher, I would encourage you to keep the consequence in place for the future. I'll pitch one more time not to shift it to 'extra Wii,' speaking from the vantage point of a mom of a 13 year old boy. I think it sends a message that you think he is fragile, and as you say

I really love the simplicity of 'Green' equals yes and 'Red' equals no. It is ok for your son to be upset that his behavior in school for a day was unacceptable, and that he gets a consequence. Remember that withholding Wii isn't witholding love or nutrition or emotional safety. There are lots of other ways to have fun.

Another cool parenting trick is to ask the child what he thinks is a reasonable consequence for going to yellow or red in school. Maybe he prefers to do something positive to contribute to his world in some way? It makes for some interesting discussion. I guess part of the equation is how much you have limited Wii in the past. If you have been very frugal with that privilege, then I wouldn't give it up so quickly, but if he's had rather free access, then that leans in the direction of 'earning extra.' Ask yourself what Wii use means in your family. Has it been treated so far like a right or a privilege?

I do believe that an unaccommodated child, left in a poor fit situation for 'too long' can be damaged, but, you point out that the had a really good 1/3 of a year. For 'beyond usually gifted children' we count a good half year as a job well done, so a third of a year is nothing to sneeze at. Keep working with the school to get him some relief during the day, but I think it is really good for all the grown ups to be on the same side. Even our precociously abstract children tend to be a bit more black and white in their thinking than adults.

In the end discipline is a highly individual matter - I'm so glad for the diversity that exists. Whatever you do that feels right to you and your DH is the best thing. Keep up those long posts - we love to hear how you are doing!

Love and more love,
Grinity

It's all trial and error. No parent can make the best choices and often times there isn't a right choice. You have to find what works for you and what helps the behaviors improve. Sounds like you are doing a great job at this and working together with him and DH! Great job!

We have tried all sorts of stuff with DS5 who is in 1st this year too. Overall his behavior has improved significantly, but he still has some rough days. His school has a 6 color behavior system (green, yellow, orange, blue, pink, white). It's serious business in elementary school, LOL. We don't give any consequences on green, yellow or orange days. On the other 3 colors he will lose computer and TV. He has only had a couple white days but those have included loss of other privileges for the day as well as a little time in his room (reading, playing piano, or whatever). We did leave it all at school for a while and let them handle it...but it just wasn't as successful. Really he does pretty well at home, but at school he just likes to clown around and get attention at times...especially when he gets reactions from others or gets bored. Honestly I don't think it is the worst thing ever to lose computer or tv since he has so many other things to do anyhow. Plus he rarely watches tv during the school week anyhow with school and sports, etc. But he does love his computer time, so it does impact him and it helps him to know that we don't support those behaviors at school. We don't harp on him about everything, but do discuss his behavior when it is on the last 3 colors. Honestly we just leave it alone if he only moved one or 2 colors since the first color is considered a warning in their class anyhow. So that somewhat works for us....we may try something else from time to time. We have tried behavior charts, etc. but this is the best thing so far. And of course we talk about his behavior together and how things are going at school and how he feels about school. DS actually likes school a lot, but I am sure it gets tiring at times. Good luck to you! Keep us updated on how things are going. My DS has been counting down the days and it will all be over soon ; )



LOL, whenever we do this with DS he will give the worst possible consequence ever, that would not at all fit the crime. Like for example after saying something direspectful and being oppositional towards us or something we would tell him that we were really disappointed and ask him what we think his punishment should be for something like that. His answer would be "I think that you should take away my computer and TV for 2 weeks" We are always so shocked and then have to say "well I think that is a little much, how about _____________" It's funny because sometimes I think he plans it like that. He never gives an easy consequence.