Following on from the what I posted previously re: introversion -

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....troverts_Now_I_Understand.html#Post70489

I have often wondered about DS. He does not have a diagnosis of Aspergers and he doesn't have, what would be described as, the tell tale indicators. However is it the case that perhaps a (?)large number of aspies are introverted or that a large number of gifted introverts have aspie like attributes that keeps me wondering if DS isn't on the fringes of being aspie himself.

Any thoughts?

Look up Dederie Lovecki s Different Minds.....
plenty of info there....grinity

Hmm. Interesting question. My dh and dd11 are introverts. I lean more toward the extraversion end of things and dd9 is an extreme extravert.

I wouldn't say that dh or dd11 have any attributes of Asperger's at all. What attributes of Asperger's, specifically, are you wondering about that might appear in gifted introverts?

That's difficult to answer but when I try to put my finger on it I would have to say it's the social aspect of things, more specifically his reactions, lack of eye contact. He is socially awkward and I think being on the extreme end of introversion most likely accounts for this. It's just one of those observations that you make and you think........mmmmmm I wonder.

A timely post for me. D15 was evaluated for a non-verbal learning disability last week, and the evaluator told me afterwards that he thought if he tested her for Asperger's, he would find that she has it. We had been told when she was much younger (about 4) by an evaluator that he though she did NOT have it. So I had never really bothered to read or learn much about it. I got some books out of the library, and have been reading them for the past couple of days. I have also been puzzling over gifted/introverted vs. Aspergers. Here are some traits D has that match up with Aspergers:

- Problems with eye contact
- Almost no ability to make small talk, she will be completely silent all the way through a dinner or get together with others. She is a little better with extended family, and does okay (not great) with her small group of friends or immediate family. Not just shy, literally NO IDEA how to make appropriate conversation.
- A lot of difficulty with social cues. She just can't read people - - she is often not aware if she has made them angry or frustrated. I think it has made her more introverted, as she can't easily predict how people will react.
- Obsessive interests when younger (Harry Potter and LOTR). We would meet other kids, and their parents would say, "Oh, my junior loves HP, too". But... they could not list every textbook, spell, etc., and D was usually disappointed at their lack of depth and detail. (This is one that could just be "gifted", not Aspie).
- Parallel play until about 3rd grade, when she made her first friend with some help from adults around her. (Could be true for some gifted kids who just have different interest from their peers. But I think that was not D's real issue... she really didn't have much interest in other people, nor any idea how to go about the reciprocal acts required to start and maintain a friendship.).

Some Asperger's traits she doesn't have:
- Obsessive routines and rituals (although she had some "golden rules" when she was younger -- like she HAD to be the first one down the stairs). But none now.
- Repeated motions
- Preoccupation with parts of objects.

The book that I am finding most useful both in (1) recognizing her Aspie traits, and (2) having suggestions on how to help her is "The Everything Parent's Guide to Children With Asperger's Syndrome" by William Stillman. He is Aspie himself, which gives a very useful perspective. He really "gets it".

I am trying to figure out if there is any benefit to having this evaluator do the testing. What are the pros and cons of having a diagnosis? I admit, insurance costs enter my mind... while pre-existing conditions can't cause denial of coverage going forward, it could drive cost. I wouldn't think we would try any medication, if there is any... The only thing I have seen so far where a diagnosis might be useful is maybe we could request a single room for her at college based for medical reasons. I think the odds are about 90% that she will have a rocky roommate experience... tough on her AND the roommate.

My dd11 is very introverted. She does not have any of the characteristics listed in your list below except for obsessive interests. She has been a marine biology/mammology fanatic since about age 2-3. I was learning info from her such as how the tails of marine mammals move in a different direction than the tails of fish when she was probably 3 yrs old. She makes eye contact, though, and talks quite a bit in one on one settings or small groups with people she knows. She just gets tired out from too much social interaction and needs some alone time to recharge.


We saw Dr. Temple Grandin speak locally recently, and she ided the eye contact thing as being a very typical ASD thing. She did also state that she felt that SPD was not a stand-alone dx, though, and dd11 was dx with SPD at 7.5. Dr. Grandin felt that SPD was either part of an ASD or another disorder such as a learning disability, which dd also does not have. She could, of course, be incorrect or perhaps the other dx that is comorbid with SPD for dd is simply "gifted."

Matmum and intparent, DS9 fits here also, poor eye contact, lack of ability to read social cues etc. I remember a time last year when he invited a friend from school over - a girl - they came in off the bus and he asked if she wanted to play a video game. When she said no he said nothing and proceeded to wander away both physically and mentally, not hurt just no idea what to do now that plan A didn't pan out. If DD6 hadn't been there the poor girl would have been hung out to dry - DD immediately began to ask if the girl would like a snack, does she like cats?, would she like to see her room and the cat etc. I have wondered about AS but he does not fit in many ways either.

Thanks for posting this thread - nice to know others share the same experiences.

Perfect description, Breakaway4. D has learned to try to make a Plan A, but if Plan A doesn't pan out, she is at a loss for Plan B. Just like in a conversation. Sometimes she can come up with a question to ask someone, but then she can't keep the follow up going based on what they say. It isn't that she isn't verbally skilled (740 CR SAT in 8th grade). Just... not this kind of verbal.

My daughter is quite a bit younger (almost 6), but she has dyspraxia and for her an element of it is the "social planner disorder" nature of it. It takes many, many repetitions of certain situations for it to 'click' what is expected of her. We did have her evaluated at a younger age, but the doctor was adamant that it was not in fact Asperger's or anything on the spectrum, but the nature of her original diagnosis.

Probably out of the list of Aspergers traits the ones that best describe DS are:

- Problems with eye contact - definitely.
- Almost no ability to make small talk, she will be completely silent all the way through a dinner or get together with others. She is a little better with extended family, and does okay (not great) with her small group of friends or immediate family. Not just shy, literally NO IDEA how to make appropriate conversation. DS would appear to be more on the shy side rather than no idea
- Obsessive interest. But not at the expense of all else.

I always come back to his traits being those of an introvert and they most definitely are because as I stated, he is on the extreme end. Even so his social interactions still leave me guessing. It probably had me thinking of it again yesterday when he was playing soccer. Even though he was playing seniors his responses post game really aren't different to when he is playing juniors with his friends. Out on the field he has no issue with organising and directing play but afterwards he hangs around the fringes noy saying a word or engaging anyone. He scored two goals and the men were coming up and congratulating him and patting him on the back and DS barely acknowledges they are there except for maybe a handshake and a slight smirk. Then for me it's............mmmmmmmm I wonder.LOL