Just wanted to share how my school meeting went last week. I met with the Principal, my DS8's teacher, and the floater teacher who has been doing a pullout math group with him (allegedly the 2 top kids in math from each of 5 classrooms).

Overall it went pretty well. My main priority was to listen to what they had to say, not get upset in front of them, as we had a very upsetting week due to two other issues and I was feeling pretty beaten down, and to try to advocate/push on some fronts. I did all 3

My way of background my DS is in 2nd grade in public school. There is no G/T anything until 4th grade here, and I think he has learned very little in math over the last 3 years. I mentioned this to his teacher at the beginning of the year and she seemed skeptical, so we decided to do some testing to have some objective evidence. The testing showed pretty much what we expected - HG kid with a particular math talent.

One good thing from pushing on the teacher a little bit (lovely woman) was that my DS was pulled into this small group starting in December that moved much faster and also did enrichment type math - it has helped alot - my DS was coming home in tears and angry over the "baby" math and now he says he likes his small group although he still wishes he was learning more new stuff (for example they just started learning multiplication and division - circling groups, etc. and at home he is working on long division and multiplication). But it is a much better situation.

So, at the meeting, I explained the test scores and what they suggested. Then the principal said she agreed that we had to keep challenging him, etc. etc. She does not like subject acceleration because she has concerns about the maturity issue and the knowledge gap issue. I (nicely) said that I didn't think the research supported those concerns and she was nicely disagreed but conceded that he research was mixed and that he would be able to remedy any gaps easily. His teacher focused on the maturity issue (she likes him, but it seems to be her big issue - my DS is def. not overly mature, but is normal for an 8 year old (he is very tall and looks like a 10 year old and I think that even when people know he is 8 they expect him to act like a 10 y.o. - I know I do sometimes).

One great thing is that it looks quite likely that the small group will continue until the end of the year. While this isn't a perfect solution, it isn't a bad one either, and it gives us time to work out something for next year (when there most likely will not be a floater teacher).

The principal is going to have a couple math curriculum specialists talk to him and we left it at that (and the fact the small group is likely going to continue). We agreed to continue to discuss options. I did email the principal because I felt like I came out sounding like I strongly wanted a subject skip, when I view that as one possible option (and not necessarily the best - I would really love it if they would let me get him a mentor). And I wanted to clarify specifically why she was having him meet with the curriculum people (she said not testing, but I didn't clarify exactly why so I would like some sense of where she is going with that).

So, for a first meeting, I think it went well enough. I am trying to remind myself that this will likely take a while. Especially if the small group continues for the rest of the year, it will give us until school starts in fall to come up with a plan for 3rd grade, which is a nice amount of time to reach a resolution. And in the meantime, he is generally pretty happy.

Thanks for all of the suggestions about how to approach this meeting - they definitely helped.

Cat

Wow, that's wonderful! You did great!

That's great news

Sounds like a good first step! But I have to say, when the Principle said that she agreed that 'we' have to keep challenging him, I would have been hard pressed not to look incredulous and ask "Is grouping items to introduce division your idea of challenging a kid who is doing long division on his own time? I don't get it."

What do they offer the 4th graders (can he get subject accelerated into the 4th grade pull out program?)

You may want to order a copy of 'A Nation Deceived'and Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual to share with the Principal, since she seems interested in educational research.

In a way, full grade acceleration is less difficult on an immature kid than subject acceleration, because one doesn't have to use all those organizational skills to keep things moving. Every subject accel kid has to deal with arriving in an empty room once in a while because plans changes and no one told them - that takes a certain amount of maturity. Whole skips, OTOH, provide lots of role modeling of what kids in X grade are supposed to be like, and the peer pressure can help quite a bit.

Well, it is a long slow process, but the school is talking to you and that is the first step.

Grinity

Grinity, I am definitely with you - in no way do I think this principal really gets what my son needs, I am just glad I didn't cry or scream and that I at least heard they are somewhat open to doing something (although I fear this is all just talk and that they won't actually do anything in the end or they will delay forever). However, the meeting came at a very bad time in our district, with two very major and divisive issues coming up that week, so I need to at least give her a break on expecting immediate reaction, etc. because I know she is likely very distracted.

I am glad the pullout will likely continue, because the alternative is regular class and the pullout has made a big difference in my son's frustration level.

In no way do I think my job is done - just starting what I see is going to be a long slow process.

Cat

Exactly - the first step of a long slow process. and it works really well for some kids!

But, yeah, all we got from the public school was encouraging words and then an abrupt visit from the higher-up hatchet man. I think that's why advocacy is so difficult - it's slow, emotionally painful, and there is no gaurentee that it will work. Still so glad that we tried, and that we found away around.

love and more love,
Grinity

Grinity,

And the way around was. . . ?

Oh! During 4th grade we requested, and got inclass enrichment, which helped, and an experimental permission to go with the 5th graders to musical instrument lessons and a once monthly 5th grade Math club. This did help tremendously, and one could observe DS 'brighten' after the math club. But overall, he was still pretty miserable. We were asking for subject acceleration in math, 1 year. Seems pretty tame right now.

They assesed him, and their Math consultant only saw the underachievement. Her assesment was: 'He is NOT a deep thinker in math.'

((As if you need to be a deep thinker to try to get out of a room that spends 6 weeks doing language arts exploration of the concept 'Perimeter.' - Gurrr))

So over the summer between 4th and 5th we shopped for private schools. At first I looked for schools that would accept him AND give him the skip, to minimze the social friction. Great idea, but, even with the IQ test reports in front of them, what I got was - "Moving from the public school to the much more demanding environment of the private school is enough of a transition for anyone, particularly your child." Again, his underachievement was showing - one placed asked him: 'Would you like to give us a writing sample?'

He politely said that he'd rather not.

By the time I applied to the last school in August, I didn't say anything about his IQ or his needing a gradeskip. I had convinsed myself that just transfering to private would be a step in the right direction. DS had taken a writting class over the summer (SIG day camp) and was feeling much more confident by then.

Of course, the head of the lower school (K-5th) came back for his 'interview' looking like a strange combination of queasy and excited. She said that he got more correct items on their vocabulary test than any child ever, and that his writing sample was so beautiful that it took her breath away, that she had never seen anything like in all her 20+ years of interviewing children for that division of the school. ( I had insisted that she demand he keyboard the writing sample.)

So I signed on the dotted line and he became a student at the private school. A month later he was getting in trouble for reading books in his desk, and they were po'd at him for not doing the 'additional math for those who finish early' that was widely availible. So DH and I requested a gradeskip, and he got one - it was finalized by mid October.


As a team, we all worked hard to get him up to speed with the very heavy 'product demands' of Middle School. He got a great education for 2 years, but things never really gelled socially, and there was a bullying issue so we switched back to the excellent public middle school, keeping the gradeskip.

and that was our 'way around.'

Love and More Love,
Grintiy

Wow Grinity! That's an amazing story! I hope things will continue to go smoothly now. The great thing is, you still have the grade skip and they can't take that back . Sorry to hear about the bullying.

Wowzer Grinity, that is a tale. And as I read it I keep thinking "oh please please please don't let that happen to me." Sigh.

And now the Principal hasn't replied to my email that I sent last Monday - I'm giving it until tomorrow when I resend the email and say "Just wondering if you received this?" when I already know she just doesn't want to deal with it.

Another big sigh. Cat

maybe the lack of response was an oversight. Same thing happened to me and I thought.... THEY ARE AVOIDING ME! HAHA! But, i popped in the office when I was at school and asked if the email was received. the princ. thought she had responded but didn't?! Either that or sometimes they prefer NOT to have a written trail so it doesn't come back to bite them in the end. hahaha!

did your email have questions or things that you wanted her to check into. Sometimes it is not a bad thing when they don't respond right away. It may mean they are checking into something. I would rather wait for a definitive answer then just have them make something up to make me feel better. Sometimes I have sent emails to the school about things that they are supposed to be doing and I don't hear back for a week or 2, good news is that usually during that week or two they are trying to throw things together and start working on them. It's tough not harassing too much but still holding them accountable for what they say they will do. It is a delicate balance : ) Good luck!

I pray it does not.
And now the Principal hasn't replied to my email that I sent last Monday - I'm giving it until tomorrow when I resend the email and say "Just wondering if you received this?" when I already know she just doesn't want to deal with it. [/quote]
Seems reasonable.

Another big sigh. Cat [/quote]

Hi Grinity and all you folks here, it's been tough for you guys; I really hope things stay on track *from here on*.

I'm starting to understand how school advocacy can be a long drawn, 1-step-forward, 2-steps-backwards battle. I'm borrowing this thread to grouse because I see a some similarities with Grintiy's case - at the start of the year, we were given promises of "more" by the Gifted Board, and it gradually crystalized into a 1 yr grade skip. This is March - the promises of a grade skip were rescinded when they administered a short notice math achievement test. Their verdict about DS7 - "he dooesn't do math puzzles, does he? He knows his concepts but not deep enough. Yes he can do algebra, probability and combinations even, but he has to fill in his gaps first". I don't get it. Yes he will fill them in with the appropriate material, in school, at the right grade (we're only asking for that original 1 grade skip to 2nd grade, because of social and handwriting issues). But at home, my belief is he should have the joy of choosing to work on what delights him. Their implication is that I should drill him on earlier concepts. Is this what gifted education is about? Step by step progression?? And I do the advance prep myself? What's he in school for?

They will review in 3 mths, by which time, they hope to see improvement. Luckily his school teacher is solidly convinced about him. I still feel sick in the gut because this means I have to prep him into the shape they want. I signed him up for Aleks, and luckily too, he seems to be enjoying it. But the entire process just seems so wrong.

Do it Blob. Write many angry letters that you burn until you can do it with a smile - there is nothing wrong with a child being encouraged to learn memorization skills. There is nothing wrong with teaching a child that one has to live in this imperfect world and jump through hoops once in a while. You may as well make the most fun of it as you can - they only win if you let them sour you.

I think of this kind of skill drill as 'hothousing' and I am in favor of playing their game as a means of communicating in their language. It's lovely when the school folk speak 'parent' and see things from your point of view (which I believe is entirely correct) but as a matter of practicality, we have to learn their language, and in their world, 7 times 8 is key.

So here's a congratulation for getting the agreement for the skip, and for figuring out what it will take to get it to work, AND for getting started. yippee!!

Grinity

Of course this is me talking, I'd at least try hothousing the handwriting as well and go for the 2nd skip! Maybe if the Math drill hothousing goes well you'll be inspired to try the handwriting. These asynchronous kids are tough!!!

Grinity

Tks Grinity and kcab. You guys have been solid in your understanding and support. What will we do without you!

Yup. It's the lingua franca and we are learning it. Good thing is, the son IS motivated, so he's progressing well according to their prescribed benchmarks (scoff). But yes, and *smile* too! On the flipside, he says that when he grows up, he wants to be in charge of education, except that he'll change the name to the Ministry of Wonder, or the Wonder Board because kids learn when they wonder, not when they do drills.

Good luck, Catalana! Hope you have your reply by now.

I love this! It is so true. Can I go to his school please? Nan

Me too?

WIll let you guys know when admissions open.

I did finally get a one sentence response yesterday from the Principal which basically said "waiting on higher level admins, will let you know what I hear."

I guess it isn't so bad, as the pullout group is apparently continuing - but I do view the beginning of the next academic year as the drop dead date, since I don't think the group will continue. I guess what is disappointing is that based on that response, I see very little willingness to engage in discussion - I am trying to think positively, but it really isn't very encouraging. It didn't respond to several different points DH and I made that were broader re: curriculum and teaching.

On a more positive note, DS and I have been briefly (like for 8 minutes)going over how to do long division, and it has been the first time ever that I have seen him struggle a bit with a math concept. Actually, not sure it is the concept as much as the fact he doesn't know his multiplication facts super well, so he finds it hard to divide into - anyway, what was neat was that he was engaged and challenged! Something we really don't ever see. I think he liked it - although he was kind of frustrated too - it was hard to read because there was some new stuff going on.

thanks to all of you for your support - sometimes I feel like I am just a freaky mom, as I said, I can't imagine how those of you with a PG handle all of this, as I am finding it super hard (maybe my own obsessive personality traits ).

Cat

This is lovely! Division is a great way to teach those pesky math facts!

Grinity

He kept trying to escape to geometry and other areas on his Aleks "pie" but eventually he ran out of other stuff and was forced to learn it (I told him I wouldn't move him up a level until the pie was all filled in - which he actually accepted pretty readily).

Pesky math facts indeed - I confess to still getting my 7 x 8 and 6 x 8 mixed up - yikes!

I was just tis morning (after I got congradulated on my math skill on the other thread) thinking about what a shame it is that I keep having to learn and relearn 7 X 8, when 56 is such a pretty number. And I love how they line up in

56 = 7x8

so chronological!

I don't mind 6 x 8 so much because it boils down to 8x5 (40) plus 8 x1.

Basically I have no automatic recall of Math facts higher than 5 inspite of having memorized them twice - once for myself and again to help my son. Wonder if it's related to my spelling?

Smiles,
Grinity