I was wondering if any veteran parents could give me some advice...

My son is 6 and is getting to be a chronic back-chatter. Every request from me is met with endless balking, negotiating and talking back. It's like having a mini teenager in the house. He always has a "better" idea than what I'm asking him to do. He uses precocious, "adult" arguments with me, like, "Why are you always bossing me around and telling me what to do? It's very rude!"

I try to let him have some control over some decisions so he doesn't feel too powerless, but some things are not negotiable (like how much TV he can watch, or when to get ready for school).

I am having difficulty taking the high ground and not just yelling at him, "You do it, because I said so!" He's much more outspoken with me than I would have ever dreamed of being with my parents.

Arrggh... any suggestions?

I stay calm and say, "Sorry. House rules." Kids can't argue with the house. Staying firm even when I'm tired seems to be a big factor, too.

I also come down harder when people make my life harder. So if they argue after the decision is made, I make the decision worse for them, not better. The more they argue, the harder my life, the harder I make their lives. This seems to really work well. I get very little backtalk.

I do allow a period for debate sometimes before I've made up my mind. I like the idea of teaching them when discussion and persuasive speech is acceptable. But once the decision is made, further talk is prohibited.

The "Bossing me around/That's rude" stuff would be met with a time out or some other such discipline. When they pay the bills, they get to make their own decisions. Until then, there is a clear hierarchy and I'm at the top of it. That's not EVER open for debate. If nothing else, the law says that I am responsible for them!

Most gifted kids hate following rules when they don't understand the reasoning behind them. Answering with "because I said so" is about as effective as saying "because soup is wet". They need things explained, and often prefer an explanation on an adult level. It sounds like your son is challenging you using "adult" logic, which to me suggests he wants you to discuss your decision in an adult way.

And I'm not a parent, but as a teacher, I figure if I can't adequately explain a rule or decision, I probably didn't have the right to enforce it to begin with.

Thanks for the advice, all. I think you're right, zhian -- he does want a good reason and would definitely prefer to have a conversation about the whys than do what he's asked without question. Which is OK, up to a point, but then it just becomes wrangling and, I suspect, stalling...

My thought would be it's stalling if he wants the same rule explained twice!

I went through a phase when I was three when I decided to fight my mom on things I'd always done without trouble before - buttoning my coat, wearing my seatbelt, things like that. We'd fight for half an hour or more, then she'd suddenly explain it in the right way and I'd say "oh, okay" and never take issue with it again. I get the feeling it was hit-and-miss for her what level of explanation was adult enough for me to accept it without feeling like I was being fobbed off, but not so adult I had trouble grasping the concept of it.

Great thread!

zhian, great advice. I never thought to explain things at an adult level before, but the more I think of the ways he rations/explains things I think that would be a big help.

My DS5 also has problems with authority. He now knows that, until he is 18, as the mom I am in charge of any and all things related to ....

1. Health/Nutrition (both physical and mental)
2. Safety
3. Manners

These three things cover a lot of stuff. Sometimes I let "natural consequences" be their own lesson. For example, when he was in preschool last year he was refusing to get dressed without a major battle ensuing. Finally (with cooperation from the school) I let him go to school naked. He thought it was great fun until we pulled up in front of the school and he freaked. No problems getting dressed anymore!

LOL!!!!!!!

Eleanor05, that sounds so much like "Love & Logic". I love that parenting series.

FWIW, we ran into this same roadblock with providing explanations for things. We ended up explaining to DS that there are times we would provide an explanation/reason for our rule/answer, but that it was our *choice*, not a requirement. Basically, "I'm happy to provide you an explanation when I can or choose to, but there are times that I can't or simply won't." DS really got out of hand with trying to discuss each and every thing, and we felt that this had the potential to carry over into EVERY aspect - school, extra-curriculars, etc. - and not everyone is going to entertain such things. We wanted to be sure that he also understood that there were/are times and places for discussion/reasoning, but also for compliance without argument...even if he doesn't agree or just plain ol' doesn't like it.

Just a thought.

Elenor,

Love the going to school naked story. Just this morning I had to carry DD4 to the car with no socks, shoes or coat, since everyone else was in the car and ready to go. They can really be a challenge sometimes, can't they.

My son once argued when I told him to go play his game. The day prior I had told him he was grounded from it for a week, but I had spoken harshly and thought that was extreme. The following day i told him he could play for one hour and he argued that I told him he couldn't play for a week, stating that "You aren't being very consistent, Mom" Aaaarrgggg.

That isn't even the beginning of the arguments he has with me. I haven't quite found a way to deal with them, but I sympathize.

Hmmm, hate to admit it but...
I actually yelled at DD6 to shut up the other day because of this issue.
She laughed and did actually shut up for a few minutes.
She asked me for help on something and then proceeded to analyze my every move, critique me and my method of helping her and chat away, I just couldn't take it anymore.
Yikes.
Later I apologized but part of me realizes that it worked.

Yesterday I made the mistake of asking my 3yo "Do you want to get into trouble or are you going to start make making better choices today?"
His response back was a sarcastic "What do you think?"

Jaw drop!
Where the heck does he get this stuff from?

LOL Floridama...it may be hard, but try to think of it this way: your son is using sarcasm effectively (it got on your nerves, ergo it was effective) years younger than most people can even understand what it is.

OMG, I know just how this feels. People constantly ask me where my son gets these things lol and I have to say, I am not even sure!

Actually at the time I thought it was funny. I had to look away so he could not see me smiling.

It took some time but, DH & I have learned to accept the fact that our DS will probably never fit into the "proper child behavior" mold.

In my mind's eye I can still see and hear my then preschool aged son grumbling about not getting his way and then hearing him say "stupid mom" under his breath. When I told him to repeat what he had just said, he looked at me and said "STU-pendous mom." I have had to put my hands over my mouth and walk out of the room to stifle my laugh so he would think I was so upset with his behavior that I had to leave the room and cry. I found some things he said so funny that I did actually have tears in my eyes so it was sometimes easy to do and he really didn't like to hurt my feelings. He just had to learn to control his temper and to learn when he could say those sarcastic little thought that popped in his head and when it was best to keep it to himself.

My DS4 said that he wanted to be the "boss." So, I told him what the bosses jobs were. They include cooking, shopping, cleaning, planning, doing the dishes, the laundry, all outside chores (and named each - which were abundant) and feed, clothe and take care of all of Daddy's and my needs, plus the work I do for his Daddy's company, which leave almost no time for play. Then I asked him if he still wanted to be the boss. He (gladly on my part, I guess;) quickly said no. My DS is EXTREMELY strong-willed; and WE can deal with him fine; but only a handful of others can as well.

This post is very timely for us as well; and I don't want to steal your thread; but I am in need of a good, tearful vent. He is getting so frustrated lately about other things; and is making him more non-compliant in the areas where he feels he may get some ground if he pushes it. We believe that his other frustrations, namely his being a late talker, and being made fun of by other kids his age for talking like a "baby" are causing him to act out with us. He is a very sweet, loving, fun child otherwise. Although his speech is improving greatly, I have recently heard the interactions with other nasty kids. And he lets it get to him. He is very sensitive. He talks back to them right away and stands up for himself; but his voice is still not where it should be. And it is heart-breaking. I want to be nasty to the kids, asking if they can read, do Math,....; and "Why not?" that maybe THEY are the babies; but of course, I don't. The nasty thoughts that go through my head. I digress. I have a long conversation with my DS afterwards; but he still hurts inside.

My point is that maybe your DS is dealing with other things that
he is not telling you about. Hugs.

I really try hard to never use the "because I'm the adult and I said so" with my Ds (20 & 14 now). If there is not time to give a full explanation when they want to debate, I let them know we will discuss later. And then we do. I grew up in a "father knows best" and "children should be seen and not heard" family, and I do not want my kids to have the same frustration that caused me. I don't always modify things the way they want me to, but my kids always know that their concerns have been heard. Even when they were wee I did this. They may not completely accept my reasoning... but if I can't justify and explain it, then maybe my case isn't so strong anyway. I just feel like if I can't treat their ideas and wishes respectfully, I can't expect them to be respectful toward me... This has worked out well in the long run for us, in spite of some specific days with a lot of debate.

Good for you, intparent - that whole "respect is a two-way street" thing seems difficult for a lot of adults to grasp. I see way too many teachers who seem to think respect should only flow from younger people to older, and I guess unfortunately there are a lot of parents out there who are the same.

Also, I think hearing the phrase "children should be seen and not heard" is just about the only thing that could ever move me to physically attack someone. There's no more repugnant set of words in history.