It's not like I have many options other than public school, and I do like the educational component of ours, for the most part, but if school is supposed to be for socialization as well, I am wondering when this is supposed to occur. My ds9 states that he doesn't really have time to hang out with his friends during school. Recess is now 10 minutes (!) and lunch is a hustle to get in and eat in 20. (4th grade)
I personally don't recall being interested in/ready for social aspects until high school, so maybe this is all ok, but it seems to go against the idea of what the school states it is trying to accomplish and what most children are ready for...

Are children supposed to be socializing during class projects? Maybe my ds doesn't realize this and is stymied by his desire to behave well.
Do other kids feel like social time during school is extremely limited? If not, where / when do they fit in hanging out with their friends?

thanks~

I think the idea is that socialisation doesn't mean hanging out with your friends, it means any interacting with others. So queuing for lunch is included, as is anything other than silent individual work in class, etc. I think the most challenging and valuable aspect for my DS so far has been the simple fact of managing social situations without me being available to help.

That said, I'm horrified by the way US schools seem to have removed free play time. UK schools still have far more of it, I'm happy to say.

I think ColinsMum has it right: "socialization" is much more than "socializing" - e.g., learning to wait in line, take turns, behave at an assembly, etc.

As for the socializing - I agree that there doesn't seem to be as much time for that now as I had, but they definitely make up for it with the special activities. It seems like they have a party, movie, assembly, or something almost every single week! And the last 2-3 weeks of school are almost nothing but!

[Don't get me started on how little time they seem to spend on actually teaching the children....]

What I always wonder about with schools and socialization is whether this is good preparation for life: kids in age-segregated classes, hierarchical relationships with grown-ups who hold power over them, strict rules about things that sometimes seem quite trivial (hands on desks instead of on your lap is the new one in my DD8's class). I think I'm with John Taylor Gatto and various others on this--there's a very specific kind of "school socialization" that is linked to the teacher's need to keep order from disintegrating into chaos. (And the more critical/radical explanations would say that part of the school socialization is about things like teaching kids to follow rules unthinkingly, ostracize non-conformists, etc.) I'm happier when school socialization is linked to something related to ethics or character development--the Virtues Project is big here, for instance.

All the things you're all mentioning are why homeschoolers roll their eyes when asked about the "s-word": socialization. It warms the cockles of my heart that you all understand the value of it AND the weaknesses of the system for getting it. So many people don't!

There are many ways to get the turn-taking, working together, when to be quiet, sharing aspects of socialization outside of school. I think all those things are important, but I also think that socialization AND socializing can be quite easy to find elsewhere if necessary and/or desireable. School sure doesn't have a lock on it.

Great comments, all. I guess I have definitely thought of socializing rather than 'learn rules of behavior' when I hear the word socialization.

But still it seems that kids ought to have some time to connect with other kids during school/school activities, so hopefully that will begin to open up more as the years go by.

I have nothing useful to add -- I just had to say I misread this as "it warms the cookies of my heart" and then couldn't stop giggling. Either I need new glasses or more coffee or both!

"School and Socialization, BS?"

Yes!

If I had cookies in my heart, my backside would be even wider than it already is.

I'm snickering, too!

This is a running joke with our homeschool group this year....when my son attempted public school first grade at the beginning of this school year, I was informed by the teacher (and my son) that there was NO time for socialization....they had NO outside play time that was there's- other than PE, lunch was insane and the kids were not allowed to talk or they got in trouble in the lunchroom. So...we thought maybe he can socialize in the classroom...nope...his teacher did not do any kind of group or team work/projects..the kids were expected to sit in their seats listen to her directions/lessons and then complete worksheet after worksheet....so there was zero socialization. My son finally made a friend in class but he kept telling us that he could never ever talk to her because they are never allowed to talk to each other. We heard the same thing over and over from other homeschool parents....so in homeschooling, my little guy has 100% more socializing then he was ever allowed in School

What schools call "socialization" seems to really mean "learning the norms of a completely artificial social environment directed by well-meaning but slightly batty adults". Example: at my school, the student judged "best-behaved" in each class earns a sticker at the end of the day; not terribly original, I know, but moderately effective. So today, one of the first-graders decides to give a couple of her stickers from last month to her friends. Her teacher sees this and reminds her "If you're giving out stickers, you have to give them to everyone." So I lean across the table to this teacher and say "Why? You don't."

LOL, zhian! Well-put!

Love that story zhian!

I have been getting the "socialization is so important" lecture from every school I call to inquire about early entrance for Kdgn., so this thread is very timely for me. The funny thing is that DD4 is better at following the rules and being kind to people than my DD9 is!