After poking around Dr. Ruf's website I was inspired to check into her ideas about personality types (Myers Briggs type) in children and their effect on learning needs. It was very revealing when I discovered the personality types of my children and read the descriptions. It made it so evident why my son has such difficulty in school and not my daughter. The descriptions fit to a "T" and even had anecdotes that parallel our experiences such as my son telling his teacher that an assignment was "stupid" and "I don't care about the consequences, I won't do it." Interestingly my son and I share the same type while my daughter is quite different.
And true to one of the cliches of psychology, the traits that drive me crazy in him are ones I share! My daughter on the other hand is a cakewalk for the most part which is also part of her personality description.
There is also a discussion of the best types of learning environments for different personality types and I will be using this when I meet with his teacher, school adjustment counselor and principal next week. If you haven't already I would take a look into this part of the puzzle that is our children.

Thanks for writing this! It made me look up on these Personality Types, and I found out I was a INTP, it really tells about the issues I have, and it will help me work around my weaknesses as well as I have become more aware of them.

Thank you again, and good luck with your children!

It is amazing how people have mapped out our minds with such accuracy.

What websites did you use to figure this out for your child? I know there are ones aimed at adults.

Thanks

http://www.personalitypage.com/kids.html

Thanks for the link! I discovered that ds and I are the exact same, and apparently we fit into a category that describes less than 3% of the population. I'm sure dh wouldn't be surprised!

Jen,

Did you find that the descriptions were pretty accurate?

LOVED that link! OMG was it EXACTLY describing my daughter to "T"! I tried it for my son, (young in age so perhaps it was because I didn't have as much to base the answers on) but found his to be a little less accurate. VERY interesting though! Thanks for the link.

thanks for the link. I tried it for DS4 but when I read the questions, I was a little confused as DS4's personality has significantly evolved over time. When he was three, he was a bit shy, more of the observer type. He still oberserves but not for that long, basically he has just become more confident in his ability to handle new situations. Also he is social but not actually seeking approval from the adults, just from the kids and that too not from all the kids, just from those he is friends with so I do not know where he fits. Anyways... just that I found it difficult to answer many questions.

Ut Oh!

Would you describe DS4 as flexible? if not, pull up a chair, and I'll tell you a story.

This sounds like my DS13, who is an INTP or INTJ. It's hard to tell when they are so young. But the take home message is this: If you have a gifted child (especially a boy) who is social, and not approval seeking, be sure sure sure to get them in a good academic fit situation, because they will not suffer quietly! They also have a tendency to enjoy 'stirring things up' inside the classroom if aren't fully engaged and feeling like they have something to gain by compiling with the Adults.

Well, that's what happened in our house, anyway!
Smiles,
Grinity (ENTP, and how!)

Since I did the questions from the link above I am not sure whether DS8 is INTP or INFP but let me tell you...he is definitely into stirring things up and does not suffer a poor fitting situation quietly. He also has all the other traits like starting a million projects and never finishing them, refusing to do anything he is not very interested in...or doing such a lousy job it is (or should be) embarrassing. Even without being gifted I think this type would have trouble in school. My daughter is ENJ and while I am so not a J, I sure love having one in the house.
They say that the T or F part is more flexible on the site I found and I think that is true. I was definitely an INTP right up until my mid-twenties and I now lean more towards the F side although not always...

I think the information from the personality profile if you feel the description is accurate is an invaluable tool when doing academic planning for your child. It seems like such a simple thing and doesn't take a psychologist and $2500 to determine but it can guide us in making decisions right along with achievement and IQ tests. Especially for those types who will not be into people pleasing or into finishing projects etc. These children will be less likely to show the extent of what they can do unless the conditions are optimum. Since my son does less than enthusiastic work and often rushes through things or fails to complete them I have my hands full trying to convince people that he needs more challenging work.

Anyone have any thoughts on personality type and the reliability of test results? I know that my son will put in the bare minumum required (or less) if asked to do something he is not interested in like "those stupid boring questions" on the WISC-IV. Or the long boring questions on state tests etc. So unless they redesign the tests to revolve around Zelda Twilight Princess I sincerely doubt that we have accurate test scores ever.
I also really liked the Left Brain discussion as our state tests in the school put a huge emphasis on students "explaining" their work and DS is like I was..."I just know it, I can't (or equally important don't want to bother) to explain it."
What do you all think?

My understanding is that for Es, the T/J thing isn't so well defined, and for Is the N/S preference isn't so well defined. Or something like that - details detail, just dance around me, but it is in the Wikipedia article - I'm just too tired to look it up! Some people are close to the middle on everything, and that is good too.

I wish they used this to help choose college roomates - seems like that would reduce stress in a big way.

And yeah, Breakaway, I'll bet INTP/INFP do cause trouble in school even without being gifted - great point! However, I'll bet the kind of trouble the non-gifted ones cause isn't so 'new and different' or so 'powered by intense.'

Smiles,
Grinity

Breakaway,
I think they are spot on! I read the description to ds, and he was cracking up because it described him so well!

I'm an ENFP; ds is an ENP (I guess they don't do the T/F distincition with kids.)

I've done the M-B profile a few times, and I've always gotten the same result. I find it to be quite accurate. Describes me to a tee.

Jen

No, I will not describe him as flexible even though he tries hard mostly because he knows that adults get upset and punish if he shows his inflexibility. But that does not prevent him from stirring things up to create challenge or just to get into a lengthy argument. We are not 100% confident that his school is meeting his academic needs but we feel that his teacher is slowly started to understand him and how to keep him occupied so we are hoping things will work-out. He is in pre-k and have not been tested but we are beginning to think that he is highly or profoundly gifted.

Grinity, if you don't mind can you please share what could be the signs of silent sufferings?

I have personally done this assessment several times and come out the one who is least prevalent. I learned that although people perceive me as social I am a major introvert who needs alone time. This is the same for my son. It is tiring to be around people and up. The school seems to think this is anti-social, not needing to be with others constantly.

I'm with you Vicam. I love a good party, love to talk but I am always the first one to leave.

Sign #1 (almost inescapable in females, IMHO, also a problem for some males) - assuming that the problem is YOU, not the poor academic fit. Never getting a sense of one's potential. Always aiming too low. Pouring tremendous energy into figuring out a way to fit in and mask one's true being.

Sign #2 Stomach aches, saying 'I hate school'

Sign #3 Not wanting to try new things where one might be seen not knowing what they are doing. Being afraid to take chances. Needing one's school work to be perfect, to the point where the paper wears out from erasing, or the child refuses to try.

Sign #4 Saying: I'm too litte to read (or whatever) or child now refuses to use skills that they have, and it isn't to get a rise out of the parent.

Sign #5 Being emotionally invested in finishing first, being the fastest, assuming that being smart is all about never having to live a brain cell to learn.

I'm sure we could add a few more, but this is what comes to mind.
Best Wishes,
Grinity

You'll never be 100% confident, but it's great that you are starting to learn how to advocate. A great teacher will do a great job with your child. If you can quietly in the backround make some family decisions that will allow a few years of homeschooling if it should become nescessary, you'll sleep better at night. Forwarned is 4armed!

Luckily none of these signs so far. The part of the reason is he enjoys art corner other than social interactions. Mainly because he can pick up pencils\crayons and paper and pretty much do anything, draw a picture, color it the way he wants and write. The other day at home he picked up pen and paper and drew solar system, sun, planets, moon, asteriod with various shades of colors, he also titled them with just a few spelling mistakes which we gently corrected. So now we know why he enjoys art corner.
We are not sure how will it work out in future though as the curriculum will become more and more adult guided.

[quote=Grinity][quote=joys] This sounds like my DS13, who is an INTP or INTJ. It's hard to tell when they are so young. But the take home message is this: If you have a gifted child (especially a boy) who is social, and not approval seeking, be sure sure sure to get them in a good academic fit situation, because they will not suffer quietly! They also have a tendency to enjoy 'stirring things up' inside the classroom if aren't fully engaged and feeling like they have something to gain by compiling with the Adults.

Sorry, if I hijacked your quote incorrectly, Grinity. But, I have a question for you... What ended up being your fit for your DS13 at 4yrs? You are describing my DS4.5 now who is at home due to not finding a fit for him around here. I don't see a good fit in the near future either. If his speech were better, I'd try to skip him into 1st grade next year as he is fairly well-rounded academically; but the school systems here do not seem to be open-minded enough for that to happen. ("everyone evens out in the 3rd grade mindset") Any advice? Thanks.

Sorry, I'm responding late. I have no particular wisdom to add here. But this is definitely part of the reason we haven't pursued full testing for DS9. He sounds exactly like this down to the love of Zelda Twilight Princess ( thank goodness he finished the game this week). He tested very high in one screener the school gave him in kindy, has no problem working 3 or more years ahead of grade level homeschooling. But is he going to show this on an achievement test? I'm skeptical.

He's taking the SCAT this next week as an experiment. I have a feeling he'll rush through it and miss questions he could easily answer correctly. I do hope by doing achievement testing on a regular basis he develops the patience to get through it and jump through someone else's "hoops".

My son's personality style describes him to a T too! (ENP - I'm thinking he'll be a ENTP)