I'm so frustrated. My son has been reading since 2. He got a 166 on the Woodcock Johnson Achievement when he was 4, which put him in the top 1% in reading. Math was a 144, can't remember the %.

According to a teacher friend, she puts him around 5th grade for reading ability. The school however tested him ONLY as high as they will test a Kindy kids, which was end of 1st. They won't assess him higher than that.

So flash forward to starting Kindergarten in August. The teacher said he is the best reader in his school K program -- six classes. BUT, she said she can't accelerate him because he can't write well yet. So, she was just going to keep him with the beginning readers. Okay, I decided we'd live with it because she put him in a 1st grade classroom for math. She said "he is bright" so we need to challenge him. (I was so happy that she acknowledged his abilities that I was happy.)

Well now, she wants to move him back. She said he can't keep up because he doesn't write well. She also said "bright kids" like to learn. She said "he doesn't seem motivated to learn" so she wants him back in a K class.

What should I do? I REALLY don't want to spend the money to IQ test, and I don't think it would change how they respond to him.

I don't know what to do? I'm not sure. Do I let her send him back to K or do I argue to leave him. I don't know?????

Edited to Add: By reading acceleration I just mean in-class acceleration, I'm not even talking about anything radical. The teacher hasn't even placed my son with the top readers because he doesn't write well, even though she said herself that he is the top reading in K. Clearly, writing is important in this school!

I'm not sure I understand her thinking... can't he practice writing numbers by doing 1st grade math?

Maybe his "motivation" issue is really frustration with writing?

I would try to get them to allow him to stay in first for math.

Ask for specific examples of how writing impacts his math and of the "motivation" issue. It's hard for you to address a problem if it's vague...

He's accelerated to 1st for math, but in K for reading? Is there less writing involved in math?

DSs situation was very similar when he began K...he went to 1st for reading, but the writing didn't seem to factor in (and DS has always had poor handwriting). Granted, the 1st grade teacher (who ended up having my DS in her class the next year) always commented on DSs writing and how it needed improvement, but it wasn't a requirement for his accelerated reading instruction.

I think I would have been upset if he'd been pulled back solely based on his underdeveloped writing ability and I might have questioned it.

Cathy,

Great Point! I think I was "surprised" by the conversation and confused that she already made up her mind regarding him being in 1st.

I do think I need to talk to her again and get more details.

I know one probable issue is that my son will tell people "he can't" and "he doesn't know how" when he doesn't want to do something. I feel like he is always rewarded by getting out of stuff. Very few people recognize that this is a kid manipulating them. But I see it ALL the time. So, I can totally see him in math class saying "it's too hard" because he doesn't like to write and he doesn't want to do it. (This is me guessing because I know him well enough to know he pulls this often. I'm not certain this is the problem.)

But when I tell people "he can, he just doesn't want to," I usually get the pushy mom look and people won't push him so he gets rewarded often. This happens everywhere, preschool, sports classes, home, etc.,. When you've seen a kid do something multiple times and suddenly he doesn't know how...you catch on.

JDAx3.

Apparently at his school, you have to respond in writing to all books you read. So his reading group level was based on his written responses (not good) versus his reading ability.

So this is a kid who was still writing single letters as he went into K and now he is expected to write sentences. He just can't do it.

In Math, they had to write a calendar out (spelling days of the week and writing all the days in the month). Apparently, he was struggling with this activity. Forget the fact, that once they get past this lesson on the calendar, he already knows the 1st grade objectives through February/March.

I've been working really hard with him on writing at home because I realize how much this is going to hold him back.

I starting thinking maybe I should get him an IEP for handwriting, then the handwriting wouldn't hold him back so much??? Is this a crazy thought?

Do you live in the US? If so, does your state mandate IEPs or anything at all for gifted children?

Your son's teacher seems to recognize some important things about gifted kids. You might try to send her an e-mail (so she has time to think) saying that there are really two issues: grade-level or below writing and beyond grade-level reading/math. Does she have any suggestions for addressing both things?

Maybe you could suggest that holding your son back in reading and math because he has age-level writing isn't the best solution. Perhaps the school could find a way to help him work on K-level writing while making an accommodation for reading and math.


Hmm. It's really great that she recognizes this idea. Maybe you could ask her how he'll learn from reading class in Kindergarten. Think about how she answers and then ask for her suggestions on how to help him. Does your school have reading buddies? Maybe he could have a reading buddy in a higher grade.

Just my 2c.

Val

I"ve had a really bad day ... I probably shouldn't even post...but this just burns me up. Hold a kid back from reading b/c of writing? My friend, who is a teacher in our district, said that for the first time ever, the number of kids who need math remediation for exceeds those that need reading instruction. Why? Because of all the writing in math. So kids, especially ESL kids who previously excelled at math when it was about numbers, now have issues b/c of so much verbiage and writing involved.

Why can't the teacher simply TALK to your DS about what he's reading? SO kill his love of reading so that he can practice handwriting. Hold him back in math so he can practice writing.

I would definitely follow up on the "he doesn't seem motivated to learn" angle as she'll likely be more receptive to that.

Sigh....I just don't get it. I'll see if my teacher friend can give me sound reasoning for holding a kid back in reading and math due to handwriting.

I don't know enough about IEPs to know if you could get one for handwriting unless there was an issue other than just 'poor handwriting'.

For us, DSs handwriting is just poor due to not being interested. When he has to put some effort into it, he does. His 1st grade teacher used to send him back to rewrite some things because she wouldn't accept "sloppy copies". This worked for DS...he's one of those kids that if the expectation isn't there, he won't rise 'just because'. Not to say this is the issue with your DS, but it's what I know about mine.

If someone had tried to keep him from progressing based just on handwriting, well shoot, he'd probably still be in K or 1st...

Good luck to you and I'm sure you'll get some great advice from the others here.

I don't understand how not being able to write well has anything to do with his reading and math ability. Maybe talk to the teacher and see if he can do things such as telling her about the book instead of writing it down. Just because his brain is far more advanced than other kids his age doesn't mean that his body is!

When my DS was in kindergarten we saw that a lot too. He wasn't willing to fail, so his response to anything he didn't "know" is: "I can't. I don't know how!". Happily he has (mostly) outgrown this--so there's hope

As to other peoples' reactions--how ridiculous and how sadly typical. Do we not insist that other kids try? Do we accept responses of "it's too hard" and "I can't" from students who are working at grade level? It's that whole idea that instruction for students who have met (or exceeded) standards is somehow "extra" and "unnecessary" instruction that should only be delivered if the child jumps up and down and happily begs for it. ALL children deserve instruction. ALL children need to be stretched to the edge of (and often slightly beyond) their comfort zone in order to learn.

Maybe we should put it on a t-shirt....

I remember having an "I can't do it!" moment when I was 9. I was at camp for the first time and had to take a swimming test. The water was freezing and I was so cold, I could barely move (I've always been super-sensitive to the cold). I had never taken a swimming test or group lessons and didn't really understand what was going on.

They kept asking me to do stuff and I stood there freezing saying "I can't!!" It wasn't that I couldn't go underwater or whatever. It was that I didn't understand what they wanted or why they wanted it, and I was focusing on my own agenda, which was to GET OUT OF THE WATER!!!

The result: I was placed in the beginner group.

Kids naturally focus on their own agendas without even realizing why an evaluation exists, let alone being able to consider how it might affect them or how others see them in context of the evaluation (I've even noticed that many young adults don't have this skill fully developed). Explaining things doesn't necessarily help, at least not with the kids I've encountered. Trying to push very young children to deal with school on these terms could be counterproductive on the school's part.

Val

When DS6 was radically accelerated to 4th, one of the major issues was his writing skill. We specifically requested that a provision be written into his IEP that allowed him use of a keyboard for anything that required any length of writing.

The issue here is that I'm not sure you can get an IEP without testing first, can you?

In our area testing is part of the IEP and all you have to do is ask in writing for one and the district is required to give one.

Wolf's teacher is allowing him to dictate things to me because he has a perfectly normal writing ability for a 5 yr old and is doing 1st and 2nd grade work. You can't expect physical development to necessarily mirror mental development. It's also just plain wrong to penalize a kid for having age appropriate physical skills when he deserves education that matches his mental development.

I've noticed that Wolf says "I don't know" as a stock answer. It pops out before his brain even kicks in. It is also a lot more prevalent when he is bored and the work is stuff he already knows, which I find rather amusing...

Yes my son's first inclination is to say "I don't know" then I look at him and he gives me the answer. Exactly, Wyldkat - why would they expect physical development to match mental development? You'd have to argue the converse that a child with beautiful handwriting several years ahead is HG+.

Writing holds him back for reading? We ran into the motor skills issue in 1st when DD was moved to 3rd for reading. The teacher simply made accomodations (for homework I would type it as she recited it to me) or allowed her to tell her what she would have written. It seems odd to hold a child back for something that will occur with time.

Is the problem really handwriting/motor skills or spelling and grammar? My DS4 reads above the 5th grade level but couldn't (or wouldn't) write a complete sentence when he started kindergarten this year. He was a terrible speller, didn't know how to use capital and lower case letters correctly, didn't space words or use punctuation correctly, etc. Realizing all of this, his teacher has decided to devote all of his daily reading instruction time to working on spelling and writing and dealing with the perfectionism that rears its head in the process. This means DS4 isn't getting much reading instruction in school at all, but he is definitely being challenged, his writing is improving by leaps and bounds, and in just a month he's become much more comfortable with making mistakes. So, for now, I'm comfortable with focusing on writing at the expense of reading.

The same was done for my DS. He was reading 2nd grade books in K (highest teacher would go) but the teacher focused on his writing skills which were actually above grade level. So while his books were not challenging, he had to write main character, conflict, setting and resolution. But he was at least at the highest reading level allowed which was 2grades above. The poster indicated the teacher is in fact keeping her DS in the lowest reading group even though he's the highest reader of all K classes. Those are two very different things.

Some ideas -
1) Hothouse writing. Get a copy of handwriting without tear book and do 10 minutes a day afterschool. he will complain - just be firm, and tell him that when he reaches a goal (you'll have to pick a reasonable one) and is practicing writing in school, ahem, that he won't have to do it at home anymore. You may offer a bribe.

2) make an appointment to sit down with the teacher an listen to 'exactly' what her observations and concerns are. Gently introduce the idea of LOG, and that if he is too far below his readiness level, he won't act like a typical bright kid.

3) Don't waste money on an IQ test to 'show the school.' Ask for 'end of year tests' from 2nd and 3rd grade to show them what he knows in their own 'language.' OR say you think he has a learning disability because his writing is so far below his reading (LOL!) and ask the school to do a formal assesment. This request has to be in written hard copy.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

I wish I had a suggestion for you. We had the same problem with my DS7 last year (when he was in public school--we are now homeschooling). The county rule was that he couldn't advance in reading until he matched his reading level in writing skill (not actual handwriting, but being willing to write answers about what he was reading). This was very frustrating to him, because he was being forced to read Judy Moody at school when he was reading medical books (written for med students) at home.

He once wrote on a paper that the questions did not deserve to be answered because they were so obvious. We (teacher & parents) tried to explain that he just needed to answer them to prove he understood the literature. He did not understand why you would have to prove that you know the answer to such simple questions--he just thought they were way too obvious.

Now that he is homeschooled, I've started a new writing program with him that has a very scientific approach. It has taken his fear of writing away, because it is VERY structured. I think he likes it because it helps give his thoughts structure. He definately thinks faster than he writes.

Good luck working through your son's issues. My heart goes out to you!