School Frustration! - 04/15/09 05:10 PM
Ugggg. I never thought it would happen to us. I thought we had DD4 in a progressive school, one with thoughtful administrators and teachers who valued logic, empirical research and doing the best for the kids. Earlier in the year, with DD4 getting bored we approached the school about skipping K and going straight to 1st grade for next year.
Their Answer: "We have never done that here before."
We replied, well, we know her reading is off the charts (she is reading chapter books) what if we get her tested (IQ and Achievement) and we all talk about it with some facts in front of us.
Their A: OK. Get her tested. We'd be happy to talk about it. (Bonus teacher quote from this conference where proceeding with testing was decided upon, "I have never had a child so smart in my entire teaching career. And I am running out of things for her to do.")
Well, we did an IQ test and it was higher than the DYS cut-off. The testing Dr. couldn't do the Achievement test right away, so we took the WPPSI-III result to the school along with many print-outs: several chapters from "A Nation Deceived," a few print-outs from the Davidson website, something on acceleration from Hoagies. I wrote a summary of all the research we presented to the school and gave it to them in a meeting where we presented our case.
Their answer: "Wow. We really learned a lot. Thanks. We'll try placing your DD4 in first grade right now an afternoon or two a week as a test to see how she handles it. We'll have another meeting in a month."
We wait. A month passes. DD never tells us about getting to go to 1st grade. So, we call.
Their answer: "Oh we are very busy. But we haven't forgotten about you."
We wait another two weeks, and DD comes home telling a story of getting to go 1st grade for an afternoon. She reports the work was easy but it was very fun. We get a letter in the mail. It is from the school! Is this our answer! No, it is a re-enrollment form for the next year asking for a large $$ non-refundable deposit for Kindergarten. We call.
Their answer: "We won't make a decision until June because we have to observe your DD until then to see if she is ready. Give us the deposit, and we'll hold a place for you in 1st grade. But on the enrollment form please check off "kindergarten" since we haven't decided yet. But also, we need something else from you in order to decide. We want to talk to an expert, to someone who works with gifted kids. We want to talk to them about acceleration."
We get off the phone and curse our fate! DD's tester, despite telling us how rare DD's score was, had told us she is "anti-acceleration." Her reason: "Oh, it is fine when they are in first grade. But when the are in 9th grade and younger it is too awkward. You have to think long-term here. I have two kids and I wouldn't want my younger one in my older one's high school." Wait-- are you kidding me? You test gifted kids for a living and you are 100% anti-acceleration? Why do you even test kids if you think they all should stay with age mates no matter what the score is? And besides, have you read any of the stuff we're reading? And how do you extrapolate what is best for all kids from your experience with your own kids?
So, we know we need another expert. We still have to do the achievement testing, so we call around locally and ask for prices on the package of: (1) Achievement tests and (2) talking with the school. We have sticker shock. All the other testers want 3x the money that our original tester wanted. We try to think outside the box. Hey! What if we use our original tester for the achievement tests, but use a real expert to talk to the school! We call one of the most famous advocates for PG and HG kids around: an amazing author and advocate who really knows this population. We call. We are able to hire the expert for a long-distance assessment and review of the test scores and a phone meeting with the school. Hooray! We set up an appointment time for the school to speak with the expert. We send test scores and intake forms to the expert. We call the school with the good news: "Hey! We have an expert all lined up-- a world-class expert who actually wrote the book on this stuff!"
Their answer: "We won't speak to the expert."
Us: "What????"
Them: "We will only speak to someone locally who has met the child."
Us: "Well, we have already hired the expert. We have paid for the time. The expert will be sitting around for 45 minutes at our scheduled time. Why not just speak to the expert anyway, it can't hurt, right?"
Them: "No. You are not listening. We will not speak to the expert. We don't care if it is already paid for."
And then came the insane comment of all time, especially for an educator in charge of kids' education, and this is an exact quote:
"We don't want or need to learn anything else about the gifted. Everything we need to know we read in the research you gave us."
Cut to a few weeks later. We have a parent-teacher conference. DD's current teacher tells us she is opposed to acceleration because of DD's size.
She says, "The kids in first grade [through 3rd grade, who all play on the playground at the same time] are too big. Your DD just won't fit in on the playground."
I say, "Well, she just won't fit in the K Classroom. If we have to pick a place for her not to fit, I'd rather have it be recess."
She says, "But it is more than that. A very important part of Elementary school is pushing the lunch cart from the Kitchen to the classroom. It is a big responsibility. If she can't push that lunch cart, it will be a problem socially."
I say, "What if you had a child in your class that had a growth hormone problem and whose growth was severely stunted. Are you going to make them stay in Kindergarten until they are 18 because they cannot take their once-a-month turn pushing the lunch cart?
She says, "[silence, and then] that is all the time we have to talk about this...."
So, discouraged and disappointed, we go to get the achievement tests (WJ-III.) DD4 scores really well. 147 Broad Reading. 154 Broad Math. 147 Broad Written Language. Academic Skills Grade Equivalence: 3.7 (A little past the half way point of 3rd grade.) Brief reading grade equivalence: fifth grade (199 score on the subtest); only two subtests out of the 18 had a grade equivalence less than 2nd grade (one being hand-writing,) and both of those had grade equivalence at the very end of first grade. 12 of the 18 subtests are at or greater than 99.9%. 18 of 21 are above 99%. And we are talking about where DD will be placed next September-- 5 months from now all this grade equivalence will be higher because DD is a sponge! So.....
Our local tester, after seeing these achievement scores reluctantly admits that maybe acceleration, "in this rare case", might be ok.
We call the school to try to set up a time. The school floors us with this gem:
They say [and this is paraphrased because it was slightly-- but only slightly-- more subtle]:n "You are pushy parents. You are those types want DD to be one of those kids that does calculus by 10. [OK, the line about calculus is a absolute direct 100% faithful quote.] We do not think your DD really wants to be in first grade and we think you are pushing this on her. We think she should be protected from your trying to get her to go to college at 14." And then they add, bizarrely, "We still haven't decided and we will give you an answer in June."
Our answer: Dumbfounded, slack-jawed, shock. Do they not get that kids who do calculus at 10 do that because they can and like to? Do they really think the difference between a kid who is doing 5th grade math at 10 and one doing calculus is "pushy parents"? It wouldn't have mattered if my parents were the pushiest people in the universe-- I couldn't have done calculus at 10. But many DYS kids can and it has nothing to do with pushy parents!!! And I just love [<---sarcasm, a rhetorical trait of mine that usually only comes out when I am angry] how the excuses kept changing along the way: (1) We need to talk with an expert. [ok, Here is one. No, we won't speak to an expert!] (2) She is too small physically. (OK. Think that through, it doesn't make sense] (3) We are protecting your DD from you. [ok. no answer to that... because it is lunacy!]
Other lowlights along the way:
Us: There is a boy in DD's class who was held back a year. How is this different?
Them: We hold people back if they are immature. You are asking us to move DD ahead because of academics.
[Do they not see that her abilities are all mixed up with maturity? When she figured out the Santa Claus deception at 3 on her own because, "No one can read minds. If Santa were real he'd have to read all the kids' minds to know what they wanted and that isn't possible. The only people who knew I wanted a dress nightgown was Mommy and Daddy. You are Santa!" Do they not see that this is maturity? Do they not see that when the teacher told us at the first parent teacher conference that DD is, "my little teacher's assistant, because she is so kind and so good at helping all the kids when I [the teacher] am busy" that this is maturity? DD is way more like a 7 year old than a typical 4 year old.
Adding insult to injury: When they said they didn't want to speak with the amazing author / expert, we went to talk to another school. We presented our case. We had a friend, who has known DD since infancy, and who is as involved as any parent can be in the school tell the head of that school about our plight. We had DD's first teacher (who is now at that other school) talk to the head of school explaining that when DD started in her class at 2 and half she was fully reading and that in this teacher's opinion she should be accelerated. The new school's response: "We'd love to do it. But the other school is the best private school in town, and this is a small town. We sit on boards with them and in associations with them and have other mutual interests. If they won't do it [accelerate], we don't want to step on their toes by doing it. It is bad politics."
What is this, private school mafia? Argggggg!!!!!! Are you kidding me!!!!!!
Anyway, I never thought this would happen to us. From all the pretty talk at our fancy private school I always thought it was all about the children. Whatever works for the kids, whatever is best for their education. What a lie. Anyway, I am getting comfortable with the idea of homeschooling next year, and I am actually looking forward to it. And although DD isn't old enough enough to apply for DYS yet, I seriously come close to tears (ok, real tears, right now, it is official) thinking about the generous, extraordinary work that the Davidson Institute does. I am so grateful and happy that there is a counterforce of good, a counterweight of reason, in a world that is filled with administrators and teachers who think that gifted children need to be protected from their parents-- parents who actually want nothing more than that their children have the same opportunity to be challenged and love learning that all the other kids get.
Oh wow, what a rant!. Bu that was a little bit cathartic :-) so thanks :-)
Their Answer: "We have never done that here before."
We replied, well, we know her reading is off the charts (she is reading chapter books) what if we get her tested (IQ and Achievement) and we all talk about it with some facts in front of us.
Their A: OK. Get her tested. We'd be happy to talk about it. (Bonus teacher quote from this conference where proceeding with testing was decided upon, "I have never had a child so smart in my entire teaching career. And I am running out of things for her to do.")
Well, we did an IQ test and it was higher than the DYS cut-off. The testing Dr. couldn't do the Achievement test right away, so we took the WPPSI-III result to the school along with many print-outs: several chapters from "A Nation Deceived," a few print-outs from the Davidson website, something on acceleration from Hoagies. I wrote a summary of all the research we presented to the school and gave it to them in a meeting where we presented our case.
Their answer: "Wow. We really learned a lot. Thanks. We'll try placing your DD4 in first grade right now an afternoon or two a week as a test to see how she handles it. We'll have another meeting in a month."
We wait. A month passes. DD never tells us about getting to go to 1st grade. So, we call.
Their answer: "Oh we are very busy. But we haven't forgotten about you."
We wait another two weeks, and DD comes home telling a story of getting to go 1st grade for an afternoon. She reports the work was easy but it was very fun. We get a letter in the mail. It is from the school! Is this our answer! No, it is a re-enrollment form for the next year asking for a large $$ non-refundable deposit for Kindergarten. We call.
Their answer: "We won't make a decision until June because we have to observe your DD until then to see if she is ready. Give us the deposit, and we'll hold a place for you in 1st grade. But on the enrollment form please check off "kindergarten" since we haven't decided yet. But also, we need something else from you in order to decide. We want to talk to an expert, to someone who works with gifted kids. We want to talk to them about acceleration."
We get off the phone and curse our fate! DD's tester, despite telling us how rare DD's score was, had told us she is "anti-acceleration." Her reason: "Oh, it is fine when they are in first grade. But when the are in 9th grade and younger it is too awkward. You have to think long-term here. I have two kids and I wouldn't want my younger one in my older one's high school." Wait-- are you kidding me? You test gifted kids for a living and you are 100% anti-acceleration? Why do you even test kids if you think they all should stay with age mates no matter what the score is? And besides, have you read any of the stuff we're reading? And how do you extrapolate what is best for all kids from your experience with your own kids?
So, we know we need another expert. We still have to do the achievement testing, so we call around locally and ask for prices on the package of: (1) Achievement tests and (2) talking with the school. We have sticker shock. All the other testers want 3x the money that our original tester wanted. We try to think outside the box. Hey! What if we use our original tester for the achievement tests, but use a real expert to talk to the school! We call one of the most famous advocates for PG and HG kids around: an amazing author and advocate who really knows this population. We call. We are able to hire the expert for a long-distance assessment and review of the test scores and a phone meeting with the school. Hooray! We set up an appointment time for the school to speak with the expert. We send test scores and intake forms to the expert. We call the school with the good news: "Hey! We have an expert all lined up-- a world-class expert who actually wrote the book on this stuff!"
Their answer: "We won't speak to the expert."
Us: "What????"
Them: "We will only speak to someone locally who has met the child."
Us: "Well, we have already hired the expert. We have paid for the time. The expert will be sitting around for 45 minutes at our scheduled time. Why not just speak to the expert anyway, it can't hurt, right?"
Them: "No. You are not listening. We will not speak to the expert. We don't care if it is already paid for."
And then came the insane comment of all time, especially for an educator in charge of kids' education, and this is an exact quote:
"We don't want or need to learn anything else about the gifted. Everything we need to know we read in the research you gave us."
Cut to a few weeks later. We have a parent-teacher conference. DD's current teacher tells us she is opposed to acceleration because of DD's size.
She says, "The kids in first grade [through 3rd grade, who all play on the playground at the same time] are too big. Your DD just won't fit in on the playground."
I say, "Well, she just won't fit in the K Classroom. If we have to pick a place for her not to fit, I'd rather have it be recess."
She says, "But it is more than that. A very important part of Elementary school is pushing the lunch cart from the Kitchen to the classroom. It is a big responsibility. If she can't push that lunch cart, it will be a problem socially."
I say, "What if you had a child in your class that had a growth hormone problem and whose growth was severely stunted. Are you going to make them stay in Kindergarten until they are 18 because they cannot take their once-a-month turn pushing the lunch cart?
She says, "[silence, and then] that is all the time we have to talk about this...."
So, discouraged and disappointed, we go to get the achievement tests (WJ-III.) DD4 scores really well. 147 Broad Reading. 154 Broad Math. 147 Broad Written Language. Academic Skills Grade Equivalence: 3.7 (A little past the half way point of 3rd grade.) Brief reading grade equivalence: fifth grade (199 score on the subtest); only two subtests out of the 18 had a grade equivalence less than 2nd grade (one being hand-writing,) and both of those had grade equivalence at the very end of first grade. 12 of the 18 subtests are at or greater than 99.9%. 18 of 21 are above 99%. And we are talking about where DD will be placed next September-- 5 months from now all this grade equivalence will be higher because DD is a sponge! So.....
Our local tester, after seeing these achievement scores reluctantly admits that maybe acceleration, "in this rare case", might be ok.
We call the school to try to set up a time. The school floors us with this gem:
They say [and this is paraphrased because it was slightly-- but only slightly-- more subtle]:n "You are pushy parents. You are those types want DD to be one of those kids that does calculus by 10. [OK, the line about calculus is a absolute direct 100% faithful quote.] We do not think your DD really wants to be in first grade and we think you are pushing this on her. We think she should be protected from your trying to get her to go to college at 14." And then they add, bizarrely, "We still haven't decided and we will give you an answer in June."
Our answer: Dumbfounded, slack-jawed, shock. Do they not get that kids who do calculus at 10 do that because they can and like to? Do they really think the difference between a kid who is doing 5th grade math at 10 and one doing calculus is "pushy parents"? It wouldn't have mattered if my parents were the pushiest people in the universe-- I couldn't have done calculus at 10. But many DYS kids can and it has nothing to do with pushy parents!!! And I just love [<---sarcasm, a rhetorical trait of mine that usually only comes out when I am angry] how the excuses kept changing along the way: (1) We need to talk with an expert. [ok, Here is one. No, we won't speak to an expert!] (2) She is too small physically. (OK. Think that through, it doesn't make sense] (3) We are protecting your DD from you. [ok. no answer to that... because it is lunacy!]
Other lowlights along the way:
Us: There is a boy in DD's class who was held back a year. How is this different?
Them: We hold people back if they are immature. You are asking us to move DD ahead because of academics.
[Do they not see that her abilities are all mixed up with maturity? When she figured out the Santa Claus deception at 3 on her own because, "No one can read minds. If Santa were real he'd have to read all the kids' minds to know what they wanted and that isn't possible. The only people who knew I wanted a dress nightgown was Mommy and Daddy. You are Santa!" Do they not see that this is maturity? Do they not see that when the teacher told us at the first parent teacher conference that DD is, "my little teacher's assistant, because she is so kind and so good at helping all the kids when I [the teacher] am busy" that this is maturity? DD is way more like a 7 year old than a typical 4 year old.
Adding insult to injury: When they said they didn't want to speak with the amazing author / expert, we went to talk to another school. We presented our case. We had a friend, who has known DD since infancy, and who is as involved as any parent can be in the school tell the head of that school about our plight. We had DD's first teacher (who is now at that other school) talk to the head of school explaining that when DD started in her class at 2 and half she was fully reading and that in this teacher's opinion she should be accelerated. The new school's response: "We'd love to do it. But the other school is the best private school in town, and this is a small town. We sit on boards with them and in associations with them and have other mutual interests. If they won't do it [accelerate], we don't want to step on their toes by doing it. It is bad politics."
What is this, private school mafia? Argggggg!!!!!! Are you kidding me!!!!!!
Anyway, I never thought this would happen to us. From all the pretty talk at our fancy private school I always thought it was all about the children. Whatever works for the kids, whatever is best for their education. What a lie. Anyway, I am getting comfortable with the idea of homeschooling next year, and I am actually looking forward to it. And although DD isn't old enough enough to apply for DYS yet, I seriously come close to tears (ok, real tears, right now, it is official) thinking about the generous, extraordinary work that the Davidson Institute does. I am so grateful and happy that there is a counterforce of good, a counterweight of reason, in a world that is filled with administrators and teachers who think that gifted children need to be protected from their parents-- parents who actually want nothing more than that their children have the same opportunity to be challenged and love learning that all the other kids get.
Oh wow, what a rant!. Bu that was a little bit cathartic :-) so thanks :-)
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They might have had at least enough decency to tell you right away that they wouldn't accelerate your child no matter what. I cannot believe they had you jump through all the hoops just to tell you that you were a pushy parent. I still remember how upset I was when I was on the receiving end of this comment.
