First off let me copy and paste an email exchange

Thanks for sharing DS7's work. I will try to take a look at it this
week. There are certain skills that DS7 should be working on, but he
has been absent a great deal. The few days he has been here he has not
shown much progress in his skills. His work is quite a bit below third
grade level. I am also concerned that he often says he doesn't want to
do whatever it is we're doing, he will go a different direction or make
an excuse for why he didn't do what I asked. "Well, I just wanted to
make these guys over here." - was his response for example, when the
problem set was radial design and symmetry. I think the concept was too
difficult for him because he has missed much of the curriculum for
second and now, third grade, creating large gaps in his knowledge. His
art grade will be an NA - I don't have enough to actually grade him.

Ava

-----Original Message-----


Good Morning!

I thought you might want to see the artwork DS7 has been doing at home
while he was sick. I could really get him to put mark maker to paper,
but He was really interested in making movies. He made three stop
actions. They are on this DVD. The other two movies are documentations
of him working on stuff. This is a copy of a DVD we put together for a
scholarship program.

I don't know if you can count these toward his art grade? maybe?

Anyway I thought you would like to see them.... they are pretty funny.

Second: I am a NYS Certified Art Teacher..... as far as the art curriculum is concerned, she's full of crap..... But DS7 does lag in this area, he's never been a big fan of coloring he loves to draw, but isn't great at it.


Third: DS7 and I discussed the concept of radial summitry, he understands the concept, but did really see the point in making the art work.... his was different.

Fourth: this women has made the following statement to me: "All kids are gifted."

IMO as a professional artist and trained art teacher, her projects are very cookie cutter- she wants everyone to make the same thing, it's not concept based- it's very skill based. So naturally a 7 year old is not going to have the kills of a 9 year old in art making. She is acting this way because she thought the grade skip was a bad idea nd we were just being pushy parents and it wasn't warrented- in other words, DS7's gifts are that we push him.

On top of this you may have noticed that she said he has been out a lot.... something is wrong, and as much as his father and I have tried to deny it, he keeps getting sick and he keeps getting nose bleeds..... something is wrong. We have to take him to the doctor and get her to figure out what.... and, because he is not really really ill..... is sort of sick every other week, it's another argument. Honestly I don't know how much more of this I can take.

Anyway, I know that I have to answer this in a calm focused manner. Please help me write her back..... she is not a bad person, she just doesn't get it.

Hmm Jen,
I see the predicament! Boy she sounds strict! My 1st reaction is come on this is just art! But this is prob why she is upset prob thinks Art is low on your list of academic priorities?
I know I feel this way LOL! I am sorry but come on we will not all be artists so what is the big deal. So what he can't do a radical design etc. My DS6 will prob NEVER be able to do that!
Ok well then what can you do to get her to give him some grade? Maybe ask if he can do some take home work, that she can then grade? I can see us having the same issues when we switch to public!!!!!!!

the school he goes to is an art magnet.... her word pulls a lot of weight believe it or not. That being said, she is not well liked. She won't accept the movies he made at home..... which is quiet a bit of work, and well above third grade I might add.

Why is he at an art magnet if this is not his piece of cake, looks like?

The teacher doesn't come across as mean to me. She is simply making a statement. He hasn't done the work, so he is not getting a grade from her.

My dd was grade skipped from 2nd to 4th (because of her art teacher's recommendation). Because of the grade skip there were things she needed to work on to catch up to the kids in the new grade. Not many, but a few skills that are taught in 3rd grade (handwriting for example). I made it clear to my dd that if she wanted to be in 4th, she needed to do the work 4th graders are doing. Once we decided to let her skip, we no longer treated her as a 3rd grader. Over the summer, she worked on handwriting so she would be ready for 4th grade in the fall. She is further grade skipped in math, but again, I expect her to be able to do the same work as the kids in her math class even though she is much younger than they are.

I am not a great proponent of grade skips, unless the child is ready to take all the work that would be required in the next grade level. Otherwise, I favor acceleration in the specific subject the child is ready for.

As Ania pointed out, why an art magnet?

Our kids are very good at picking cues from us. If you child perhaps senses that you don't think art is such a big deal, maybe he is reacting to that?

well... that's exactly why... we were hoping that he would learn an appreciation if he was surrounded by it. Right, maybe he would pick it up, That was our reasoning.......

And he has to some degree, he has started to love to draw, even though he sort of stinks at it. It makes him happy, so that's good! He has also become very interested in photography and digital imaging, which comes more from home.

He's 7, and draws like a 6 year old.... so he's not great, but in digital imaging, he is like a 12 year old. I know this because this is what I do for a living

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear.... art is a big deal for us! Both my husband and myself have Masters in Fine Art.... we are both Professional artists. We accept the fact that our son lags here, but we were hoping that being surrounded by it would help him.

We did the grade skip because they don't do partial acceleration and wouldn't even discuss it..... it was the first thing we tried for......

DS7 is needed something because he is grade levels ahead in math and english

ien - you are an artist, you have an appreciacion for art and your son will pick it up from you.



Does not look like it is.

it seems like the general concession is I am being unreasonable... ok thanks for the honest responses.... I will have to rethink what she is saying.

I don't see it as being unreasonable. It sounds like your DS's asynchronous skills - lagging behind in art - are hitting a raw nerve with you, because of your profession. That's perfectly reasonable.

Your DS's fine motor skills may lag compared with his peers because he grade-skipped. I'll bet he will catch up. Growth in any area is not necessarily linear, and he may surprise you in the next few months/years.

If it's really vitally important that he learn certain art skills, why not offer a small incentive? My children will attest - I'm not above bribing if the stakes are high.

I didn't mean to sound so harsh. My point was that perhaps instead of fighting the art teacher you could work together and help your ds complete the assigned work.

I appears to me she has some valid points. Your son is very lucky to have you and your husband and I am sure with your help he will catch up. However, I think he needs to hear from you that althought is is great he is having a great time making movies and he can continue to do so in his spare time, it is important to also do the assigned work at school.

I may be alone on this opinion, but I do think that kids need to learn to do something the way they are asked just because. Following directions even if it seems ridiculous at times and even if you don't feel like it is still an important skill. It amazes me how many kids have a hard time with this (including my own DS4). Anyhow, I am not suggesting busy work and that kids should stay in classes where they aren't challenged, but I think that sometimes gifted kids have a harder time with just doing things that an authority figure told them to do. I theorize that part of this is because we praise them with their "oustide of the box" thinking when sometimes they are supposed to be in a box. Wow that was a tangent...but just a thought.

So back on topic...maybe if you could ask her if there is anything in particular that she could assign him and he could do at home (that could be used towards a grade). That may work.

What's gonna work?
Team-work

(you know the song...for those of you familiar with wonderpets)

Jen,

Being an artist myself I see where you are coming from, I really do. Art for a lot of people is so secondary and is why we are losing the fight in the public schools. Art is very important in my life and though I don't expect my child to have the passion and skills I do; I do expect that she will appreciate it and that is all I ask. She does show abilities even at the young age of 2 but if that doesn't come to fruition I am fine with it but I will expect her to have the fundamentals. Fundamentals seems to be the problem here for you and the teacher because art is subjective and she sounds like the type of teacher that demands coloring in the lines. You son already shows an appreciation with his digital and part of the problem is he has skipped some of the basic steps to get to the point. He is already in a specialty that he has passion for and his class is like a 2d design class ... lots of basic boring things.

The famous IF I was in your shoes ... how would I tackle the teacher? It really is a hard one for me b/c I am like you ... forcing the basics can stifle the child and risk their love of it all together. I have seen it happen so many times before. Beautiful free form art gives way to discipline and structure and you are left with no whimsy that made that art brilliant to begin with. Some ideas:

1. talk to your son and find out why he doesn't want to do the work...
2. Make a project at home utilizing his love of digital that incorporates the fundamentals she is trying to teach
3. Hold the digital work as a reward for when he works on the assignment and brings home proof of it.
4. Consider the environment you have him in ... if you can't come to an agreement with her and your reasoning is for him to appreciate art ... you might want to consider that you and your DH have the ability to provide him with that and he just might not need to be in that school. (Of course this is going off of two emails and I do not have the big picture by any means.)

Also feel free to PM me at any time ... artist have to stick together!

WOW I see, an art magnet!!! Hmm boy well then I see she has to be kinda strict them. Can you ask her if you DS can Make up the work he missed???

I am having a problem with her punitive attitude about the grade skip. It's done.

I think I'd approach it from the stance of, "Yes, he has missed more than we would like due to illnesses and clearly he can really use some extra help with art. He *is* a third grader and will remain one, so what can we do to get him to where he needs to be? What can we do at home or in class to help you to help him? What would you recommend for any other third grader who was behind?"

Take the skip out of the equation. (Since it doesn't really belong there anyway...)

He doesn't hate making hands on art, actually he loves it! he just doesn't have any skill. And on top of it, he is two years younger then the rest of the kids....

So his stuff looks bad. I look and giggle.... I always smile to him and we talk about what he makes, we are encouraging.

Her expectation is that he will have the skill of a 3rd grader. We have discussed this.

As far as the absences go, she will not give me the work for him to do at home. She is not willing to work with us.

She has told me that she was against the grade skip because she felt it was unwarranted because there is no such thing as gifted. "All children are gifted" her exact words.

However, when we discussed the grade skip I was pushing for a partial grade skip, basically for this very reason..... I was assured this was not an issue.

So really her and I are on the same side, if they had done what they should have in the first place and looked for other alternatives.... maybe put a class of gifted kids together or at least explored on-line classes. Then we wouldn't be here now.

That's a good idea..... I have to be totally calm when i write this

Just wanted to chime in that it sounds like he has real talent, and it's really cool you are trying to let him grow in the direction he needs to... I suppose the only leg the teacher has to stand on is the absences, so she is using these. It's a shame, you have to find out what's up medically, perhaps some note(s) from the doctor to help her get some perspective on the big picture?
And I think make-up work would be the way to go, if she allows it.

Hi Jen,
I dk why schools are not open to partial skips or pull outs for certain subjects. I completely understand. I will be in the same boat in sept when we switch to public. I really dk what to expect. I am hoping my DS6 can be pulled out for math or reading or simply given different work. I dk what will happen. For my DS skipping will not be good. He is w/8 year olds now and is having issues. He knows he will go to a new school in sept and he said he had a dream there will be 8 year olds and they will tease him. I am going to put him w/kids his age. I dk what wil happen w/the academics. Your sons Art teacher is clueless if she thinks all kids are gifted. All kids are special in there own way. But come on all kids are not on the same level academically. If a 12 year old was forced to do 5 year old work that would be horrendous right?
Why are our kids supposed to be forced then to do work they did years ago. That is what gets me everytime. Why is it ok for our kids to just sit there and learn nothing. UGH!! I could go on and on and on LOL!

There is no truer statement. I have kids in my home that are way below grade level in certain subjects. You work with what you have. Whether it's a learning disability, age or lack of knowledge. Everyone finds it so easy to blame everything on skipping!

Hmm, I totally agree that the art teacher is perhaps holding to a line in the sand that may not apply to your son. But, from the other side, if this is an art magnet school, can it be assumed that the level of art produced by the students may be above what would be expected in a normal 3rd grade art class? If so, in her mind the skip is probably not in the best interests of her class or your son. His art skills are not above average for his age based on the cousework she is teaching. Added, to that is that her student (your son) is not completing the assignments when he is in class and is missing even more classes. Many teachers would fail the student out of hand, rather than give a not graded score.

I think Kriston hit it on the head to take the skip out of the discussion and talk about what can be done to help a struggling student.

However, your son like mine is not helping his case by not completing his assignments when he is in class. My son is subject advanced in Math. This means that he is expected to meet (or exceed) the bar of the fifth graders even though his fine motor skills and organizational skills are below his chronological age. His teacher does not make any exceptions for him just because he is younger.

I certainy wish you well, and hope that you, your son and the school can find a meeting ground to help with this problem.

well, I have been assured that my son will pass 3rd grade even with the absences and the no grade in art. She says that she has all this experince with gifted kids, and I think she believes that my son is a bright little boy, but not gifted.

She hasn't seen his test score and I think is basing this only on his behavior. I don't think she knows how old he is either.

I emailed her back asking what we could do..... she responded by not answering once again. She was against the grade skip and so, since we disagreed with her she is not willing to work with us.... to bad so sad.

Oh well.

See, that just makes me mad. She's punishing the child. Even if it was the wrong decision--and I'm not AT ALL saying that it was!--but even if it was, it's not HIS fault!

I really have a problem with people who behave that way!

How long did you give her to respond? If more than a few days, I'd try once more. If no response to the second try, I think it will probably be time to escalate to the administration. You deserve a response.

Oh no she responded, she basically just said the same thing. Said he isn't like the other 3rd graders but offered no solution.

But still no actual response to the question about what to do, huh? If not, then it's time to escalate! (IMHO, of course...)

We are moving him to a different school in the district..... not only because of her, there are a lot of other reasons. The school he is going to has a better science program, and the whispers are the district are that is is much better organized.

So where does that leave you? Are you just shrugging it off for the last couple of months of school this year?

yeah.... trying to