I'm wondering how many of you are in this position and how you have dealt with it:

You've gotten over your OWN gifted denial, you've done the reading and educated yourself, and you know that regular school is not working for your child. You know the importance about providing opportunities to turn gifts into talents. You know the dangers of not providing adequate challenge for your child.....

but your spouse is just NOT on board. S/he denies child is gifted, or, without doing any research on the topic, has bought into all the annoying things we always hear-- dd/ds will "even out" with other kids by grade 3, ds/dd isn't smart because doesn't know math facts well, or doesn't read well (i.e., is not gifted in one of many domains of giftedness)

Or, disagrees with the collective wisdom of the experts about how various ways to nurture the gifted child, for example, is totally against homeschooling/afterschooling/acceleration, thinks summer talent search programs a waste of time, doesn't believe in yearly out-of-level testing, etc., etc.

This is a great question; DH was definitely skeptical about 'labeling' but the more I talked about what was up with ds6 then7 then8...the more things made sense to him about his own issues from 2nd grade on. He was grade skipped but still things never worked out for him in school (EG+). My opinion is that he certainly needed more than 1 skip and then some.
He absolutely does not want ds being as miserable/bored as he was.

Dh still rolls his eyes when I mention this forum, lol, but the other day he did say how grateful he was that I was really digging into this for the kids.

I can share one small success with getting DH involved and how it happened:

DH is now afterschooling DS9 in math, and DS9, who threw world-class tantrums with all of my earlier attempts to afterschool in math with workbooks, Singapore math, or Aleks, is actually paying attention and doing the work, and having a decent attitude about it. Math isn't really DS's strong area, and he rebels at being forced to do anything he can't do perfectly or understand perfectly without any explanation. Now, he's doing the math without squabbling.


It's really just because DH finally took a look at DS's math curriculum and decided it was just not up to snuff for any child. I gave him a link to a website of another parent who had gotten a hold of the teacher guide and year-by-year curriculum, and had gone through it point by point. DH previously taught math in various public colleges around here, and was always appalled with the lack of math understanding he saw in some of his students. He suddenly realized his own son might become one of those people who didn't have automatic recall of number facts or didn't know how to do long division.

I also gave him a link to a parent site that ran through the NYS regents exam for Algebra I, and how students could get something like a 38 percent or 46 percent on a mostly multiple choice test and still pass it.

I'd previously discussed the very same issues, but it just didn't register with him until he saw it in writing from some nameless source on the internet! Also helpful, none of it was framed as a "gifted" issue.

The school uses TERC,"now re-aligned to NYS standards!" (i.e. dumbed-down to match the dumbed-down NYS NCLB tests). There is no attempt to teach the kids speed or accuracy with computing, and in the end, TERC leaves out important concepts and algorithms as well.

So,for about two weeks now, DH and DS have done Singapore Math, 4th grade A. DH didn't have him do the screening test b/c he thought it would be too disheartening for DS. He's "remediating" as they go, whenever they come across something DS hasn't learned about yet. He's doing a combination of math facts timed tests my husband generates via some website and the Singapore Math text book, workbook, and Challenging Math Problems. He's enjoying the challenging math problems!

DH thinks that DS is not crying or complaining simply because DS knows that tantrums won't work with dad. DH is also much better at teaching than I am, and endlessly patient, because he thinks anyone can "get" math if they just apply themselves enough. (After all, he got a PhD in math and he's not "gifted") LOL

bk

BK1 (makes me think Burger King lol): can you post the link to the site that looks at the NYS regents exam for Algebra I? I have a friend who would be interested!

Thanks,
Dazey

Dazey:

Here's that link you asked for:

http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com/2008/06/nys-algebra-regents-national-joke.html

The raw score required for passage of the NYS algebra regents was less than 35 percent.

I chose BK, since it is an abbreviation for my borough, but now I'm thinking I should be getting advertising revenue from the Home of the Whopper!

bk1

Hey bk1. Congrats on DYS. I think was the turning point for DH with our DS8. Actually, several months later was the turning point after we started HSing DS and DH saw what he could do. But before that, he'd say "I just don't see it." DYS also helped with the grandparents who had a hard time with all of DS's out of the norm behaviors (all of which seem to have disappeared, btw, now that he's out of school - but that's another story). For the grandparents, I sent them a link to DYS and a copy of Genius Denied. Then I got a phone call saying I saw DS in that book, etc. It just helped in our situation to have that validation - especially since DS was not shining in school. So I hope things turn around in your family, too. And I know NYC schools are impossible. Sorry for that, too. Chances are, however, that you are not missing out by missing out on those schools. Good luck.

Thanks, your stories are encouraging to hear.

bk1 -
That's a wonderful victory. Sounds like you are making some headway.

I venture to guess that in every couple there is one who 'leaves denial behind' first.

It is a process.

I would strongly suggest 2 things:
1) Set up a playdate, to be supervised by DH, with a child who your son gets along with somewhat, who is as close to Normally Developing as you can find. A couple of hours 'close up' with a 'regular kid' can be an eye opener. This also sets the stage for suggestion 2.
2) Demand that DH be a classroom observer and watch what it's like to sit in school all day. Then DH will realize that the normal child who came over the other day isn't a 'horrible exception' - he's is the majority, and the target of the school's teaching.

It isn't unusual for Gifted Adults to look at their friends and family members and assume that they are all normal, except maybe for the one most obvious one. Then when faced with some normal product of a system aimed toward normal kids, they think that the system MUST be broken!

I wrote into a Parenting Magazine that the 'easy cure' for a 3 year old asking 'Why?' all the time, was to reply 'Nature' or 'Custom.' It worked for us and I really thougth that I had discovered something new and important. LOL! That suggestion went over like a lead ballon. ((shrug)) I just didn't understand!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Ugh! Yes. Dh is totally onboard ... But ex-h, ds6's father, doesn't "believe" in giftedness. He says ds6 is "just a normal little boy with normal little boy interests," and that ds6 is simply "well-parented." Well congratulations, sir, on parenting your child all the way to PG! That man should get a cookie.

Ex-h is refusing to have anything to do with DYS now that ds is in, saying it's a waste of time and resources. Hello!? It's free! He won't do our telephone conference but expects me to take notes to feed back to him, which he'll then poo-poo anyway.

I'm fed up to my ears with this guy. He's ruining ds's opportunities with DYS by simply refusing to open his mind to the possibility that we might be dealing with something a little unusual here.

Luckily, my dh *is* on board ... But unluckily, ex-h is the one I have to work on! It's ridiculous. No words of wisdom, but condolences!

My ex is finally on board .

The turning point for us was when he started to bring my dd8 to a Sunday math club and actually stay for the sessions. Most kids in this club are 3+ years older than my dd and the subjects they are studying are not "normal" school curriculum (mostly problem solving, number theory and other advance topics).

Just a year ago he swore under oath (in court) that she "was just a normal kid and wasn't gifted at all". Now he drives her to her math club and her robotics meetings every other weekend. He is teaching her computer programming (his field), volunteering at her school and actually discussing and showing interest in her schooling. He actually made a comment that our dd was very fortunate to be in the school she is in right now (never mind the fact that he fought very hard to get her out!)

Who knew that simply forcing him to observe her in a math club would achieve what a court couldn't do?

((hugs)) Mia,
See if you can get your family consultant to be the one who takes notes and sends them to him via email - perhaps that will get you out of the middle of things a bit. Also, request a phone consult with Sylvia Rimm on how to co-parent with your XH, if that's still a possiblity - she is really good with 'modern realities.'

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Ooh, thank you, Grin, I'll do that! I never would have thought to ask the consultant to send notes on. Thank you!!

He's just sooo frustrating... The kid may be well-parented , but I do believe there's just a *bit* more to it!

Mia,
Does XH have any special interest that overlap with education? It is possible that he is having the same gifted denial that you and I had years ago...or that he's being difficult just to be difficult. Again, having him spend time with normal children is one way out. Harder to arrange from a distance.

I remember all while I was growing up, my Mom making 'little comments' about 'how stupid the game companies were to write the wrong ages on the 'suggested playing ages' on game like Monopoly. Gifted denial starts early, we learn it from our loved ones, and dies hard. What were his parent's attitudes towards intellectual differences?

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Grin-- I pm'd you.

Congrats on DYS!!

Acceptance to DYS went along way with the gifted denial around here. My DP when "hit over the head" by the pros, relented and admitted that DS6 is not your average little boy.

Now she's completely freaked out that he grow up "as normal" as possible. Since every movie she's ever seen portrays gifties as functional wierdos...

Gotta love those stereotypes...NOT!

Unless she is very young, I imagine that she has seen plenty of other groups portrayed as weirdos in movies as well? I'm still waiting for the gifted eqivalent of Ellen Degenerous and Mellissa Ethridge to 'come out' as having grown up gifted and underchallenged in school and being openly lovable while showing the uniquness of their mind. I think that we are less than 10 years away - would anyone like to start a betting pool on who will step forward and show that a person can be totally brillient, totally lovable, and not one bit wierd?

Hmmm...Well, I don't fit the bill!

I'm certainly weird, I'm not always very lovable, and I'd never call myself brilliant...

I did grow up GT and I'm happy and reasonably well-adjusted. Think that would do?

Bianc850,

I'm so happy to hear that things have improved.

I think that my point was, that if a group of people grows up thinking that they are 'different in a bad way' then they grow up to act this out, and even if they don't - the media will portray that they do. It's what the media does.

Take the same group, surround them with love, understanding, positive role models and what they need for a healthy self-image (some social time with mental peers and challenging academics in the case of Gifties) and they grow up with the same challenges as anyone else and their own unique and valuable strengths.

We happen to live in a society where members of a group don't feel 'validated' until there is a popular movie, a TV show, and a couple of celebrities that share the identity. Now that's what I call weird! ((wink))

Grinity

Yup, I hear you. We like our role models in this country!

The playdate thing is an eye opener for sure.



Good point, but it was not too long ago that group identification meant life or death as a normal part of human society.

I actually have a friend that refers to my son as "little man Tate". It makes me crazy!!