DD is in 7th grade. Per my previous posts on the forum, DD has dealt with social struggles, fights to academically challenge her, random gifted issues, and there was also concern about ADHD (inattentive). There are some other items, but I can’t post them for privacy sake. Thus, we have been on the therapist train. We have now seen at least 4 or 5, and every one of them has their own view of what might be going on and how to help her. Some just tested her (WJ, ADHD assessments, etc). DD will not go to a therapist anymore (she thinks they are creepy and just out for the money). I just starting going to a psych who specializes in gifted kids for help with parenting (DH goes when he can).
I am on here occasionally, and I thank goodness this place exists, because without it, I would really be at a loss. It’s rather scary right now, parenting DD. And confusing. The new psych. said DD is a puzzle, and she stated she was going to go to a colleague to discuss the case. No wonder DH and I don’t know what direction to take.

The current state of DD:
The bad - angry (words, not violence), hates school (except electives), hates her sister, says she doesn’t like people (except those who have proven trustworthy), intense (oh my gosh) (gets chastised at school for having “too much to say”) miniature lawyer, gets called “weird” at school by some and has been bullied, anxious (forgetting what she knows on math tests, has come out with the fact that crowds are very stressful for her), sarcastic, little empathy for others, checked off on a personality assessment that “the world would be better off without her.” You all know just how hard that is to hear about one’s child. Diagnosed with ADHD, inattentive type, assessments suggest depression and anxiety. Then there is something else; we just can’t put our finger on it. She can engage with others sometimes, but often it is such a struggle to communicate with her. She would much rather do art or read. I have never ever had longer than a 5-10 minute conversation with her without having to pull her back in from drawing or reading unless we are on a walk or sometimes at bedtime. She hates to share her inner world because it’s her “personal information”.

The good – DD has found a couple of people who she likes (texts like crazy with them) snuggled with me over Thanksgiving (she started becoming sweeter the longer she was out of school), was offered a whole grade acceleration 2 years ago, and accelerated 3 years in math. She is intense in soccer ,and says she likes Girl Scouts, and her school book reading competition. She is funny as anything (I can’t post her political cartoons because everyone is too raw from the election). She was great at debate this summer at a gifted summer school and likes art and band at school. She gets straight A’s without trying (although hates math because she says she has to work at it, and “it only has one right answer”). She spends lots of time helping a friend play an instrument (so does have empathy sometimes!!).

I just want DD to make it alive and well through adolescence. We are trying to figure out if we target the depression and/or the anxiety OR if the ADHD is the underlying cause. Psych. wonders if DD even has ADHD or if it’s just the giftedness business. Psych. really stresses the giftedness aspect of DD and wants us to understand how that affects her. Do we pull her from school to homeschool (lots of opportunities here)? DD does not want to but do we overrule her decision? She is only 11! Meds? It’s all on the table. If the psych thinks DD is a puzzle how are we to feel?? Sorry for the novel. I am just so worried about DD.

Could there be things going on in the school environment that is impacting her in ways that even she is not aware of? your comment about her becoming sweeter the longer she is out of school seems to point to hidden factors there. Middle school is very rough. Could it be that she sees the differences between her and others too acutely, even if they don't see that big to you/others? Differences can be a big deal in one's head even when everyone else thinks it is nothing. A part of me would say to look into homeschooling if that would help her depression and anxiety but I don't know your DD other than what you say.

If she is not allergic to animals, have you looked into things like horse back riding/stable work or working with dogs? I remember being a bookworm (the MS librarian and I were on very good terms, with her saving me new books to read and I loved spending time with her - while the rest of the students were terrified of her since she was strict about how the library ran) - and I loved being able to lose myself in other worlds in my own head. I also loved being able to just hang out in the stable with horses and work with horses - and not have to deal with people and ever changing social rules etc. (my mom never understood why I loved being in stable for as long as I was allowed on the days I had horseback riding, but at least she accepted that it was important to me even though none of my friends rode).

Can it be that there are just too many people around her daily that she appears to lack empathy because it is too overwhelming with too many people pulling her (even if it is just internal struggles) or too many changes on social/physical levels? You can not help others if you are too overwhelmed yourself.

I don't have any easy answers, but just want to empathize because your DD sounds so much like mine (confusion over ADHD or not, anger, refual to continue with therapy, occasional lack of empathy, anxious, negative, socially somewhat isolated, only interests are art and band). This sentence could be written by me: ' just want DD to make it alive and well through adolescence. We are trying to figure out if we target the depression and/or the anxiety OR if the ADHD is the underlying cause." Middle school is hard for a lot of kids, I think, but some are better at hiding it. My DD has mentioned homeschooling, but in reality she doesn't really mean it.

Just throwing it out there, as it's hard to know what would work for any given individual, but have you ever thought of getting her a life coach or behaviour coach? I've never had much use for therapists myself because I felt that talking about problems and feelings only puts more emphasis on those thoughts and feelings. But a life coach or behaviour coach is much more practical and focuses on the different aspects of life that need improving.

We realized early on (when he was about 3) that we would need help guiding DS6 through life, and getting a behaviour coach to help us help him has been the best thing we've done for him yet. By way of examples, she has helped him deal with impulse control, his perfectionistic tendencies, as well as his "big" feelings. He's still working on all of it, but at least he's (mostly) headed in the right direction. It was important to find him someone he could trust, as he sometimes tells her things he's not willing to share with us. We would've been willing to keep looking until we found the right person too, otherwise it wouldn't have worked.

For what it's worth, she's lucky to have you. Good luck!

I don't have much insight to offer but I wonder if her resistance to homeschooling is because she really doesn't think it will work or if it is more of a devil you know vs the devil you don't type thing.

I say this because last year DS was very reluctant to switch schools. He HATED school, had 1 maybe 2 friends, had zero enrichment, etc but yet he was so scared of the unknown that he didn't want to move. We eventually talked through his concerns and made a list of pros and cons for both sides. In the end we agreed that he would try it out for a few months and if it wasn't working for him it would be his choice at that point. The transition was a bit rough but in the end he's much happier and it has been a raving success.

I can totally relate to the scared, confusion, chaos, etc. Hope you're able to figure out something.

That is exactly what ds7 needs. I doubt they exist here but how did you go about finding one.

I played detective today while we were driving. I finally pulled out of her that she hates the classes where the kids don't behave. She gets very stressed by the kids who act out, talk back to the teacher, etc. Now I know why she always likes the stricter teachers - they keep a lid on the class.


She works at the SPCA and does some dog training. She gets very upset when our dog doesn't behave in dog class. She wants the dog to be perfect! I watched her tonight during class - her body language indicated that the dog's mistakes just pained her (she was clenching her fists, twisting her body). Perfectionism at play via the dog!!!!

I wonder about that. I will say that she has never shown sympathy towards anyone in the family, never mind empathy. I think I could break my leg, and DD would just worry if I would be able to drive her to school. My other DD is sweet about helping or concerned if I had a headache. This just bothers me. DH and I talked with one of the psychs. about spectrum possibilities, but that psych. didn't feel that was it.

DH figures DD doesn't want to be viewed as any more different than she already is (no one we personally know home schools although this is a very "homeschooly" area). Dd claims she will not do it because she spent so much effort making friends last year that she doesn't want to waste all that work.
One of the plans at the beginning of the year was for DD to check out a home school co-op or class. Regular school got in the way; we just got too busy to add on something else.

She sounds like she has some wonderful qualities. Besides the perfectionism (which can be quite an issue despite its popular appeal), could it be some introverted traits that come out and cause these reactions/stresses? I learned a lot from Susan Cain's book "Quiet" that helped me understand why I am not my best self at times, say in crowded social gatherings or after too much noise for too long.

As I stated above, I asked her a bit about school today. I forgot some of your questions and will try again tomorrow to talk with her. She did say she learns some new things in school. Must not be too hard though. She never studies although I try to get her to "practice" studying. I look forward to hearing her answers.

I was where you are last year with my DD. She is also 11, a DYS. I was very, very concerned about her, as she hated school and she has always been SUPER-intense. We feared we were going to have a 10-year-old drop out. It was BAD. I love her dearly, but she is fiercely independent and not easy to parent.

We were lucky - she had a natural change in schools and the switch has been amazing for her. She happens to be in more challenging classes (including some acceleration, adding increased EF challenges, but not overwhelming to her), but with an even bigger school, she has met even more kids like her - we are lucky to live in a community where she is able to find so many peers...she does not "click" with everyone. Her friends? Quirky. SMART, creative - and it seems like this year she is just so much happier. She kept her old friends and made some great new ones. Breathing a sigh of relief and hoping something like this can happen for your DD. It is hard. I understand your concern. (((Hugs))) and we are here for you.

@Loy58 - You have no idea of how happy reading the above post made me :-)

greenlotus, I don't have much advice and also don't want to ask anything here that's private for you and your dd. Some of what you wrote echos things we've experienced with one of our children, who's been through some trauma when she was extremely young. The need for perfectionism, need for others to follow "rules", seeming lack of empathy etc. I don't have any idea if any of that might apply to your dd, but only mention it in light of - those are big things to deal with, and they are also things that are somewhat easy for a high-ability child to somewhat cope with without help from others, so they can build up a world that where they feel like they are coping, yet it relies on a lot of things going one way and doesn't allow for much to flex, and when the world naturally doesn't align perfectly with that structure that makes a child feel secure - I hope that makes sense!

The second reason I mention it is just that things got a lot more emotional and difficult to deal with going through early puberty.

Sorry I don't have any specific advice about how to deal with things, I think you're already doing a wonderful job of trying to help your dd and trying to understand her. Hang in there!

polarbear

I can totally understand this sentiment. At least for me, some of it is a sense of keen injustice - why do they get away with this and ruin it for rest of us? And for me, it made it harder for me to focus on what I considered important or collect my own thoughts on the subject.

is it possible that for her, she feels like that the dog's mistakes is a reflection of her failures, rather than the dog itself is not is not cooperating at that time?



Oddly, some of these things you say sort of reminds me of me - and I remember my mother used to lecture me that everything did not have to be so black and white or so absolute. I was extremely literal and extremely rigid (I still have some of that, but managed to learn to see more grey and gotten less rigid over time - or as a friend said a while ago, I have mellowed out some).

I would be curious as to how your DD would view things like "honor code" and stories such as the knights of King Arthur - and whether she would be sympathetic based for instance on grownups vs kids etc. Because I am pretty sure my mother would have said some similar things about me. I can remember having a protective streak towards younger kids and fighting back when some kids tried to bully me or my friend(s) on the middle school bus (which freaked the bullies out) and yet I definitely recall having a lack of concern over bigger/older kids or grownups - basically, I could not believe that they would actually feel pain or hurt like me because they were invincible in my mind and I attributed a level of stoicism to grownups that I know now is unrealistic. I am wondering if there is any similarity there... if she is more absolute than you, there could be some differences in your perspective vs hers.

(I remember my mother saying that she was so worried about how rigid and absolute I was as a child, and how hard it was for her to understand my way of thinking - due to the challenges I had, she was well aware that it has influences on me that she could not understand but she still had many frustrating moments because in some ways, our personalities were so different and our reactions to same things were basically opposite.)

We went to see a psychiatrist to talk about his anxious personality. We didn't think he'd end up being diagnosed with anxiety, and he wasn't. But we really wanted to give him the necessary tools to manage his feelings, emotions and behaviour to avoid having it spin out of control. She proposed working with a child guidance consultant/therapist, and she recommended one. It's been incredibly helpful and I would highly recommend it.

Thanks to all of you! Even if I didn't respond to each and every person, I carefully read all your posts. It's very scary to have one's child say they think the world would be better off without them. She had also checked on the assessment that she had thought about suicide. DH and I had a conversation with her about suicide (with notes from the psych). She said "of course" she had thought about it. And then she goes on to say she had read a couple of books in which a character kills themselves so "philosophically" she had thought about suicide. That's why she answered the assessment the way she did. She didn't plan to do it herself. She is so frustrating!!!!!

I really appreciate the support here.