We meet with our son's school tomorrow morning to discuss evaluation results. Since we pursued the evaluation on our own, I am not giving them a full report.

He did not do as well as anticipated on the WISC-V. GAI 120. His processing speed was lower than other areas, and he had some processing issues on another test he took.

When we discussed the results with the doctor, he stated external factors could have played a role in the results. For one, he has anxiety and scored himself pretty high on social anxiety issues. For two, there is some inattentiveness going on, but nothing diagnosis worthy. We need more information. Additionally, anxiety can present as distraction, inattentiveness, and uncontrollable behavior, so it's really hard to tell exactly what the underlying issue is.

We know he has some perfection issues....he stated he worries about not doing things right. He shuts down if he thinks he can't do something. Not an uncommon issue. We don't have a lot of testers around here with experience in testing gifted kids. They're experienced in testing LDs and ADD/ADHD type of stuff. In hindsight, I really should have found SOMEONE with more experience with gifted kids, but nothing I can do now.

Here's the thing. DS had an anxiety last week. The principal did not react in a positive way, threatening my child and stating his reaction was because he didn't get his way. It is obvious that she, along with some of the other professionals, does not understand how anxiety can present in children. He's very high energy and an extrovert. He does not shy away in a corner. He rather make people laugh....after all, then he's controlling it.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can better explain what is going on with this child and why he needs additional support and more challenges in the classroom? I'm hitting a wall and becoming very frustrated with what I feel a total disregard to listen. We have tried having his psychologist reach out. They refused to maintain contact with her. Thank you.

Yikes!! Your principal sounds horrible! I wish I had something to useful for you, except hugs. My DS has anxiety too, and it doesn't always look like people think it should look.

How old is your DS? Did he cooperate with the tester beyond the inattentiveness? If he was extremely anxious it could have resulted in him "blanking out" (that's how anxiety affects me).

I don't have any suggestions for how to deal with a horrible principal, unfortunately, especially when they won't even talk to the psychologist. How is your son's teacher this year?

Anyway, I hope you find some answers. This is a great place to find them

Hugs... I've been there. Had a principal once react very badly to one of DS's anxiety attacks myself. I'll get back a bit later today with suggestions I need a time to formulate my answer and I'm going out the door right now.

It does seem difficult to convince anyone that class-clown behavior can be an anxiety symptom, but yeah.

Is your DS' verbal ability a strength for him? For mine, high verbal ability + poor social insight = making jokes. I think it's his social currency, because he truly is very funny.

Does your DS struggle with social skills, along with social anxiety? It might be helpful to get some help in that area (with counseling, etc.) I'm not sure you'll ever convince the principal to see this for what it is--but it might help if DS felt more competent making social connections through some more positive behaviors.

I'm just starting this again for this year (my 8yo seems to have anxiety and outbursts--couldn't even make it through one week, so it's time to chat with her new teacher!). We're finally asking for an eval. So I've just been reading that you can get a 504 for that. Sounds like it might be worth it in your case so you can get some appropriate responses in place for when the anxiety causes a disruption. Just some beginning info, I'm sure there are lots who have really been through it who can speak with greater insight.

DS is six, almost seven. I'm not really sure how he did in testing. The doctor we met with was not the tester. And the tester was not the one to provide the results. All very odd to me. He basically answered our questions based solely on the results of the tests rather than any observations.

The principal is young and she's just starting her second year, so I'm sure she didn't MEAN to react the way she did, but doing so can have detrimental effects.

Yes, his verbal ability is a strength and he's very quick to point out errors in what others say (mostly me). He actually does quite well with peers; however, he will attach very tightly to one peer and one adult at the school. When he can't be near that child, it's a problem for him. He'll be "defiant" in trying to be close to the other child.

He's an extrovert and has no issues talking to kids. For a while, he really had a hard time getting to know kids because I think he came on too strong. Now he says, "Other kids think I'm weird, but that's okay because they think it's funny." I don't really know how to take that!

Bluemagic, I'll keep checking in.

(I did print off the DSM-V criteria for anxiety, panic attacks and ADHD. The principal is going to hate me).

Is this a SST (Student Study Team if your in a US public school) meeting or just a meeting with the principal? Don't be scared of a SST, it just means the meeting with have more than just the principal and is often the first step needing to get a 504.

You certainly should go to this meeting with the idea that the principal didn't mean to react the way she did. The key her to talk as if you are ALL ON THE SAME team. Keep your animosity towards how she behaved as a minor point/example as to how not to react. It's hard because so many people see this type of behavior as defiant when it really the child just becoming overwhelmed and it's hard to get them to see it that way.

The first thing to do is get everyone to agree on what the problem. Using my son's anxiety attacks in 6th grade as my example. What I agreed with my son's principal & teacher was it was "inappropriate for my son to be throwing fits in class". It's important that you acknowledge that there is a problem but try and reframe it so you talk specifically about behavior that is the problem and defer labeling until you can get everyone to agree to this step. If you can do this it should help facilitate your introducing why you believe the behavior is happening. DON'T SKIP THIS STEP.. if the principal tries to move on too fast keep trying to bring her back to this until you agree on the problem first. If you can't agree on the problem you won't be able to agree on a solution.

Only after agreeing about the problem should you move on to discuss why it's happening, the anxiety, and the potential solutions. Break the solutions down to three important steps. 1) How to lower his anxiety thus prevent attacks in the future. 2) How a teacher can recognize and defuse the situation when he gets anxious. 3) What to do if he overreacts again, and this is where you can bring up the principals inappropriate reaction.

Part one is going to be the most complex and you still may need to do more testing understand it all. You will probably not come up with a full solution tomorrow but you might find short term things to try for #2 & #3. The anxiety needs to be address for your son to be overall successful at school and might end up needing at 504 or IEP.

While at the meeting in order to look like I was working with them. I wrote down all their suggestions even if I thought they wouldn't work and said I'd look into them. I did things to show that I was activity working on the problem at home. In DS's case I explained that I was hiring out outside psychologist to work on his anxiety with him. I also agreed to have DS work with the school social worker, I thought it unlikely to help but my son said he did get some useful techniques from her.

My DS was in 6th grade and just turned 12 when we had the biggest problems. What we did that spring was 1) had him work with a private psychologist, talk about the fact that much of the stress was because of that particular class, school & teacher and he would be moving to junior high in the fall. Teacher modified the amount of work on some assignments. 2) He learned from both the school social worker & his psychologists how to recognize an attack was happening. He learned how to putting his head on his desk, closing his eyes and counting would calm him down. This was also a sign to the teacher who wouldn't make a big deal about his doing this. My son & the teacher worked out a code between them so he could alert my son he was starting to lose it. (It's not uncommon for those having anxiety attack to not know they are having them.) 3) If he went into full mode, he was to be allowed to go somewhere quiet to calm down. If that didn't work I would get called and take him home for the rest of the day.

I had the most problem with implementing #3. The principal thought my son should be able to talk about what triggered his attack immediately afterwards. I came to pick him up once to find the rest of class taking recess early and the principal & aid had him cornered in the classroom trying to get him to talk about what happened and then they expected that he would just open up when I arrived. While both the principal & the teacher were trying they still a long way to go to understanding anxiety. Usually after an attack my son couldn't even remember why it happened.

What I didn't do then but should have was have a full neuropyc workup. When I finally did we found out DS has low working memory and processing speed and this probably aggravates his stress level.

Thank you. This is all very useful information. He is seeing an outside psych FOR anxiety, and they are all well aware of that. He had a "wild animal" episode in the jump start K the summer before kindergarten started. We took steps to ensure this didn't happen again by introducing him to people and allowing him to explore before school started. It worked well. We had issues last year, don't get me wrong, but not like that. This year, they changed the entire after school program and he was not prepared. By about day 6, we had an episode.

We are meeting with the principal, counselor and teacher. We have met twice with a bigger group. Those three, two instructional coaches, and the director of curriculum and gifted services (although she has zero experience with gifted services. It's a small school district). I was pushing for IAS, but they wanted to wait until we received scores, which we paid for out of pocket. Unfortunately timing is everything, and we didn't get the report back until after first grade started. Compound that with DS's extreme hesitation to consider acceleration (anxiety), and we decided it might be better to work with his teacher.

She has said, "He wants to do the right thing." Last year, all we heard, other than he's smart, is he's overwhelming, he's manipulative, he's too much in the classroom, etc. It's so great to hear something different and for someone to actually see that he really does want to do the right thing. It's a point that came up on the Anxiety Index (MASC).

I'm going to try to find some common ground and get us all to agree. I'm also going to suggest some curriculum compacting. I THINK the teacher will be susceptible. I hope. If not, I may have to push for a 504. He already has one for Celiac...so why not one more?

Thank you so much for your advice. It's very helpful!

I'm glad I was helpful. I just remembered the name of a book I wanted to suggest if you haven't already seen it.

The Explosive Child by Ross W. Greene.

When dealing with advocating with the schools about my son (when he was young) whose anxiety came out sideways (looked like anger, or sometimes a bazillion questions, in the beginning stages until he was completely unglued), I was lucky (?) because I had specific things that caused anxiety attacks. Bathrooms (flushing), elevators, changes in routine without warning, etc.

So in our meeting we first tackled the very specific triggers and I shared what worked and what I specifically didn't want them to do. Like there is no elevator in the school but if for some reason they were on a field trip and there was an elevator...this is the protocol for handling it. (That never came up but in discussing it I could go over what anxiety looked like in him, what our psychologist's and family plan for handling it was). So then we moved over to bathroom which was going to occur at school. Signs, symptoms, plan of action. What not to do. Then we moved on to change of plans/schedule unexpected. By this time they were getting the picture of what it looked like in the beginning stages and where it could end up if not handled correctly.

That was the list of specific anxiety triggers. Then I explained to them that he also had just low level general anxiety going 24/7 and it didn't take much to push him over the edge. Really it was a bucket thing...he could look fine but that one drop added to his bucket could cause a flood. I really just asked that if I emailed and said we were going on hour 3 of anxiety attack/melt down and that I was calling an end to homework for that day...that they not penalize him academically for his disability and to give him time to regroup and try again and turn it in late. MOST of his attacks happened at home. That was one of the problems in that they didn't witness the worst of it. (but luckily his classmates didn't either so he was never stigmatized by his actions...sometimes he was grumpier than necessary in the first stages of his anxiety but kids could understand a random bad mood).

Anyway...I hope something in there helps.

newtogifted, I have very limited time at the moment, so haven't had a chance to read the other replies. If I'm repeating something or missed extra info from you, I apologize! Just thought it might be useful to share a bit of our experience as food for thought.


Do you have a brief report from the psych who did the testing? What parts are you sharing? This is jmo, but fwiw I think there's little that you have that is going to cause issues if you *do* share it - and it might help explain some of the ambiguity in your situation (just the way I see it, could be completely off base, but fwiw just another way of looking at this).

I would definitely think through - what are you sharing, and is it going to lead the school staff to say "why didn't you have subtest x?" for instance, and you also don't want the school staff to think you're purposely *not* sharing info, because that might lead them to infer lower scores or something else that you are hesitant to share. And I totally get that you're hesitant to share! It's a real tough situation to think through how to approach when you have scores that aren't all showing what you'd hoped or that aren't easy to decipher and put together a meaningful story from.


Processing speed doesn't go into the GAI - just mentioning that in case you weren't aware. Was there a large gap in processing speed?


This is absolutely a possibility, but otoh, I'd also consider that he was tested using two different instruments both measuring some component that measures processing speed. Those relatively low scores, combined with anxiety and perfectionism noted at school, would suggest that it is worth pursuing a bit more testing to determine why the processing scores are lower than the other scores. It might be nothing - and that's useful information even if that's all you get. If you do find something (an LD, vision issue, fine motor issue, whatever), you'll be glad you found it out now and not 1-2 years from now.

When my ds (dyspraxic, dysgraphic, expressive language disorder) was in K-2 in early elementary, he developed HUGE anxiety - to the point he was almost clinically depressed. Anxiety may exist in some kids simply because they are anxious, but it's been my experience that many times there is a reason behind the anxiety that's driving it, and the anxiety is the way that person's personality *reacts* to stress. My ds also had a WISC right before K that showed a dip in processing speed but the psych felt he was just going slow and being careful and not understanding that a timed test meant you should work your fastest. We were testing to see if his IQ was high enough to qualify for a gifted program and had no clue he had a challenge, so we didn't think anything of that particular processing speed score other than assuming the psychologist was correct in her assumption. At school, ds appeared to be bored to tears with a lot of the work (work refusal of simple things like easy math worksheets etc) and also appeared to move slowly in his work, which looked like perfectionism to us. We chalked everythign up to gifted behaviors and didn't think twice about it. Then his anxiety started ramping up... and up.. and up.. and it just kept getting worse until 2nd grade when we finally had a teacher who was wise enough to recognize that there was some kind of challenge. Once ds was diagnosed and had accommodations in place, his anxiety evaporated. It still comes back from time to time, but it's always secondary to his challenge. If there *is* something going on that's causing the anxiety then you really need to figure out the root cause in order to accommodate effectively. Having a good understanding of what's causing the anxiety will also help when advocating for your ds at school.


Exactly - except that I'd add LDs and more to the list of things that can appear as inattentiveness and anxiety.


We don't have psychs in our area who specialize in gifted kids. My experience has been that it wasn't necessary to have that experience. It sounds like what you've had so far is ability and achievement testing, perhaps to get your ds id'd as gifted. What might be the most helpful now is to find a psych who is either a neuropsych or who performs educational evals - this type of eval goes further than just the ability/achievement testing, it includes tests that will tease out why things like processing speed test scores are lower than other scores etc.


I would write down exactly what happened (as far as you know), including the principal's reaction and follow-up. It sounds, quite honestly, unprofessional. You may not ever use what you've written down, but it's helpful to keep a record of what happens at school.


For your meeting tomorrow, take a list or summary of how anxiety presents in *your* child.


Advocating at school can be extremely difficult and frustrating depending on the school setup and the school staff. One thing that helps, no matter how contentious the staff you're dealing with is, is to have as much of a thorough understanding of what's up with your child as you can possibly have at any one given point in time. It sounds like you really don't have all the answers yet. Be sure to listen to what the school has to say - it may be tough and frustrating and annoying, but there may also be valuable bits of info there that are important to understanding what's up. Also don't be afraid to say you don't have an answer or know what's best if you truly don't. The idea is the school will work with you to help your ds.

Last piece of advice, try to tease out - is this really a gifted issue (gifted child in classroom not being challenged) or a situation where a child with a challenge that hasn't been identified is acting out because of the challenge? It doesn't mean your ds isn't gifted if he has a challenge - but if he does have a challenge, you need to focus on that (understanding, appropriate remediation, effective accommodations) in order for your ds to be able to *show* his gifts.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Meeting went okay. I started with some common ground things. "We need to help DS gain better control." We went down a few paths that easily led me to give them a couple articles explaining what anxiety CAN look like in a child. I started with, "I had to learn this, too. It's not what we, as adults, tend to think anxiety looks like." I think that helped.

We discussed perfectionism and possible things that can be done in the classroom. And we talked about academics. I told them the doc recommended enhanced curriculum, so we discussed some options there. The teacher was very receptive to all of it. The anxiety, the curriculum, etc.

The principal wanted his IQ scores. I said no. She assumed they must have been bad. He had a 120 GAI. I said the doc said there could be external factors that influenced his tests, so the score may not be valid. He still has his original score, so I don't want to give them a score that isn't valid. And...I paid for it.

Principal did try to nail me on an "I told you so" moment by saying, "So it's a good thing we didn't move him to second grade," to which I said, "I wasn't trying to get him moved to second grade; I was asking for the IAS to see if that would be a good option." BTW. After DS expressed concern and started focusing on it WAY too much, I had already decided it'd send him into a tailspin.

Over all, I feel like the meeting was a win. For now.

I am sure that is a relief. It's very positive that the teacher seems to be on board.