Anyone have any ideas about how to advocate for my DD? I had her tested when she was 6 because school was boring to her and she was acting out. She has a full IQ of 141, but a slower processing speed. I don't remember the numbers right now, but the Psych. who performed the test told us that it was a sign of perfectionism. She was accepted at a gifted school, but then we decided against it because of the cost and the fact that we have two other kids.

Then she took the OLSAT as the screen for the district gifted program, and according to this test, she was in the bottom half of her class verbally. It made NO sense at all, but they wouldn't use my test to put her in.

The next year they gave her the CoGAT for getting into gifted program. She got a perfect score on the verbal section. I was told that she got lower scores on the other sections because she didn't finish, but they were high enough to be in the program.

Then they got rid of the pull-out gifted program for a push-in program. That was not a huge problem since that was only two hours a week. She is a social girl, and reads on her own, but has been miserably bored and asks frequently if she can stay home from school.

Now, she is going into middle school and there is a advanced language arts class. She is not being put into the class because her MAP is the 92nd percentile. I appealed explaining that her RIT has not grown (only negatively) since third grade. I told them she is bored and NEEDS the advanced curriculum, but we are getting a stone wall.

I am not going to pay for private testing again, but there has to be some way to advocate for her. Any ideas other than what I've presented here? I have a meeting with an admin next week.

Thanks!

You may have read this elsewhere on the forums: If there is childhood perfectionism, there are books which show readers how to free themselves from thought patterns which may not be serving them well. While insightful, these books are written gently for kids, in a style that is fun and engaging. Parents may wish to pre-read and decide if a resource may be a helpful tool for their child. A book which seems to understand perfectionism very well and which many find supportive is "What To Do When Good Enough Isn't Good Enough". Another book you might like is "Perfectionism: What's Bad About Being Too Good". Here is an article from the Davidson Database, Interview with Thomas Greenspon on Perfectionsim.

What is the cutoff or minimum percentile required for placement into the class?

Have you received the results of your appeal? Also, do you have the RIT scores from 3rd grade onward? Does your school or district have a policy regarding growth for each pupil? If your child has not been meeting annual benchmarks for growth in this area, has she been evaluated for any possible learning disability in this area?

The word bored may work against advocacy. This thread has several posts which discuss reasons to not use the word "bored" when advocating.

You may have read this elsewhere on the forums... there is a crowd-sourced list of tips on preparing for a meeting.

Lastly, have you considered afterschooling/enrichment to stimulate her interest and encourage her continued growth in this area?

Best wishes with your meeting!

I want to know how people fit the after schooling in...

If they are in school all day. Granted some of that homework doesn't take too long but hopefully my son will be placed in accelerated math and that will be a bit of work to do. He will have band instrument to practice daily, he has scouts once a week, sports two to three times a week.

I really want him to do an online class but I can't see adding that to his schedule in addition to his voracious reading, bike riding, and the bit of down time he needs for Legos and various creative projects (like designing his Halloween costume) and he does like a bit of TV and video games (limits apply). I might have him start his online class at spring break and finish it by the end of summer.

hen, I'll second spaghetti's advice. I'd also look closely at the differences between the advanced LA and regular LA class that she's slated to go into. Is it truly advanced in terms of what will be studied/learned, or will the class be doing essentially the same work as the regular LA class but with more homework? FWIW in our school district, the main advantage to being in "advanced" language arts/social studies/etc in middle school is being with a higher ability group of students, but there's no real advantage in terms of what is studied or learned. Sometimes (here) it equates into a much larger homework load because the teachers perceive that the higher ability students can handle more work, rather than challenging them to think deeper/more creatively etc.

I'd also dig deeper with your dd to find out what's "boring". It's possible that she could move up into a more challenging class and still be bored. I also would step back from using "bored" as a reason for moving her up when advocating. There are most likely more than a few "bored" teens/tweens at school. You need to advocate with quantifiable evidence that your dd is not being placed appropriately. Look at her homework/classwork/class tests in her current class. Look at state testing if you have that in addition to MAP. Also ask about how classes are grouped in middle school if she's not placed in the advanced LA - is there any other clustering or is it just everyone thrown together?

Best wishes,

polarbear

Cookie,

Fitting in after-schooling is tough. We've only done it in our family when either our child *asked* to do it, or when we had a situation when we needed to do it in order to show that our child was ready for subject acceleration at school. In those instances, we didn't use after schooling so much to learn new things, as to work quickly through a course that could show our child already had a good grasp of the concepts, and to have proof of knowledge through class tests. We also never signed up for an online class that met regularly, only signed up for self-paced courses so that we could work on them as time permitted.

Personally I think our kids need free time and down time outside of school. Getting through school quickly isn't a race, and my kids might not get as far ahead by the end of high school as some of their high ability peers or as far as their own abilities might allow them to, but that's ok. I want them to have a happy childhood too BUT - sometimes they want the after schooling, and when they do, that's ok with me.

polarbear

This is my case too...he has a grasp of the material....this is to credential him (high school class) so he can take the next level (maybe also online, maybe in school)...it also is a self paced thing although progress has to be a minimum level each week continuously unless you inform your teacher you will be taking a vacation week but you can go as fast as you want. It is quite possible he could finish it in half the time they predict or less...but that really depends on his other commitments. The third level will absolutely have to be in school.

Half an hour on Saturday, Sunday and one week day.

hen27, if you do a quick search on this forum, you will find many threads about low/slow MAP test growth (and I have started to contributed to many of them ). What you present has always been my "nightmare scenario" about lack of MAP test growth; that is, the child goes to the school to grow, does NOT grow at the school (programming/material ALLOWING high scorers to grow may be absent/ missing because acceleration is actually needed), the child fails to grow...and BOOM, "sorry, your child is excluded from our most challenging programming because his/her MAP test score isn't high enough." Many schools also use MAP as criteria for their programs (ours do, in addition to other criteria). While we have not yet experienced actual exclusion, the scenario is obviously unfair to the child who goes to school each year to learn, only to encounter material he/she already knows - leading to poor growth.

We finally threw up our hands this year with our school after multiple years of this happening in multiple subjects: we are after/summer/homeschooling the subjects of no/poor growth. The schools have shown a pattern of inadequately addressing the problem, because the children are still extremely high achieving, even with the poor growth. We will no longer leave it to the school to help our children learn. I have 2 DYS who are consistently in the 98-99th percentile (and usually at the HIGH 99th) on MAP, who have, at times (and for some extended periods), experienced no/poor growth. I would love to transfer both children to a full time gifted school, but the only one available is private and extraordinarily expensive, especially for more than one child.

I understand that MAP growth can ebb and flow...we are not talking about that. We are talking about entire years (multiple testing periods) passing with no/poor growth...THAT is when something needs to change.

Is afterschooling a great solution? NO! But it is better than not learning. Fortunately, our children do not seem to get "stuck" in all subjects at the same time. They have typically been "stuck" when their scores are extremely high (which might also be when they actually need acceleration).

MAP may actually be a good achievement test for a child who likes or needs to take their time on tests (it should be untimed). The child, however, needs to learn something new in order to demonstrate growth.

I am sorry you and your DD are having to deal with this.

Thank you, all! I really appreciate the advice and comments. It is extremely frustrating to me.

To answer some of your questions:

Here's the process they used: The child had to score above the 95th percentile in Reading or Language in MAP for the winter test. If the child did not, but had scored above the 95th in the fall or spring of the previous year, then the parents could appeal. The appeal was for the child to be allowed to take an in-house writing and reading test. But, the scores were placed on a matrix. They had to score 25/35 possible points. My daughter scored 98th percentile in Language Arts for MAP, so she got 4 points. But, because she was in the 92nd percentile, she went in to the test with a 0/7 in Reading. She basically had to ace the reading/ writing in-house test. She got 11/12 on the reading portion. She got 16/20 on the writing test -- which translated into 8 of their matrix points. It all added up to 23/25.

I appealed this, and she was allowed to re-test. On the second test, she got the same writing score, but an 8 on the Reading, so she got an even lower score.

In terms of grades, she has always gotten A's and has been praised by her teachers. She tested out of the district spelling program in 3rd grade and has been given RIDICULOUS lists of random words, or of words based on greek/ latin roots, but without a real application of word study. She has been allowed to read whatever she wants at school, with the exception of two books in three years.

When I told her that she was being asked to take a test to take Advanced Language Arts, she told me she didn't want to take it because she HATES Language Arts. And this is coming from a girl who literally started a novel also night and finished it this afternoon. She and one of her best friends (who also didn't test in) started writing multiple books together, including a sequel to Hunger Games.

I should add that I am an English teacher, which makes me potentially biased. But, I think that it mostly makes me qualified to assess that she can handle whatever the 6th grade Advanced LA teacher has to throw at her. She could handle my 9th grade class.

Here's what I sent in already:

We would like to speak with you regarding the ALA testing/ appeal for our daughter. We are concerned about the placement process in general and, of course, our own daughter’s placement.


From previous conversations with you, we know that there is a concern that parents in the district would push their children to take courses that are above their ability level and instructional needs. We would certainly not advocate for our child, or any other one, to be pushed into a stressful academic situation. However, the process is not adequately identifying students’ instructional needs. The current matrix awards points to a student based on their national percentile. NWEA suggests that RIT range is what should be used to target instruction and in placement decisions (http://legacysupport.nwea.org/support/article/1200). Our daughter got zero points for her MAP reading score. Yet, the instructional targets based on her RIT range are the same as targets for students scoring 5, 6, or 7 points on the matrix for their MAP scores. If DD had been awarded even two points for her RIT range, she would have the required 25/25 points on the matrix.


We understand that the ALA committee tried to remedy the impact of fluctuating MAP scores on placement by looking back at previous MAP tests. While her score is at the 92nd percentile, our daughter has not shown growth in her RIT score on the MAP Reading test since third grade. In fact, for one of the testing sessions, she showed negative growth. The lack of growth is evidence that her instructional needs are not being met in the regular program.


We recognize the difficulty for the district in having to select a few students to benefit from this program, and are sorry that any child must be denied this opportunity if they want to accept the challenge. However, reason and common sense insist that we continue to make the case that our daughter’s educational needs are not being met by the regular program, based on her recorded testing and academic performance in the district. We would be happy to compile multiple data points that indicate that she would be best placed in an advanced curriculum if you feel that is necessary.

We ask for you to reconsider placement for her in the Advanced ALA class for the 2015-2016 school-year. Please let us know if we can make an appointment to speak with you in person about this matter.


SO, I got a meeting. I am almost certain that it is a meeting to be told why she is correctly placed in the Regular class. Polarbear, I agree with you. I think that I will ask for a copy of the complete ALA curriculum. I can assess the difference and fill in the gaps for her on my own.

I have to say though that I am really furious.

Thanks again! I will also go look at the threads referenced.

I agree with spaghetti re the requirements, but otoh, I've seen even more silly requirements in our own school district so I'm not entirely surprised. A few random thoughts for you:

I'm not familiar with MAP testing - can you get a standard score or something other than a percentile, and can you get a range of error along with it? You might find the range of error in her score could put her up nearer the cutoff range (or maybe over the cutoff).

I don't know if it will help or make school staff annoyed so it's advice that needs to be weighted based on your knowledge of the personalities involved, but one thing you could potentially pitch is that if they agree to let her into the advanced class and she has struggles, she's got excellent support at home in that she has a parent who's an English teacher.

Keep asking. Keep plugging away. Our school district also has what appear to be very strict cutoffs for the various gifted programs, and fwiw, I can't tell you how many times I've heard of kids who got into our programs because their parents advocated loudly and didn't give up.

Good luck!

polarbear

Some may say the school does NOT feel that is necessary, as they've made their decision utilizing other criteria and you presenting more data may challenge their thinking and complicate the process.

My thought is to not give away your power to the school by asking if they want the data. If you believe you have important/relevant data, then gather it, copy it, present it, and document that you've done so.

There is a lot of information about Measures of Academic Progress (MAP) assessments by Northwest Evaluation Association (NWEA), and their RIT (Rasch unIT or Rasch Interval uniT) scores, on the company website and archives at nwea.org. Content changes frequently.

It is my understanding that the RIT score indicates the point in the curriculum at which the child answers 50% of the questions correctly, therefore does not indicate mastery, and is intended to pinpoint each child's zone of proximal development (ZPD). However this is predicated on learning material and developing skills in the curriculum's prescribed order (or learning continuum)... which not all children do.

There are also RIT growth targets.

Stagnation may result from a ceiling effect... not teaching a student new things, or may indicate a benign "gap" which would not preclude the individual from having a solid foundation and learning other skills seamlessly, or may indicate some type of learning difference or learning disability and may need to be explored further.

Also, MAP is being renormed very soon...2015 norms are in the process of being released, I believe. This could potentially impact your DD's percentiles (possibly for the better, as I believe that the preliminary norms suggested that many mean scores have gone down in recent years. https://www.nwea.org/content/uploads/2015/06/2015-MAP-Comparative-Data-One-Sheet-JUN15.pdf

My youngest missed the advanced 6th grade LA class by one percentage point (and one actual point) on the MAP Reading. She had the required F&P Level Z.

I wasn't going to fight for placement in an LA class, since I think our middle school LA classes are pretty useless. Yesterday we received an "override" form so that she can be placed in the advanced class. We will fill this out so she'll be in the advanced section - don't know if you have any such options. (I didn't know this was an option, but I have learned that there is stuff like this in our district due to "those parents" - and my youngest has benefited from the work of such parents.)

I really wouldn't worry about middle school LA unless your district offers something special. Our older ones got more out of mom or dad going over their essay with them than the middle school teacher instruction.

I would see if your district has waiver or override forms. We have used them for middle kid (for complex scheduling issues), though at one point the HS tried to force her to sign one for gym class. To make her schedule work with the required 10th grade swimming (yep, cannot defer swimming until 11th), they wanted her in advanced swimming with the swim team members. She is NOT a good swimmer. Made something work with a group one step down from advanced, so not perfect but she didn't drown.

Best of luck, but I wouldn't worry too much.

Thanks, all! I am worried that I've already annoyed personalities at the school, but so be it. But, I have to advocate for my kid. She had a RIT of 218 in first grade. In third grade she went up to 229. And that is the sum total of the growth that she experienced in elementary school. She says that she reads every third word on "those boring tests." I believe her. I guess I have to tell her to slow down and pay attention. It's especially hard because they invited her to test and her own self-esteem has been impacted by this experience. There is a Science Olympiad team, and she was intrigued by it, but then saw that there is a "try-out" date on the flier and said that she didn't want to do it anymore. It's hard because she's an eleven-year-old and I see so many insecurities creeping in. I don't think that there is a lot in the curriculum that would be great for her, but I do think that being clustered with other curious and bright kids would be a boost for her. But, maybe being in the regular class will be good because she'll have time to read whatever she wants at home. I'll try to calm down about it all!

That's about the age when girls may begin to hide their talents. Your daughter may be engaging in self-sabotage by only reading every third word of a test she was invited to sit for, and by avoiding Science Olympiad tryouts.

Without pushing, you may wish to help her explore the Science Olympiad website, discuss a time when you may have tried out for something for which you did not make the cut but still found the tryout experience to be valuable, and see if she can reignite her spark of interest.

Attending tryouts is as much about a child deciding if s/he finds the extracurricular to be a good "fit", as about the organizers of the extracurricular seeing which children are believed to be a good "fit". The experiences of acceptance, rejection, resilience, and refining what may be a good "fit" are all great practice for job interviews (including babysitting) and also for the college selection process. You may also wish to reinforce that everything worthwhile and rewarding does not necessarily come "easily" or "naturally" but may take effort, practice, and persistence.

Kids with multiple talents and interests may want to tryout for several extracurriculars throughout middle school and high school. If you are not already helping your daughter collect samples of her work, this may be a good time to begin a portfolio or resume of your daughter's activities and accomplishments, including extracurriculars, contests/competitions, outside classes, and a list of books read.

Just wanted to chime in about science olympiad tryouts; i haven't read the whole thread, but agree with Indigo avove. It would also help to get some inside info about your school's team- teams vary quite a bit. Our DD was also put off by the idea of tryouts, but after much coaxing and a personal shove from a beloved teacher, she ended up attending. She knew early on in the tryout process (it lasts several weeks here) that the team would be a good fit and that she wanted to be on it. The SO experience has been a defining one of her middle school years- she found a tight-knit, supportive peer group, encouraging teachers/coaches who understood her, and limitless opportunity for intellectual challenge. Her confidence has soared, and she has explored in depth many areas of science not typically touched on in middle school (often using AP and college texts, lots of independent research, etc).

Just be aware that some teams are quite competetive, even between the team members (depends on how the team is organized/coached, and whether they have to compete amongst themselves after joining the team. Here, all the competition is in making the team; once you are on it it is completely collaborative, but they dont all work this way). The SO website is a good introduction, but you really want to know how the specific team functions before choosing to encourage your DD. Also, be aware that SO can involve a significant time comittment, again, depending on how the team is structured. For DD this was a positive, as she would probably be reading about/doing science much of the time anyway, but it does limit other extracurricular opportunities.

Best of luck to your DD!

Yes, when advocating on our children's behalf,
sometimes we are promoting an idea to the schools...
other times we are promoting an idea to our children.