Hello everyone. It's been awhile since I have posted here. Things have been going well. DS was pulled from his PreK 4 class in February and is doing well at home. We have attended a Lego class, some art classes, and Taekwondo. We have done some homeschooling but not much. DS starts Kindergarten at a public school in August.
Reason for post, DS has the Psychomotor OE. A very strong one. Plus he is 5. It's been a hard combination. Both physical movement and mouth movement. He did well in the Lego class and art classes since he had freedom of movement and good teachers. We just pulled him from Taekwondo. He was very unhappy and frustrated. The teachers required a lot of stillness, which he was willing to try, but failed. His self-esteem dropped. I was really hoping this class would help him just a little, but I know it's for the best that he is withdrawn from class. We did go for 5 months, twice a week. I think we gave it a good shot.

For school, how will I keep him somewhat still? I know he can't be completely still or quiet and I know it will depend on the teacher, but I wanted to see if anyone else has been through this situation and could offer some advice. Trying to be prepared before school starts.

Thanks!

Kindergarten teachers expect that children come in not being able to sit still. Your child may be on the extreme end of the spectrum regarding movement, but as a former teacher and having a lot of K teachers as friends (My DS is 4.5 and I'm always hammering these friends with the same questions), you may be worrying about something that will turn out to be not such a big deal. Some teachers totally get that 5 year olds need to move all day and learn in that way. Some don't. Perhaps talk to the principal about your concerns so that they will assign a teacher is gets this.

I have one child who sits for hours focusing on the something and one that can't stop moving! I fret about their school experience all the time.

I've seen kids who REALLY benefited from weighted lap blankets and/or weighted vests. Unfortunately they are pretty pricey, so it's hard to experiment with the weight needed for effectiveness. And obviously the minimum weight needed changes as a child grows.

Good luck!

If you want to experiment with weighted vests, you can start with a decently-proportioned child's backpack filled with soft/cushioned items totaling various weights. You can also try fidget toys (stress balls, koosh balls, etc.), or one of those rubber bracelets with an inspirational phrase on it, or a theraband looped around the legs of his chair (for hooking feet through it, or bouncing).

I have mover too. At 10 he still has trouble sitting for the amount of time his peers do, but it has gotten better. I agree with GGG's advice to talk to your principal. We have had great luck with our school in that DS is carefully assigned a teacher each year who will work with his style. The fact that he's a very bright kid who is very clearly still listening as he's walking around the room helps. On days when his energy level is unbearable, he is sent on errands to the office, the library, etc. or simply asked to go walk up and down the hall a few times to get the wiggles out. The fact that he is allowed to do things that the other kids are not (like get up and walk around the room) does not phase the other kids - they are pretty darn accepting.

I also agree with GGG that many many K kiddos can't sit still. In our school there are frequent movement breaks in the K and 1 school day (some teachers are better than others, but most embrace the need for it). In addition, they have a pretty high tolerance for kids who can't stay put.

Other things that have been tried with my DS and worked (albeit mostly for short periods of time - the best thing has simply been growing up...) include chewing gum during class, the theraband around the chair, weighted belt (at home, didn't take). If you truly are concerned and things don't go well right off, other things that are becoming more accepted are active seating, like the wiggle stools or ball seats where your body is always engaged and shifting to keep balance (not just a stability ball, probably something a little more stable than that for a 5 year old). I also have seen the bike pedals attached to a desk or chair - you can actually buy a relatively cheap version on amazon. If he truly can't not move, it might be a help if the school will allow it (I think mine would if DS really needed something more still...).

Good luck!

Thanks everyone! Nice to know I am not alone in my concerns. Hopefully I will get a teacher I can work with.

Our elementary school has many wiggle seats in every class, especially among the younger kids. (such as http://www.amazon.ca/Wiggle-Inflatable-Sensory-Chair-Cushion/dp/B00JCJ9IYE)

A good teacher will also allow kids who need it to work standing up, which can be a huge help (and for which there is growing evidence, for adults too). I'd echo GGG and ask the principal specifically to match your child with a teacher who is comfortable with a moving body in their class. It's no disruption at all with a teacher who doesn't themselves have a problem with it, but can be miserable for a kid if the teacher misunderstands it as a discipline issue.

My DS is 10 and his teachers just let him do his pacing. Gum helps, chewable necklaces help, but honestly the walking around happens anyway...

Thanks. I am hoping we get a teacher that is willing to work with us. I did fill out an student information sheet during enrollment with my concerns on it.
Platypus, I have seen that seat before. They seem great. I also found some busy toys DS could keep in his pockets. If DS's teacher can keep him busy and interested, we should be ok.

Hello. I wanted to post an update since the school year has started. We already have a parent teacher conference scheduled for tomorrow. Things are not going well. DS is coming bored with simple letter and number work, having social processing problems, listening skills are becoming a problem, and his behavior is overwhelming the teacher. He has left the classroom many times to play in the bathroom, (background: He loves toilets, plumbing, pipes, duct work, fans, motors, etc.)
Is there such a thing as a processing disorder? How can you tell the difference between a disorder problem and a kid that's stuck in his head thinking of something else?

When he is home, he does have some difficulty paying attention but it's mostly because he is thinking of something else.

ADHD? Look up symptoms on Wikipedia. He may be too young to diagnose though. Also look up Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. This is all I have to offer based on your description. DD was diagnosed ADHD at age 6 and she calmed down a lot on stimulants (I'm not telling you that he has ADHD or that you should medicate, but it's just something to consider).
Sorry things aren't going more smoothly. Keep in mind kids with ADHD can focus very well (or hyperfocus) on things that interest them.

I'm sorry things aren't going better amielyn. Yes, there are things that are considered to be processing disorders - actually more than one type. It's *very* difficult to try and guess what's up with children your ds' age because similar behaviors can be resulting from many different types of challenges or situations etc. It's been my experience that when you have a concern and that concern has stretched across more than one "classroom" (pre-k, taikwondo, kindergarten), then it's a good idea to consider an evaluation by a professional who can look at how your child is functioning overall, and help try to figure out what's behind the challenging behaviours. While it's absolutely normal for a kindergarten-aged child to want to move around in the classroom, if you've got teachers or adult leaders in more than one environment who are noting that your ds' behavior is exceptional, chances are that there *might* be something going on, and if you can figure out what it is, you can help him work around it or overcome it.

For example, my older dd also had a really difficult time sitting still and paying attention (as well as following directions) when she was your ds' age. We (parents) as well as her pediatrician and just about anyone else who met her thought she must surely have ADHD. We definitely thought she had extreme sensitivities and she went through listening therapy as well as sensory therapy with an OT (plus she had a weighted vest and sat on one of the seat cushions mentioned above etc). It all did help - to a certain extent. But she still couldn't focus in class, didn't follow directions etc. It wasn't until 2nd grade that we finally had her go through a full neuropsych eval, only to find out she had severe double vision, and once that was corrected the other issues disappeared. I'm not suggesting your ds has a vision issue - just trying to point out - it's just almost impossible to know without the advice and perspective of a trained professional who can see your child for e global type of evaluation.

Since the school is calling for a conference, I'd suggest that you ask for the school's help in trying to figure out what is going on. You can ask for specific information about when he appears to have trouble listening, etc at the meeting - and you can also request an evaluation through the school.


Home is a very different environment than the outside world. As parents, we tend to set up our home environment in a way that allows our children to work around their challenges, even if we don't see it or don't consciously attempt to do it. It's also possible that attention isn't really the issue - something else is happening in the classroom or elsewhere that is causing him to have difficulty paying attention, but that same challenge isn't present at home.

Hope that makes sense!

Best wishes,

polarbear

Thanks polarbear and blackcat. The conference is in a few hours and I'll post back what we talked about.

Points the teacher made:
1. Constant motion, making noises, being disruptive
2. Personal space boundaries
3. Distracted/ trouble staying on task (stuck in head)
4. Leaves class to play in the bathroom
5. Running
6. Trouble processing directions and class routines
7. Hurries through work to move on to fun activities

She recommended a pediatrician evaluation and possible social therapy. Ot therapy, etc. We have talked with his pediatrician before and he does not think DS has autism or ADD. The school does not have a gifted program and the teacher seems willing to help, but overwhelmed with class size and resources. We are considering homeschooling. I would love to hear everyones thoughts. I am overwhelmed and tired.

Why does the pediatrician think it's not ADD? Because those are all ADHD symptoms. I'm not saying that it's for sure ADHD but it seems bizarre to just rule it out. The pediatrician should have inventories like the Conner's (teacher and parent versions). I would ask for them and fill them out. You could also try the school psychologist. I'm so disgusted with schools/teachers who bring up problems like this but then do not refer the child for a SCHOOL evaluation. If the teacher has concerns about a possible disability, they are legally mandated to evaluate the child. They can't just tell you to go get him therapy on your own. Of course you should talk to pediatrician, but they are not off the hook. If you want the school to evaluate him, then you can put a request in writing. I would probably try again with a pediatrician though, to ask about ADHD. Then you would have a medical diagnosis. You may also want to go to a neuropsych (or skip pediatrician and go directly to neuropsych) if you have any suspicion of autism/aspergers. A teacher will generally not suggest diagnoses like ADHD or autism to parents because they are not qualified to diagnose. Instead they will throw out all the symptoms and hope that you catch on. DD's ADHD was pretty obvious since she was so unfocused and she did things like run down hallways but no teacher EVER told me "I think she should be evaluated for ADHD." They just rambled on about her focus issues.

I agree blackcat, about teachers just tossing out the problems but not suggesting any strategies or solutions. We did meet with this pediatrician about a year ago. It was a long visit, 1.5 hours. He monitored DS, we brought checklists and papers. He talked with DS for a good while, asked lots of questions, and then decided he was not autistic. He said he could qualify for aspergers, but mild.
I think his ADD likes symptoms are a result of his OEs. His psychomotor OE is strong. He moves constantly, even while reading! He is also very intense. I would agree with sensory issues as well.
We are considering an outside evaluation versus the school one due to my hubs concerns of what he would like to share with the school.

I think that's a good idea. Just make sure you go to a reputable place (we took both kids to a major university). Then you can take the report back to the school as an independent evaluation, and they have to consider the findings/recommendations.

Personally I think everyone with ADHD probably also has psychomotor OE (at least hyperactive type ADHD). I wouldn't rule out ADHD. The focus issues and impulsivity are major flags.

FWIW, my DS would have had a list that looked just like your DS's when he was in K if it hadn't been a good fit. Teacher fit makes a huge difference, and they often think they are doing a great job (which I'm sure they are, just not for your kid's differences) and its all your kid. Which - it is. But that doesn't mean its ADHD or any other 'disorder.' They want a label that they understand and know what to do with (which is pretty normal).

You said he didn't do well in Taekwondo, but did fine in Lego and art classes. So he did ok in some classes where teacher fit and expectation were more flexible (yes?). And if you'd asked him, would he have told you he loved Lego and art, but only liked Taekwondo? Just guessing here, but sometimes fit is about preferred activities...

For my DS we looked at sensory processing issues and even did a year of OT (which he loved, b/c who wouldn't love an OT gym?). However the more I've learned the more convinced I am that its largely psychomotor OE for us as well. Combined with his other OEs, it can be a bit much at times. But no one thinks ADHD for us, and yet I feel I could've written your initial post. All this is simply to say - sounds like you know your kiddo well, go with your gut! That said, an eval isn't a bad idea -- it has helped us immensely to have the IQ numbers in advocating for appropriate school work!

Thanks Pine, Yes, he said he loved Lego class but didn't like Taekwondo. He begged us to quit before things got worse but we thought we would teach him a life lesson, "Finish what you start". Well, he sort of taught us! At school he likes some things and "hates" others. Most of his problems are with being still. She would correct him and he would get the giggles, then move around more.

He does have trouble with social cues and personal boundaries. We've worked on this since he was little. He can come a long way since 1 year old, but not enough for the school setting. I am looking into Superflex or another social learning software. Or and OT.

Another thing is pushing. He thinks its fun to play hard and push. Ex: Game of tag, instead of tagging the other kid, he pushes. He's strong for his age. He already has two "marks" against him, at school, about pushing. They said one more and he gets a referral. Not sure the punishment with a referral but we want to avoid it.

Even with a long assessment appointment, I wouldn't necessarily rely on a regular pediatrician to diagnose a 2E child. The giftedness can mask so many other issues and pediatricians are (probably) more attuned to obvious cases. For us, the most important specialist was a neuropsychologist. Even then, though, it seems like there are so many overlapping symptoms that it can be difficult to tease out an accurate diagnosis.

It sounds like you have a good handle on the most pressing issues at this point, with the motor hyperactivity and social issues. The tricky part is figuring out what's causing them so you can use appropriate interventions. Can't imagine any harm done by social skills training, at any rate. I think (but am not certain) that OT would be helpful if there are specific physical skills that need work. I'd want to know more about the diagnosis before spending a lot of time (and money) on therapies.

I would seek an outside neuropsych evaluation, preferably someone with a lot of experience with ADHD, autism, and gifted. We found the most qualified people at a local children's hospital; depends where you are.

I would also plan to share findings with the school-- right now they're labeling him as "out of control", so if another label fits better that is not so pejorative, it would be useful for school to have that.

I will add that I don't believe in OEs. Usually that term is just a way to avoid noticing and naming a 2E issue. We found that the idea that gifted kids are "all more difficult" or "naturally intense" delayed our DS's autism diagnosis by several years, in a way that did nobody any good.

It may be a matter of degree.

As a middle ground, experts in the field describe gifted intensity and overexcitability, while at the other extreme some less credentialed gifted consultancy websites share stories of children who may be twice exceptional but are described solely as "gifted". For example: a gifted first grader falling out of his chair because the room was too blue. Possibly such webpages conflate gifted and 2e issues and characteristics, serving neither community well.

That said, in some instances it may be difficult to tease apart gifted characteristics from those which may be indicative of autism or other learning difference or disability or diagnosis. While characteristics may be present, they may differ in frequency/degree exhibited.