My DD6 has always been a firecracker. She is often sensitive, loud, argumentative and easily frustrated (mostly with family; she has no problems turning on the charm for other adults). However, in the last couple of months, she has become unbearable. Defiant in EVERY way. Screams that she has practiced a piano song 5 times, not 3 (as the rest of family points out). Has a massive fit when she can't figure a math problem out and will crumple it up, stomp out of the room and will only come back later when she has calmed down. She will often freak out when she thinks a problem is too difficult instead of just listening to a simple explanation from me. She covers her ears, screams and will tell me not to help her. She gets so upset that she is literally shaking and unable to breathe, then crashes out and falls asleep. She just cannot seem to respond without shouting and screaming!
I always ensure she meets her bedtime and she gets plenty of sleep. She normally is not a napper unless she has a massive tantrum.

She has also been snacking a lot too. She is tiny and cannot eat large meals but is constantly asking for snacks between meals lately. I am pretty strict with food so she eats healthy with little processed food and I am watchful of her sugar intake.

She also has massive sensory issues with clothing and I am in the process of getting her evaluated in the next couple of weeks. She also walks on her toes a lot.

I am wondering why she is just so over the top these last couple months. I literally am so stressed out from her behavior I am starting to feel the effects of depression. There is no therapist near us that has a lot experience with gifted children. The one time we met with a psych, he made her feel awful and so she is afraid to see anyone.

Could it possibly be from allergies? She has been suffering badly the last couple of months. She is highly allergic to grass.
Or could it be from school placement? Due to her WISC IV results (HG+), she was put in a 1st grade class after her half day kinder ends for the day, and is pulled for 2nd grade for reading. Aside from the writing, these placements are still too easy for her but she is not the type to complain of boredom. She loves it all, but I can see that she is fatigued at the end of school day due to the increase in writing.

I know every gifted child is different but hoping you all can shed a light or two. I need some help!!

First let me say, I am so sorry! This sounds like a very stressful situation.

Obviously there are a multitude of possibilities, and I wouldn't underestimate the effects of allergies/allergy meds. However, reading your description I'd look more toward fatigue (mental rather than physical) and control. When did she make the move to accelerated afternoons? How do these afternoons compare to the previous situation? It is possible that moving from afternoons of self-directed play to afternoons of prescribed academic activities is causing her a great deal of mental fatigue. Even if it is intellectually below her level, operating under someone else's directives, rather than your own, can be exhausting in it's own way. I know I can be easily exhausted when I have to be "on" for long stretches of time. It's also a big loss of control in that she's presumably having to follow someone else's lead for a much larger portion of the day.

Just some thoughts, but I could be way off base! I hope you get some good replies that help you out!

Thank Kathryn for your insight!! I tend to agree with you. She started going to 1st grade in March, which is around the time her behavior started to deteriorate.
She went from coming home at 11:15 to 1:50. She starts early kinder which means she is actually attending school 30 minutes longer than other 1st and 2nd graders. However, she is not like my introverted son who needs his down time. She always needs to be around people and stimulated when she is isn't occupied by reading.

I suppose I'm confused; isn't acceleration helpful to avoid frustrations like this? The educational psych and all the reading I have done suggest that she needed acceleration immediately. Perhaps this is due to the educational mismatch? Meaning she needs appropriate educational stimulation rather than, as you put it KathrynH, mental exertion from more self regulation for paying attention, following the teacher's lead and loss of self directed activities. I know she is having to write a lot more and she tires easily. But the 2nd grade teacher has told me that it is not an appropriate reading placement as she is so far ahead from the rest of the group.

This is throwing a wrench in the plans we are trying to hammer out for schooling next year. I know she needs at least 2nd grade math next year and quickly 3rd grade math shortly if she continues on the rate of learning she is exhibiting. But I am nervous about what it will do to her stress levels.

Slammie, just throwing out some ideas based on sudden change in behavior with dd4.5. We have had phases where she is just so stubborn, disobedient and destructive. Here is what has worked/were the causes:
1. Growth spurts
2. School fatigue/mismatch- she is in a play based preschool but she had a very bad phase in the beginning of the school year. I ran out of all options and one day, just sat her down when she was in a good mood, explained what I am observing (facts, no judgement) and how I miss my happy child. I then asked her what was bothering her. She hated going to school 4 full 6-hour days. She wanted more time with me in the homeschool. I changed my hours at work and she goes 3.5 days now. As soon as we both discussed and agreed to a plan, she transformed back to my delightful child. Like your dd, mine loves friends and school but she can only control herself for so long.
3. Need for more physical activity: my dd has to move, all the time. She twirls and jumps constantly when she talks about things she is passionate about. School tries to control that behavior as it is disruptive to the class. When she comes home, I let her jump on the couch and run around the house to her hearts content. Now that warmer weather is finally here, I take her out and let her ride her bike, climb a tree, etc. she just needs to let it out, she is much calmer child after that.
I hope at least some of this is relevant to your situation! Hugs and this too shall pass.

My DD9 is a major PITA to everyone in the family (me, DH, DD18 and DD16). She always has to be doing something and bugs the rest of us endlessly. She also can get frustrated if she doesn't understand something immediately. She is better with her older sisters explaining the homework than me. Perhaps another kid explaining (if one is available) would be better than Mom or Dad.

I don't even know if she is gifted. She doesn't have the sensory issues, though DD16 did at age six. We got tired of it and told her she was too old to do that stuff (clothing, food texture, etc.). She still has some issues but she hides them from others because that is what is socially acceptable. I know others might not like that technique, but she now outwardly appears normal in that respect.

I am open to all suggestions. My older two were not like this at age nine - they could entertain themselves. Perhaps being close in age helped. The problem with physical activities is if she doesn't get it immediately - riding a bike, hitting a ball, etc. - she quits. She will be doing just fine in a physical activity/sport for a few months, then faces some sort of "failure" and quits. We've made her continue to a logical stopping point (e.g. earning a belt in karate), but we have trouble having her stick with anything. Never even went to the next karate class to receive her belt after she passed the test - she didn't even care. Middle kid has some perfectionist issues with sports, but not to the degree that she expects she will never strike out, never make an error, etc. While the older two were sometimes balking at going to practice or a game, they would go (and were happy once they got there). Youngest will yell, scream, cry that she doesn't want to go, will not get dressed in her uniform, and sometimes locks herself in a room. We have had punishments, but doesn't seem to work. I sympathize with your situation.

My two kids had two different causes for this sort of issue.

#2 looks like this when her perfectionism starts to come to the fore. The solution is to pick something she feels stuck on and help her make actual progress in that skill. Suddenly she is ready to work harder on all skills then and make progress on them, mood improves, all fixed until the next time.

#1 was in the early stages of a major health issue. It's probably worth a checkup to see if your doctor can see if anything is wrong. I'll send you a PM on our exact situation.

A few random thoughts for you -

I have a dd with environmental allergies and absolutely yes, they can and do impact her behavior in a huge way when it's allergy season. If your dd has allergies that are bothering her, I'd look into giving her a daily antihistamine if you aren't doing that already - I wouldn't do it without consulting her dr, but that is one thing that our dr recommends for our dd and it does help.

Second thing - when I see a change in behavior with children, I think it's always important to try and see what else changed in the child's life around the same time (if there was anything that changed). Since this change in behavior took place at the same time your dd was moved into new pullouts at school, absolutely I'd look closely at that to see if that's the root of the frustration.

One thing I wondered about was the difference in your dd's GAI vs FSIQ - because a lot of the behaviors you are describing happened with my previously very mellow 2e ds when he hit 1st grade... but we didn't realize it was due to the 2nd e until he was most of the way through 2nd grade. I took a quick look back at your previous posts but didn't see anything huge that stands out in your dd's test scores that might indicate a second "e" - but just curious - were her scores on the subtests in PSI and WM on the WISC similar ranges or did you see any large discrepancies? If there is a tiny second "e" challenge going on, it might show up when higher demands are placed in academics - even though from the surface to a parent it looks like there shouldn't be any reason your child isn't able to do the work. Not sure that makes sense, but for example, we knew our ds was really smart, yet he was throwing fits when it was time to do his homework. Didn't make sense. Our initial reaction as parents was to assume the work was to easy because it was very simple math and he knew how to add/subtract/etc already and he was working on issues like figuring out how to operate a rudder on an airplane to maximize airspeed etc - in his head. The gotcha was the math homework was supposed to be written down on paper and he has a challenge with handwriting and written expression. The clue to the challenge was in uneven WISC subtest scores. So that's my long way of explaining why I asked about the subtest scores and why I looked back through for scores when I saw the difference in FSIQ vs GAI . I also have a dd who had an undiagnosed vision issue, which also first showed up in a huge discrepancy on WISC subtests - totally unrelated to IQ, and totally out of line with her other scores - in her case, it was the symbol search under PSI. My guess though, is that the psych who tested your dd would have noted anything very out-of-range if she saw something. OTOH, my ds had his first WISC at 6 with a dip in processing speed subtests, and it was perceived to be "methodical pace" and "perfectionism" and "not concerned with timed tests due to age" by the psych who tested him.

It's also possible it's age-related - kids go through a growth spurt (emotionally) around 6-7 years old where they start to define themselves as individuals outside of their parents - prior to this age they see themselves somewhat as extensions of their parents, so as they mature in this way it's a time when they may start to argue/etc at home.

Last thought - I have one dd who is simply "like this" - it's her nature. It's exhausting to parent lol! We were told by the psych who tested her that she simply needed much more of a challenge than she was getting in school. DD agreed with that too - but she is in a position where she can't accelerate without completing a certain level of work first, and she just refuses to do it. She's also a 2e kid, but her firecracker-ness is just a part of who she is that is unrelated to her intelligence. At the moment she's jumping up and down the stairs ignoring the vocab lessons she's behind on in school. She doesn't like to do vocab. It's not the easiest work ever for her - she does have a challenge that impacts reading, and she's much more of a math/stem type personality. But this is work she *can* do, and it's not so out-there-easy that it's boring her to tears - she just doesn't want to do it. I am basically holding out hope that once she's middle-school age she'll find her motivation (it happened for both of her older siblings so there's hope!)

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - fwiw, I suggested several different things, but in your case, I'd really *really* be looking at what's up with the pullouts because of the timing and the change in behavior.

Have you met her new teacher?

The pattern rings with threads in the past here where a kid is mixed with a completely incompatible teacher, notably of the strict authoritarian sort. Worse if the teacher doesn't believe that gifted is a real thing.

Perfect wording! I'd really focus on this, but if the issues all began in March it might be the mental exertion in combination with seasonal allergies. Throw in a growth spurt, which it sounds like her eating habits might suggest, and you could have a storm of issues brewing. There might not be a silver bullet here.

Has she ever been assessed for an autism-spectrum disorder? The sensory sensitivities, walking on toes, emotional volatility, etc., are common in kids with Asperger's syndrome.

Our DD (now 11) acted extremely similarly when her school situation was inappropriate. While allergies, illness, etc. can also be a factor, I'd take a closer look at the school. Here are a few things to think about:

Intellectually gifted doesn't necessarily mean having additional physical maturity. The long days might just be too much, particularly if the academic level is still not appropriate. So she went from "relax and play all day" to "have to sit still and work and work, but not on anything interesting."

K - 2nd is a time of major physiological changes. When our DD was in these classes, we needed to constantly advocate for things like snack time (so she didn't crash and flip out in class -- you'd think teachers would understand this sort of thing).

Some of the things you describe sound like perfectionism and performance anxiety. Maybe being in the higher classes has given her the idea that she has to be perfect in all areas, or that there's something wrong with her because she's still not happy, or that by complaining she will disappoint you after you got her into this special situation. If she was anticipating that this would finally give her something interesting to learn, it might just be crushing for her to realize that that's not the case.

Finally, she could be feeling abnormal. It's hard doing things that are different from the other kids and it's hard being younger.

KathrynH had a very wise point about a perfect storm of factors contributing to this as well.

When my son was that age, it was the pull-outs. I didn't know anything about it until the teacher reported that he refused to read for the reading specialist and banged his head on the desk. They concluded he couldn't read but he was reading Harry Potter at home.

I asked him what was going on in a non-confrontational, matter-of-fact way. He said that he was pulled out of the classroom in the middle of an activity. It didn't matter that the activity was below his skill level; it mattered that he wanted to be there working with his friends and that pulling him out made him feel weird. He needed the social stimulation MORE than the intellectual stimulation.

That was a trend that continued when we moved to California and discussed putting him in third grade here. He decided he would rather be with his age-mates, even if it meant being bored. Since then, he has matured a fair bit and now he is ready to be with his intellectual peers; again, according to him.

The other thing I noticed is that the pull-outs come at the end of the day. That is the worst time for my son as he has been thinking all day already and is ready to just ease back.

One more anecdata:
My son told his first-grade teacher at 9AM that he needed a break; she responded with, "You just got here!" She was talking about that school day; he was talking about a regression period. He needed to take a few steps back in order to digest what he had been taught. I only know that because it is a recurring theme for us and usually he will ask for a burrito wrap when life has gotten to that point.

When he does, we use his blanket and burrito wrap him, and he takes it easy with school for a couple of days. It only takes a day or two before he's ready for a new challenge but he NEEDS that downtime to process.

The anger and irritability, combined with constant eating, makes me think you should rule out hyperthyroidism (Graves). It's rare in children but very worth ruling out with a simple blood test.

http://www.gdatf.org/about/about-graves-disease/children-graves/

Oh yea, we have one of these, so I'm right there with you and I feel your pain! I see a lot of similarities in your post. DD8 is great at school and most other places (if DH and I aren't around), but as soon as we get her in the car to come home it starts - massive attitude, defiance, total drama! Consequences don't work and no amount of reasoning does any good. You can ask her to do something very simple like pick her wet towel up off the floor and - WHAM - it starts.
It has escalated over the last several months to the point that DH and I are trying to figure out if we need to get her into therapy or something. My stress level is sky high and I feel like we really need to get a handle on what is going on for the sake of everyone in the family. Like you, we can't find a counselor/therapist within a reasonable distance that has any experience in giftedness, so we are either stuck with dealing on our own or trying out someone that "thinks" they can help.
She eats very little, and is a picky eater to boot. We don't let her snack too much in the hopes that she will eat more at mealtimes, but maybe we need to let her snack more.
I don't think she has any allergies - no obvious symptoms anyway. DH and I have discussed trying to eliminate some things from our family diet to see if that changes anything, but that seems so daunting to me.
Good luck and hang in there!

I'm sorry. My child has had moments like that and it is very stressful. When it was school related, the worst behavior was right after school ended and then the behavior usually was better as the evening went on.

I agree that it sounds like it could be a growth spurt (the hunger part). If so, that is normal.

However, I really also think it sounds like a doctor appointment is in order to figure out the allergies and if there may be another issue. She may need to see a specialist to have a plan for treatment. Although the educational fit also may need to be addressed, I think if she feels crummy, everything else is going to be harder than it needs to be.

It may be a combination of things, but I think a doctor visit would be my first priority. Good luck!

Check her allergy meds. Seriously, they can have this effect. MY DS was a moody irritated mess on Zyrtec (my friend just happened to mention he was acting like her child when he was on Zyrtec and I looked at the side efftcts and it is actually a listed side effect). There is another med that is notorious for causing quite severe behavioral problems... I forget the name of it but my niece is on it. I decline to have DS try it because the behavioral stuff was just too risky. I'll text my brother and find out what the name is and post back.

Singulair (monolukast sodium) is what you are thinking of.

It works really well for a lot of people but does cause issues with some kids. I was aware of the side effects before we started using it, it worked well for DC for a while with no behavior issues. Then we had to switch to a different generic (insurance issues), and then there were behavior issues so we discontinued and asked the doctor for other choices. There are a lot of choices for allergy and asthma meds and it really all depends on the person which one will work with the least side effects.

Yes that's it! I have to say, I have even tried meds knowing there could be behavioral issues and then still wondered why my DS was acting up. Over Christmas break I tried a med with DS and specifically waited until Christmas break b/c I knew it could cause side effects like that and then still neglected to make the connection that DS was being a terror because of that. Often, for me, it is not intuitive or obvious... At the end of two weeks, it dawned on me "Oh wait, could this be the meds?" Of course, when we took him off of it, he was totally back to himself. It's like certain drugs take his regular irritations and annoyances and amps them up so high... Anyway, definitely something to look into!

The OP's DD shares three traits with my DD9 at that same age: giftedness, extroversion, perfectionism, and explosive behaviors. And they were all very closely related. The first two traits were placed in direct opposition with each other during her school day... she desperately wanted to learn something new, and she desperately wanted to have peer friends in school. She had a teacher who was forcing her to choose between the two. She could either sit by herself at the computer and learn something while the rest of the kids did a group activity, or she could join with the group and learn nothing.

Either way, she was going to have her needs go unmet. And she was never going to let her frustration show, because of her perfectionism... the idea of getting her clip moved down was horrifying to her, and she felt it important to be the best-behaved child in class.

It was this bottling up of her frustrations all day that exhausted our DD mentally, and caused her to boil over the moment she got home.

So, my advice to you would be, don't assume the reason your DD is exhausted is because of the writing.

Also, one of the ways she needed us to deal with this was to give her some serious downtime at home. We scaled way back on her organized activities and just let her play. Your DD's lying about the number of times she's practiced a piano piece may be a way of trying to tell you she needs to scale back, too.

The way I think of it the 'normal' stages are not in the same order for us. So, in general, it seems to me that however it happens that the gifted brain is so far advanced, that independent, intense characteristic is right there with it (the good with the not so fun right now). Or, I think of it as the adolescent stage getting out of the way early and then when everyone else is going through adolescence we are working on our dream paths whatever those passion might be. The hardest part is that when you are in groups the gifted behavior can stand out especially if the child is highly verbal with strong lungs. The sensitivities issue (which I think is what the author was trying to express in the famous story, the princess and the pea) becomes a real asset as an adult. Think of all of the 'unique' people who sense things differently. What is unbelievable to me is that after all of this time (kinda the there is nothing new under the sun theory), these kids are still so misunderstood and it is so sad. It is probably a true statement that the smarter the child, the more challenging to raise. Also, I have found that it should all be traceable within the family and that it didn't just come out of nowhere. And, it is really important to pass on the details to all related generations so that they can maximize their happiness factor. I read a statistic a while ago that 71% of gifted/highly gifted people never have a child. The childhood can be very challenging; it is not easy. Look for what triggers your child's unhappiness. Gifted children are very sensitive to the feeling of being controlled. It is also probably a true statement that there will be many intense power struggles, so I guess the answer is to provide a safe environment in which everyone knows the boundaries but the child feels like she has control of her day, her choices within your parameters. It is exhausting as you have no doubt experienced and read. Just one of those power struggles can zap you, so you have to gather yourself and sort of stay one step ahead by anticipating what the child's reaction is going to be in a certain situation. I am guessing that it may have been easier in olden days when families were on farms, but now that people are altogether in cities and surrounding suburbs, it can be such a dilemma because you have to the best parent to that child and you have to 'fit' into society at large. It is all about balancing everything for the gifted child until the child learns how to balance themselves. You are doing the right thing with a solid sleep schedule. Focus on all of the positives. Don't let anyone make you feel badly if your child can get overstimulated. All of those feelings that she has will be assets to her in her future. Help her to spend her day doing what she loves as long as it figures into the family plan if at all possible. Maybe someone at Davidson knows more info. that can help you. I think you are right on top of it. Hang in there.

Do you have some studies or something for this? I only ask because this is so DS! And when someone takes power in a meaningless way and "just to show him who is boss," it doesn't just result in an annoying meltdown (or at this point he may not even tantrum as he used to as small child); it seems to really affect his sense of self worth and depresses him. I was the same and had pretty rigid parents who were all into "showing you who was boss" and "because I said so" and I think it resulted in..., not sure the word/phrase - mal-adjustment? certain poor emotional skills? And of course was really bad for my rel'p with my parents. So I raise DS differently. And I am not permissive but a person/kid like this has to be approached differently... Anyway just wondering if there is literature on this...

I remember DD at 6. She also became incredibly defiant and generally made life miserable at home. It was the second time (first was 3.5 years) that I went back to reading parenting books wondering "who is this child?" I recommend "Your Six-Year-Old: Loving and Defiant" by Louise Bates Ames. The series is old, but has such great advice. This is in addition to all the advice already offered. Sometimes it may be a developmental issue that, thankfully, will resolve. Hang in there!

Ah, as the mother of an intense little firecracker - take heart! You are not alone ((HUGS)). I wish I could tell you that it gets better, but I am not there yet!

DD8, an outspoken extrovert, HAS learned to be fairly compliant at school, but she sometimes then EXPLODES at home. She procrastinates about completing her homework (this is where the arguments start) and generally complains to the point of practically making those around her miserable. We did not have her tested until this past year (sort of unavoidable since this is when the G&T program starts), and I have now started to wonder if there is a bit of an educational mismatch going on - we are still sorting this out.

DD is a ridiculously picky eater (a super-taster perhaps?). DD has not exhibited the toe-walking and does not seem to have any allergies, but I did want to offer support for the intensity...boy, oh boy - do we understand that!

Thank you all. Truly. You all have given me so much to think about and process. But most of all..I no longer feel ALONE!! And, thank you for commiserating with me!

Polarbear, thank you for your input; you are always so helpful. I do not believe she has any undetected 2e issues. As my DS has vision problems, I have had her eyes checked several times by the behavioral opt. and thankfully she has no problems.

1frugalmom, yes your DD sounds just like mine! I hope you are able to find something/someone that will help your family. Have you read living with intensity and emotional intensity for gifted students? I tried some of the techniques yesterday and it helped. Hugs!!

My DS has ASD and she couldn't be more different from him so I am pretty darn sure she does not have aspergers. Super confident and GETS social nuances extremely well. Always has.

Ahhh..the meds. I have not thought of the side effects. Thank you so much for bringing that to my attention. She was on Zyrtec and I have put her on Claritin today. She is also now on nasacort. I have tried avoiding medicating her this much for some time, but allergies where we live are horrendous so I am having to medicate her everyday. I will update if I see any of the behaviors subside.

She is having no behavior problems at school or her pullouts. Her 2nd grade teacher has told me that she does not belong in the group because she is so far ahead in her reading/comprehension but loves having her there. 1st grade teacher was concerned with her writing but is amazed how much she has progressed in the last month and how she has slotted into the class routine. She feels this class whilst it has helped with the writing is not an appropriate placement.

Dude, thank you for your wise words; Your posts are always so spot on. I agree this is happening with DD also.

Thanks again for all your input, I truly appreciate it!

Allergies?

DD8 is not too bad off with itchy eyes and runny nose, but her attitude 'suffers' quite a bit when she is irritated by allergies.

Spring is bad; we give her 1/2 dose of allegra childrens most days for spring and it really makes a huge difference: cooperative sweet child vs. overheated meltdown rage queen.

oh, ps, I just saw the posts about allergy meds making people cranky, and we've had that too for me and ds: can't take zyrtec or the other major one, claritin for more than a couple days without starting to tear people's heads off or break down crying. Oh and digestive issues to boot.

Seriously they should put that on the label.

anyway you do have to fiddle with what works for each person/ how much. we usually go with partial doses around here. example: one whole allegra adult pill for me still makes me have tummy aches, one 1/2 pill I am good, allergies are pretty well under control as well.

also, I and ds are getting allergy shots to help longer term, and I do see some actual improvement, for both of us.

Have any here had success with with Quercetin?

My DD was put on Zyrtec after a viral infection years ago and after reading this thread we are seeing the allergist later today!