So, first of all a brief intro (in bullet form):

* DH, just turned 11, PG, highly social, high-strung, perfectionist

* Tested at 7.5yo after a disastrous 1st grade year -
WISC IV, hit ceiling in several areas, decided against retesting with extended norms

* Attempted advocacy with neighborhood school ineffective. Got her into accelerated math and science magnet school (1 year advanced)

* Lasted two years, switched to brick and mortar homeschool school (real building with other students and teachers, but she's technically a homeschooler) where classes have broad age ranges

* Started midway through "4th" grade with mostly middle school academic classes (with age level fun classes). Currently in second year of middle school classes.

It's been a rocky road and I'm glad we're in a place that's good for her academically as well as emotionally. It's not perfect (she finds the atmosphere too relaxed and would like more rigor). The school doesn't give grades until high school, but we do in concert with teacher input, so she's held to standards -- which she likes. She's grown so much more comfortable with who she is (she used to hate it) and in being herself. And I see her more willing to work hard and actually working to learn stuff for the first time.

She's at the absolute low end of age bands for most of her core classes, but she's already been invited into a few out of band classes with special permission. I hope the school will remain flexible as she starts needing their high school level offerings. And the local community college will take students at 13 (with the expected hoops and bureaucracy) for joint high school / college. One of my colleagues' daughters did so, so I know it's possible.

Our biggest issue right now is us. We know it's better for her emotional and mental health to be able to work at her natural pace... not to be held back. But it's all coming at us really fast and I'm not sure how ready we all are. Can she take the workload? Is she mature enough?

She's expressed a strong interest (obsession?) in a particular early college program and we're supporting her dreams, even while we know that the program is only right for small number of kids. We never wanted to rush her. We always said it wasn't a race. But here we are, letting her set the pace, and it feels like racing.

Because at the same time she's just a little girl who has a hard time going to sleep and loves summer camp and gets so nervous about things. Who feels like she has to be extra mature in her classes because all the kids are older. Who asks us to push her in meeting her goals, but whom we don't want to push too much. Who still pouts at having to do chores or homework when her friends are calling.

I see a lot of posts here from folks with younger kids (and I wish I'd had that support then, when she was a baby we and we were at our wits end), but fewer from folks with older kids. So to those of you who do have preteens and young teens, can you offer any words of support or advice?

That would be a very young spouse! Based on the context of the message, I presume this was meant to be DD who is 11.

The social/emotional piece is important. There are other recent threads which discuss perfectionism and anxiety in case that may be of interest.

There is a possible red flag if a child "feels like she has to be extra mature in her classes because all the kids are older", as there is a difference between this and a child who naturally is more mature and on the wave length of the older students, finding herself to be more interested in the things which may be on their minds (world issues, careers, etc), and finding the older students to be a closer match intellectually.

You may wish to make a wishlist/checklist (for example a computer spreadsheet) for tracking the items your daughter believes she sees in the early college program she is interested in.

You may wish to make arrangements to visit the school whose early college program your daughter is interested in, asking questions and making observations about items on the wishlist. Receive the school literature, talk to other students, meet the professors, and arrange to have your daughter spend a night on campus if it is a residential (boarding) school.

You may also wish to make arrangements for visiting the local community college you mentioned. Tracking the answers/observations about each of these educational setting placement options (and any others which may arise) may provide for confident decision-making.

Hi Ivy!


I have a DD who is like yours-- just three years older than she is. My DD is finishing high school this year, and taking mostly dual enrollment classes this final year.

She went through a VERY rough patch at about 11yo-- if you hunt through my very first posts on the forum here, you'll see what I mean.

One thing that I'd consider as your DD moves into high school coursework (well, there are several, but this one stands out to me);

make sure that you have a way to keep an eye on perfectionism/anxiety as it relates to grades.

I think that letter grading and the pressure that it produces led my DD (in part) toward socially-prescribed perfectionism. Yes, she's always been a perfectionist, but this is a particularly virulent and toxic variety.

Honestly, being a parent to one of these kids, they do have to be "older" than they actually are to fit in with academic peers 3-7y older. That's okay as long as they have a way to be themselves (er, maybe just other ASPECTS of themselves?) in other domains.

I wouldn't want my DD to actually BE 18yo. I like that she's 14, and that she is (mostly) okay with being 14yo. She has learned which facets of herself are most appropriate in which settings-- and while it makes me a little wistful that she can't be her COMPLETE self anywhere... it doesn't necessarily bother HER.

Does that make sense?

If you're comfortable saying, there are parents who drive-by post and have older children... they might be able to offer insights into the specific EC program that your DD likes.

First of all look at the positives. There is a school she can work at her own pace in - they are open to here moving to higher classes. There is a college she can go to at 13. Both these things make my jaw drop in amazement.

And like a pp said - start a spread sheet, visit places, collect information and involve your daughter in tge planning (I assume you are already but just in case).

Ooops. Worst typo ever!


I understand what you mean. Though she's really inconsistent about it. Many of her friends are a couple of years older and in the classes where she's with more of her age range she complains that the other kids are immature. So I think it's more about finding her place and understanding who she is (the work of a lifetime I suppose). Her middle school classes have a few other younger kids too. There's a 6-year-old in her Biology class who also takes Algebra II.

It makes sense that a school that is that flexible will attract more gifted kids than a random population neighborhood school. The kids who's parent are willing/able to be flexible end up in the few corners where they can get what they need.

Thank you for all your other good suggestions as well. I think in our heads we still think we have many years to sort this stuff out, but we may not. There's a sort of inherited knowledge that you get as your child enters middle and then high school that I think we might be missing. I think we'll have to make a concerted effort in tracking more of that knowledge down.

This makes perfect sense. We try to always have activities where intellect doesn't make a difference and that are just for fun (summer camp -- which is pure old school outdoor camp, not academic camp, martial arts, swimming, etc.).


It's the Mary Baldwin PEG program (only the most extreme version of early college she could find, apparently). Even if she could get in (and competition is fierce) it may not be emotionally feasible to live across the country and dive headlong into full time university education. That said, we're not telling her that. We're letting her drive her interest in this area, supporting where we can (I called the admissions office at her request and passed along her questions had them send some material) but being realistic as well. And we've made it clear that the local community college is another way to wrap up high school and start college early if she needs to. That's pretty much the graduation path at her school for college bound kids, off to CC at 16 (or before).

Thank you so much for your feedback. I realize that there's a drop off in participation as these kids get older (I believe there's a thread on that topic here as well) so having someone who's ahead on the road is very valuable to me.

You are absolutely right. I realize my post was a bit hand-wringing. We are incredibly lucky that we've found the resources we have. My daughter hates learning alone and I've only just got her open to the idea of a skype class, maybe. I don't know what we'd do if we didn't have her school (and if any readers are in Portland OR or surrounding, PM me and I'll share information about the school).

We have been going through a bad patch where she was stressed and anxious herself over growing up and at the same time complaining most of her classes are still too easy (still?). So it's a process.

When we first had her tested, the educational consultant (who arranged the testing and helped us explore options based on the result) said that the trick with these kids is that even when you find a good solution, it doesn't necessarily stay a good solution forever. I smell change in the wind and sometimes it's scary.

Thanks for your input. As frustrated as we were just a few years ago with her schooling (OMG the stories I could tell), I still forget what it's like to come through the storm and land in a calm patch... at least momentarily.

Has she looked at some of the other (less far away) options for early college? There are actually quite a number of very prestigious and well-regarded programs specifically for very young college entrants--

Hint: UW has a program that we looked at-- HARD.

We're not that far from you.

Added:
Another path to consider is admission to a conventional college setting a year or three early, but within the confines of a specialty program, like an honors college.

That is the route that my DD ultimately settled upon. Our other realistic option was Reed, but that is not really a campus that I want my 15yo on.



If you think that the UW program is one to chase down, you might want to think about a jump over the river to establish residency about 2-3 years before she gets there. We hadn't quite anticipated JUST how bad the differential w.r.t. out-of-state-tuition would be-- it's a difference of +20K a year now.


One tip for your DD:

http://www.saturdayacademy.org/ase

This is the best program. It was an amazing experience for my DD when she participated.

The problem seems to be that everything seems fine and then it isn't and you are left thinking "what the %&£ do I do now?"

I know. I've been confining my anxiety to just how fast she's growing up and not even really focusing on how much sooner the big bills are going to come!


Oh you are very nearby aren't you! We did TAG camp there last summer (in addition to fun camp -- Namanu). It was a great program, but unfortunately not advanced enough (I tried to get her into the 6-8th grade session instead of the 3-5th, but they absolutely balked based on age -- sigh). The good news is that I buttonholed the director at and now she has a note in her file that she is allowed to take above level classes with them (with some restrictions). She's got a veterinary visit class next month that she's very excited about. If you have other recommendations for classes, that would be awesome. She hates to learn alone (we started out with ORVA and looked at Connections as well) so I'm always hunting for additional possibilities (we've been looking at the OMSI science classes for example).

Thanks again for all the great data.

Yeah-- the ASE internships are way better than their other offerings, which are grade-level locked. DD has enjoyed some of the programming, make no mistake, but it was hardly intellectually much to write home about.

If you have a chance, DEFINITELY look into that internship (ASE) program in particular. There are quite a few internships that have age restrictions associated, but mostly they are grade-based, so radical accelerants aren't shut out. They've had participants as young as 12 and 13.

We also got shut out of appropriate offerings with OSU's summer programs-- in spite of DD's grade designation, in fact, w/r/t the "gifted" summer camp. I have to say, it might be fine for MG kids, but 90th percentile and up groupings were so not going to work for my DD, either.

She did enjoy their (regular, not GT) robotics offerings, and had fun socializing in science camp when she was about 9-10yo, but after that it was increasingly clear that she'd outstripped the level of most offerings. She did some computer science, I think.

OMSI classes can be good, but I think that you'll find that many of them are pretty remedial at this point, too. The last one of those we did, my DD 9 wound up talking to the instructor about special adaptations in the squid eye. She was fairly uninterested in the standard spiel, though she was a year or two younger than anyone else at that table.

If you're willing to drive a bit, the Hatfield Marine Science center and Oregon Coast Aquarium both have great programs-- both do homeschool days that have a variety of flexible levels of instruction, and there is also a youth volunteer program at the aquarium-- we know that they WILL take younger teens, since one of my DD's HG friends is doing it now, and he only turned 15 last summer.

We're with the latter of the two virtual schools here. It's somewhat better than the former for GT programming and flexible differentiation strategies... that's not to say that I think it is "good" by any means. As you've discovered, youth program organizers are VERY wise to the TigerParenting culture here in the Si Forest, and they have hard firewalls re: grade levels in program admissions. Ergo, we need that grade level to reflect ability enough so that DD has the access to what she needs in extracurriculars. Not ideal, but it's the least-worst situation for us.

That meant a +3 skip and judiciously searching out programs that are pretty high level for the grade range. So far that has worked out pretty well.

It's the best we can do-- we're realistically just out of range of routinely doing the PDX thing for educational opportunities, though OSU and U of O are both within reach.

:nodding:

In STEM early college programs, the two that we looked very hard at were at Texas (UNT in Denton), and in Seattle (UW). Both have the advantage of being wide, wide open insofar as the considerations that CFK lists. Those are really important, and even moreso if your child isn't ready to "choose" one thing at age 13 (14/15/16) when they begin college formally.

It's the major reason we went with a flagship state school, ultimately-- there were small liberal arts colleges that looked great, but wouldn't have had the high-level research opportunities... and there were undergrad STEM powerhouses, but they would have lacked some of the humanities elements.

A full-service Uni seemed the best solution.

Dual enrollment programs through the public schools in our state are an amazing bargain. Ours in particular, we pay a one-time $25 fee to the community college, and she can take as many courses as are offered through the local high school-- free of any additional charge (yes really). DD didn't know about the program sooner, or she could have done it already with three other classes, but she's got 3 other dual enrollment classes this year-- two in math, and one in English.

The two programs that I know about (because we looked at them, and also because I know some people with kids in one or the other, either now or in the past):

https://tams.unt.edu/


https://robinsoncenter.uw.edu/programs/

Thank you, thank you, thank you all!

This is really great information and has got me thinking in very different and productive directions.

HowlerKarma, you are absolutely right about the parenting culture here and about the challenges it brings. Her classes at the homeschool school help, but it's not quite the same as having a cohort grade level. And as for the community college tuition issue, AFAIK (and please correct me if I'm wrong) she needs to be enrolled in a district high school. Which makes me think that one of the virtual academies might be the thing to do as she gets closer to that.

puffin, you've got it in one! Change is the only constant.

CFK, my daughter has wanted to be a Veterinarian since she was 20 months old and her favorite show was Animal Planet's Emergency Vets. She told me then she wanted to be a "boo boo animal doctor" and that hasn't changed. In that case, pre-vet would be followed by vet school and she would be an adult by the time she entered the workforce. I expect she won't be ready for university work (as opposed to community college dual enrollment) until closer to 13 or 14. College is also a really expensive way to "find yourself" so if she was less certain or becomes less certain (she's still so young!), I'd be more focused on alternate educational experiences before university (study abroad, volunteering, internship, etc.).

To those who wisely pointed out that the importance of knowing her goals, this came up in conversation last night. It turns out that what she's really hoping for are intellectual peers. She sees Mary Baldwin as a way to make friends and be close to girls her own age who are more like her. Which is sad and sweet at the same time.

But there are ways this need can potentially be met now, through certain academic camps perhaps, which will help her get what she needs and perhaps evaluate college options more clearly.

Thank you again. I was just talking today with someone in the same boat who's child is a few years younger. They were appreciative of the perspective of someone who was a bit farther along on the path. I feel the same way about this thread.

Hi Everyone. I thought it would be useful to give a quick update on one thing I mentioned in my original email. I went to talk to the head of my daughter's school (the brick and mortar school for homeschoolers) and she was super understanding and helpful. She had a clear understanding of where my daughter is intellectually, seemed to know about her classes and performance/maturity, and immediately understood what I was there for. She looked at my daughter and said "you need to keep that brain working and busy."

So the gist is that:
a) DD can take classes above her age level that aren't marked "no exception"
b) DD can take classes above her age level marked "no exception" with special permission (and not all those classes ARE appropriate for a younger audience, so I completely understand this restriction)
c) When she is closer to 13, the director will offer a personal introduction to the early admission director at our local community college. She suggested that DD apply even before she turns 13 so that she can take a spring class that would start right around her birthday (she thought a lab science would be a nice first choice).

In addition she pointed us to EPGY as a source for online learning that she indicated offers more instructional support and online interaction and mentioned summer programs (which we are already looking into). Once the spring term catalog comes out, I can send a list of the classes DD is interested in picking up for the rest of the year (a nice chewy history class probably).

So I am hugely relieved and impressed. I mean, it's one thing to run a super flexible school, it's another to step outside the already very flexible guidelines to accommodate someone who needs it. Such a difference from the public schools!

I know they have age limits for a good reason that has to do with the parenting culture around these parts as much the kids themselves. My daughter has seen classes she was excited about get simplified (my daughter used the term "dumbed down" though I don't think that's fair) because there were more kids on the young end of the scale in the class.

So DD is happy about that (though she's still lonely -- which is a different problem to solve).

Again, if there's anyone in the PDX / Beaverton area who's interested in more detail on the school, PM me. Expect me to ask your children's ages though since I'm on the hunt for possible social connections. ;-)