Tomorrow I meet with my DD8's third grade teacher. Whenever I help out in class her teacher assures me that she is doing fantastic, and is one of the very best students especially in ELA. However, her report card shows that she has moved from pretty much all 4's (exemplary, on a scale of 1-4) in second grade to only 3's (proficient) in third grade. It does not make any sense to me. Test reports that were sent home appear to indicate a more than just proficient student:
- the "beginning of third grade ELA/ Reading" score is 97th percentile, with a Lexile score of 1005L.
- Cogat scores: Verbal 95 percentile, Math 88 percentile, Nonverbal 94 percentile
- Iowa test scores are pending
- She scored just under the cut-off for Single Subject Acceleration for ELA at the beginning of this schoolyear.

DD attends a Magnet school with Gifted in the name. However, there is one part-time AG teacher only for all grades, and she is spread very thin. Services are pretty much limited to 4th and 5th grade. DD has not had any pull-out AG services this year (she had them last year for math and ELA).

What should I ask for as far as differentiation?

This is a girl who reads nonstop, and will do anything to get more reading time. We do some after-schooling with IXL and workbooks. I see this school as offering minimal services for AG students, and am thinking about doing more after/ home schooling. I get so tired of advocating for my children, and getting the impression that the school sees me as one of "those" parents and trying to do just the bare minimum for gifted kids. Kids who are below grade level get services left and right, but AG kids get pretty much nothing. I will stop here, getting too frustrated...

from my limited Kindergarten experience, it's quite possible she's getting 3s now so she can receive 4s at the end of the year to show "improvement" which is what schools are after. DS5 had all 3s and 2s on his K report card couple weeks ago even though he's far beyond in science and especially in math (2-3 years ahead) yet he did not receive a single 4 on his report card while he WAS getting 4s on the individual assessments that came home for us to look at.

We took him out and are now homeschooling so don't have to worry about report cards anymore.

Yes, my experience is that no one gets a 4 in the first trimester in elementary school unless they're doing college-level work, and maybe not then.

If they give them 4's now what will they give them at the end of the year? And how can they possibly know everything required to get a 4 when it hasn't been covered yet?

And more to the point how can the teacher know she has reached that level when she is being very careful not to find out. Jaundiced? Me?

Case in point: DS 7 is partially homeschooled. He is doing chemistry at home using a high school text. He is sometimes present at school during science time. If he is there on a test day, he will take their test. Always gets 100%+ (as he gets extra credit for doodling orbitals for various elements for example). The teacher rated DS "at grade level" (2nd grade) and he got the equivalent of a B- on his report card.

Report cards mean nothing at the elementary level for HG kids (in general ed environments). In fact we told the school that we didn't need one for DS but they felt the need to create one. If it makes them happy I am not going to get in the way!

Maybe I will try not to worry so much about the numbers... However, this is the first time EVER since starting Kindergarten that we have not seen at least half of the subjects have 4's. Seriously, this is fuelling my thoughts of homeschooling. We started doing more home/ after schooling this year, because of school frustrations, especially the lack of differentiation or challenging work. Does ANYBODY get AIG pull-out services or other arrangements in third grade? In NC? I don't think my DD is PG or HG, most likely "just normal gifted" in the 130-140 range, just like her sibling who was tested (with an eye on whole grade acceleration). I think this one is just bobbing along and trying to please her teacher, while not wanting to look too different from classmates. It is hard to show exemplary work (to get a 4) when there is no above-grade level work or other way to really show you are exemplary. Or is there?

The scale that your DD is being graded on seems like it should be mastery grading, but in reality, teachers teach as they were taught, and they grade as they were graded. Different teachers include a variety of things that aren't scores indicating level of mastery, like class participation, homework completion, and even behaviors.

Case in point, my third grade DD is getting letter grades for the first time this year. First report card comes home and her lowest grade is in reading. This kid reads on at least a middle school level. Well, her teacher docks points for lateness, and my daughter turned in several reading logs late. As a teacher myself, I'm personally not keen on this, and wouldn't do it in my own classroom.

However, I think it's important that my daughter understands that school, like many other systems in life, is a game, and that if you want to be successful within the context of the game, you need to play by those rules. We're very open with her about our expectations of her, but grades at this age aren't super-meaningful, and we try to convey our feelings about that.

Good luck with your meeting today!

If it's any consolation we have the same problem. I don't even show my kid his report card. He always gets Ps in science and social studies and such but his tests never have anything wrong - he gets %100. He did get an "Advanced" in science last year but I think it was because it was the end of the year and he took it upon himself to write a research papaer on carnivorous plants (he was so enamored and fascinated with them) and shared it with the class. My kid is very far above the other students in his class in math but only got a PH. Same in reading, he's reading grade levels above and only got a PH this report card. I don't fret about ti as long as the 'grades' are not keeping him out of anything.

As to NC, depends on where you are located as to whether and what kind of services you can receive. In Charlotte with TD certification we had pullouts starting in K and full time gifted programming in third grade at a magnet. The talent development coordinator does some pullouts but also provides material and coaching to the teachers.

I was numbed to the irrelevance of grades as a kid, and have a hard time caring what arbitrary neatnes + accuracy loaded scoring has to tell me. But you may want to see her actual tests or other scoring and have a conference with the teacher if it is a big concern. When I look at DS8's tests I can see where he misread a question or accidentally wrote a word wrong and can compare that to whether I know he understands the concept.

From what I have been told, unless my son's teachers are actually instructing, assigning and assessing work at above level (or below level) the have to designate it as on level. So last year my son was in 2nd grade working out of a 3rd grade math book (instruction, work and assessments). He did get above level in math. Reading --he was reading well above level but the majority of his language arts instruction, which includes both reading and writing, and assessment was on level even though he went beyond that daily in class with extra reading.

Maybe that is the case with other schools...if the don't differentiate above level for at least 80% of the instruction,work, and assessment and just modify it on a bit or miss basis then they can't mark it that.

Oh and same goes for below level...if they are just modifying or accommodating a little bit as the IEP dictates or 504 plan or as part of RTI but the majority of instruction is on level usually that is marked "on level with modifications/accommodations". If the student is getting instruction, work and assessment below level every day then it is marked below level.

The party line in our school district is that the kids are graded against the teacher's expectations for them. So if she is performing as well as the teacher thinks she possibly can, she gets a 3. If she were performing better than that, well, the teacher would have higher expectations of her, and she would still get a 3.

yikes - that would be a one-way ticket to apathy for my kid...

To state the obvious, this is highly subjective. A more objective means is needed for communicating how much of the standards or objectives for the grade level the student has mastered, whether the curriculum and learning environment have resulted in incremental progress/growth (or stagnation), and identifying the appropriate curriculum placement to facilitate growth.

It sounds like an indefensibly un-informative grading system. How do they explain it? Do they cite a research study or empirical evidence which has named this as best practice?

I was as grade-conscious as they come when I was in school, but DD's "3s" in 3rd grade (she has quite a few 4s, too) for the first part of the school year are not bothering me one bit. Grades are subjective and as others have pointed out, teachers often like to leave "room for growth" in the first grading period, even if your child is above average.

DD8 also had very high MAP and CogAT scores. Her primary teacher feels she "pushes herself" and goes "above and beyond" and that means more to me than the small number grades. DD also got some 3s on her report card, and I am not even certain she is being appropriately challenged at school. Still, these are not grades for college (nor will they particularly count for anything in the long run), and I think it is actually GOOD for DD to feel she might need to WORK for 4s in some areas (penmanship, effort in gym ).

Oddly (for me, the former uber-grade-conscious student), the 3s are not a worry at all. It sounds like your DD is doing extremely well, and I would just bet those 3s will become 4s in future semesters.

How did the meeting go?

I share the OP's concern. Another poster once described that their child's interim grades at an online school could not be calculated as the term progressed: The school's grading algorithms were not programmed to compare points earned to-date to possible point values of assignments for material covered to-date. This precluded the computation of grades until the term was complete.

This masks measurements and denies the child the opportunity to have information they may need to fully take ownership of their education... for example acquiring skill in time management and prioritizing:
Which subject(s) may require more effort and attention?
Which subject(s) have they mastered allowing them to shift study time to the subject(s) where it is most needed?

Similarly, giving children a grade of "3" (proficient) when they may be working above and beyond seems to be a discrepancy in the feedback provided, masking the truth. The recorded grades and the grading system need to be trustworthy in order to be trusted. Trust may be an underlying issue: Expressing concern about grades may be a proxy for expressing concern regarding the trustworthiness of the system.

It is my understanding that student data is being amassed in longitudinal data systems. Grading practices described in this thread seem to indicate that what is recorded may not reflect student learning, and may be arbitrary at best.

FWIW, my child is in 4th grade at a gifted magnet and gets and has gotten straight As from the start. AFAIK, these are based entirely on tests, assignments, and HW--the teachers give out the calculations, like in a college class, occasionally. We did experience the "meets expectations" going up to "surpasses expectations" phenom at her previous school.

DS5 is in K and is getting the "meets expectations" grades.

I don't look at them as "grades" anymore. It has everything to do with how the child is doing in terms of common core standards but nothing to do with how the child is actually doing on a daily basis on assignments, tests, homework, class work. The only grading system that has any meaning to me is the one where I get rewarded for the work ... on the spot. There is no motivation for me (and my child) in doing my best job, completing 100% correctly and still only get 3 on a 4 point grading scale.

Unfortunately, the powers-that-be are counting on that. They did their research, knew their desired outcome, and chose results among several studies to attempt to illicit their desired response on a broad scale. One antidote may be for parents to keep accurate grade records, copies of test scores, and a portfolio of student work at home. An electronic spreadsheet may prove helpful. Bolster and motivate. Fight the urge to slip into complacency.

ETA: Interested parents may wish to review research related to "locus of control".

So glad to hear there is still some grading which is supported by measured results.

Update - teacher meeting went very well. The grading in third grade is much more strict with the implementation of Core Curriculum. The major reason why a 4/ exemplary was not given was that there has not really been any opportunity to show exemplary work. This week work was started where she will get the chance to show off what she is capable of (and so far is showing "4" level work). The teacher said not to worry, an din fact she is the best reader in all 3 third grade classes. Her independent "start of grade" testing showed her reading level as being comparable to 6th grade level reasing. After the teacher's explanations of the grading and what she is actually seeing in class, I feel so much better. Unfortunately AIG pull-outs in aregular basis are not an option in 3rd grade at this tie, due to budget cuts. I am relieved to hear that my DD did not truly slide backwards but that it is just a matter of strange grading rules. Apparently not a single student in 3rd grade received a 4 in ELA due to lack of opportunities to show what they are capable of.
CogAt and Iowa scores are in: Iowa reading at 99 percentile

That is great.

At our school, no one gets 4s unless they are showing that they are working a full grade level ahead and there are not many opportunities for showing that. So 4s are very rare. I think my ds has only had a couple over his years at school and he is in 3rd grade.

3 is not equal to a B and 4 is not equal to an A.

It is confusing to parents.

Interesting. In our district, they start giving out letter grades in 3rd grade. I do know that the EOG standards have become higher and so to score a IV on those is more difficult.