Friends,

DS7 is taking a living math class in a homeschooling co-op.*

(*For those not used to the lingo: "living math" = using hands-on manipulatives to figure out, say, an equation from actual use of "stuff" instead of being given the equation and being asked to solve for an answer; "co-op" = parent-taught classes in order to give kids classroom opportunities in limited doses that are (more or less) in line with their needs.)

I had to work to get him into the class because he's 7 and the age range is 9-12. She had lots of doubts, even though she has GT kids herself and knows the pain of the lack of fit. I have been worried that she's not going to be fair to him from the start.

I observed today, and truly, I felt like she was dismissing him completely.

He had things to say that were useful contributions, and he said them, but he's quiet and shy, and she didn't listen. At all! I had to say, "Hey, he said..." to get her to pay any attention to him. And after that, I'm not sure she thinks he even really said the things. She seemed to think it was all me. *sigh*

I promised the teacher that she would not have to slow the class down for him, and I still think that is vital. The overall class has to come first. But there's a difference between not slowing down the class and IGNORING a kid! Admittedly, he is not as fast at getting some things as the other kids are, but he is also getting certain things LONG before they do, or coming at problems from a different and interesting tack.

What I see is that he has a firm grasp of the concepts she is teaching coming into the class, but he does not yet have some of the language that she's looking for. But then he used the term "array," a common one in Singapore Math, and I passed it on to her. Her response: "But does anyone here know that term?" "YES!" I said! "My son, who said it!!!" Argh!

I was really frustrated. I'm SERIOUSLY considering just pulling him out. Why don't I?...

DS7 LOVES the class! He thinks it's great fun and says he's learning a lot. He's not frustrated or annoyed by her dismissal, even though he's aware of it. He doesn't mind. He just likes the math.

She says he can stay, but it's clear from her body language and lack of classroom attention that she's not wild about it and she's not going to help him at all. I'm pretty sure she has written him off completely. We discussed what to do--a friendly but charged discussion--and she kept stressing his age. "If he has 3 more years to be exposed to it," she said, "he'll get it fast like the other kids do." I wanted her to get past his age and think about how she would deal with a quiet, deep-but-not-fast 9yo, but she just refused to go there with me. As far as she's concerned, his age is the problem. I think she's not giving him a fair shake and isn't going to.

So, wise men and women, what do I do? Keep him in, as he would like, or pull him out?

BTW, I can be in the class with him part of the time--DS4 is in a different class that requires my attention, too, so I can't be there all the time--but I'm not sure if my presence is very helpful. I think I just frustrated her today, and I know she frustrated me! I was able to get more attention to DS7, at least. Maybe we just have our own little tutorial during the class? But then why be in the class at all?

Even when he made good points that other kids didn't get, she ignored them. When he spoke, she actually talked over him to the other kids. (And she didn't do that when the others talked. I watched for it!)

Clearly, she wants him out. Is it worth my ignoring that, as DS7 is? Or is this a harmful situation? I am firmly on the fence!

P.S. It's a 30-minute drive each way to get to a (less than) 2-hour class. That is a factor for me.

Wow. Tough call. Do you have to make a decision immediately? Or can you let your DS take the class until he stops enjoying it?

JB

This is a tricky situation, because you want your child to have respect for people who are teaching him, but obviously he knows what's going on. I think he's old enough that you can have a conversation with him about what's going on, but maybe put it in different terms so he doesn't feel like she's intentionally being rude to him, even though she appears to be. Maybe say something like, "your teacher isn't used to working with kids your age, and so she might treat you a little differently, even though she doesn't mean to." I would encourage him to speak loudly and clearly in class, then at least all the other kids will know he gets it, and perhaps he can win over the teacher through the other kids?

I can't see that it can hurt him too much if he likes it so much despite the mistreatment, and if you can explain that not all teachers are like this.

Is it only once a week? If he likes it and only has to tolerate the annoying teacher a couple hours a week, maybe just hang in there for a while and see how it goes. Is there any way you could just leave and make it a totally hands off thing or would that be too tough for him then? If he's not complaining, it might be more painful for you than him! Maybe try to talk to him about how he can make himself heard in class.

He can take it until he stops enjoying it. We have already paid for it, so we're not out anything but time (and my patience...) if we stay.



Actually, you hit on what has become the one thing I hope he gets from the class: speaking up for himself!

I think some of the problem is a personality thing. She is outgoing and loud and all-extrovert, all the time! So are her kids. DS7 is...not! I really think part of the problem is that he's an INTJ and she's not valuing what an INTJ can bring to the table. She sees GT as fast, not deep, and certainly not quiet! But when I tried to talk about the situation in terms of personality, she wrote it all off as his age: "When he's older, he'll say so when he doesn't understand." Well, maybe not... (BTW, as we were talking, she kept interrupting me, so perhaps that's more evidence of her not valuing the INTJ personality...)

It meets twice a month. We could just stop going and it's entirely possible that he wouldn't even notice, at least not until it had been a long while! And, yes, kimck, I am pretty sure it's MUCH more painful for me than for him. If he didn't like it so much, I would have said "We quit!" today! For sure!

Anyway, thanks for the things to think about. I'm digesting...

Oh - and I'm on board with kimck's idea about you leaving the room. I think kids sometimes need to be on their own to feel really free to speak up. Although i know nothing about the INTJ's m.o.! (sadly, ds and i are interrupters.)

That's what I was wondering. Maybe even if he doesn't learn much math, maybe he'll learn something about getting along with different personalities and making himself heard?

Given that follow up... I'd let him take the class for a little while longer. But that's me and you know there is a 50% chance that my DW would disagree

Sounds like he's getting something out of it (on multiple levels) and he enjoys it.

Mind you, you're 2 years ahead of us... so take it for what it's worth.

JB

I am out of the room about half the time because I have to be with DS4. The teacher is encouraging me to be in the room, though I can tell it's annoying her because I didn't let her just fly past stuff that didn't make sense, but asked questions (like about the array thing).

Now that I write that, I'm realizing that a big part of my problem is that I don't think she is actually a TEACHER who is TEACHING the class. I think she sees it as handing them stuff that they should already get. If there's a minor point they don't understand, she's willing to discuss it a second time. But come to think of it, I didn't see her really spending any energy on helping *anyone* over any hurdles to understanding.

Hmmm... That's a big realization for me. I'm not sure I want him in a class with someone who isn't actually teaching. No wonder the whole situation seemed so disturbing to me.

One 9yo has already dropped out--after 1 week! She said, "Well, he wasn't getting it anyway..." in the sense of "...so that's good that he's gone." I found that troubling. And she's doing the same thing with my son.

Hmmm...

well, that's a different kettle of fish. But i guess i will stick by my 1st answer, i.e., if your DS is getting something out of the "class" and enjoying it, can't hurt too much?

Although it's got to be irritating the heck out of you!

As you always say, go with your gut.

Indeed. The trouble is that my gut and DS7's gut are saying different things...

*sigh*

FWIW - leave the classroom altogether. You son is enjoying it.
Stay outside and read a book or something.
We tend to see our kids differently than others do, and that is OK. Because of that I beleive that it is easier sometimes not to see. What bothers us might not bother our kids, as is your case.

what is her background? Why is SHE the parent chosen to teach this particular co-op homeschool math class? Perhaps someone else could give it a go the next time round...

I'll have to discuss that possibility with her. She said she wants me there. In fact, my presence (as much as possible, given the circumstances) was initially one requirement for his being in the class. The goal was for me to keep an eye on how he was doing so I could pull him out if he became a problem. He's not a problem (not if you ignore him completely!), but she made it pretty clear that she thinks I should be in the room.

My thought was that I would be in the room, but wouldn't speak for him. I can help him understand, but he's on his own in terms of participating.

Good question. She volunteered. It's the nature of homeschooling, I'm afraid. Some co-ops are a lifesaver with great people, and some just aren't good fits.

My fear is that this one just isn't a good fit.

Good advice, Ania. It's hard to know when to do that! I've had a situation where I ignored by gut because I thought it better for the same reasons you're putting out there. When it worked it was awesome, the best thing I could've done.
The few times it didn't, it was an absolute disaster.


I totally saw that coming a mile away friend.

Perhaps it's an intellectual mismatch for him. Give you an example:

We were at the science museum watching an on floor demonstration. The "scientist" was demonstrating sound vibration. She had a big copper bowl with water. She would rub her fingertip around the rim of the bowl and you could hear the tone as well as see the sound vibration via water rippling. Pretty neat. She asked if anyone could explain what was happening. Youngest DD who was 5 raised her hand. She not so subtly looked around for an older person to answer(!) no one else had their hand up so she called on her. DD walked up and said: "Like my violin." The lady dismissed her and I said, Hold on, Honey, what about your violin. "you know, the strings, that's what they do when they make the sound". Pretty good for 5, yes? The demonstrator still didn't catch on to where we were going. I said: "What else? (you could tell she trying to get something else out). She pointed to the lady's finger, which she had dipped in the water before she rubbed the rim. "Like the rosin". Now the presenter was going to dismiss DD immediately because she didn't understand how "my violin" was actually a right answer. If I had not stepped in she would have thought she was wrong and knowing her probably would have felt bad.

I think at this age it's important to protect their confidence in their thought process, especially if it's creative.

I found out later the "scientist" was a hired improv actor..........

If I remember correctly, your DS was very good in the past with verbalizing to you when something wasn't working. I think it's important to take him seriously both when he's telling you something's wrong and also when he tells you something's fine. If it were me and it were a low risk situation I would trust his gut over mine. If he decides he was wrong, you can take him out later.

DS6 doesn't do any academic classes through our co-op. One of the leaders was very specific that she doesn't believe that GT kids exist (she's a former public school teacher). There are plenty of non-academic classes offered for him to get the fun, class experience without the stress of yet again being told that there's something wrong with him.

I've been in many situations where my kids said everything was fine, only to find out later, there were things going on that weren't ideal and they were bothered.

I give my kids a lot of lee way as well, and perhaps this isn't a situation where Kriston should pull her son, but at this age group the parents really have to be making these decisions. No matter how smart the children are, they don't have the life experience to always make the right call.

It's like asking a 3 year old why they did something they weren't suppposed to. They don't know WHY they did it, the just did it!

I think I'm with you, 'Neato. I just got off the phone with DH, and our ultimate problem is that she has made it clear in every possible way that she wants him out of the class...with the exception of actually saying, "I want him out," of course. That's a no-win situation there...

Add to that the fact that there are no pros at all in the column for this class, only cons, except, of course, that DS7 says he likes it. My analysis of his liking the class: I think he likes doing the living math stuff, and we can do that at home in a manner that works better for him. This class isn't necessary for that.

Honestly, the big reason I wanted him in the co-op is the social stuff, and now I fear the social is going to be bad social. After all, if the adult treats him as invisible, how will the kids treat him? So the social risk is very high. These are kids he's going to be spending time with for years if we keep homeschooling (as it looks like we will), and though they're nice kids, if they see an adult treating him so disrespectfully, then I fear they'll follow her lead. Not good.

Ultimately, it's a whole lot of inconvenience and potential bad stuff--educationally and socially--just so that he can play with pattern blocks. The risk/reward ratio makes it pretty clear to me that it's not sensible to stay.

Add to that the fact that this woman's kids are in JFLL with us, and I just think too much can go wrong in that relationship for us to stay. We can leave gracefully now. We might not be able to get out later without burning bridges.

I think ultimately what did it for me was "follow your gut" and realizing that she's not actually doing any teaching. It's just not a good class, and I don't feel good about having him in there.

I think you're right that I have to go back to my "No academic co-ops" rule, M&M. I was going against my instinct here, and I think it was wishful thinking. I hoped that since her kids are GT, too, she'd be more open and aware. But it didn't happen. Live and learn...

You saw it coming, huh, 'Neato? Why didn't you stop me!?! It's your job to save me from myself!

I'm in no position to give advice, since our DS is still only 4 and I have no experience with this kind of thing at all. But just from the outside I wonder whether it's a bit more difficult for your DS to learn to speak up for himself when you're there to speak up for him. I know you say the teacher says you should be in the classroom, and that's certainly some reason to attend. But you also say she clearly is annoyed (or perhaps, rather, intimidated?) by your presence. If your son really is enjoying it, and wants to keep going, maybe it would be easier and better for everyone if you just let him have a go on his own.

BB

Oops. Cross-posted again. Well, it seems like you've thought it out pretty carefully, so I won't add anything more.

BB

LOL! Because, when I see the light at the end of the tunnel, I'm never sure if it's the exit or the train! You know! LOL!

I second guess my gut feelings too much, gee, I gotta work on that!

Just to follow-up, since you were kind enough to post for me...

The first week, when I wasn't there, he said nothing, she said. (I couldn't attend--the sitter took him.) She said he was a lot more talkative with me there. When I left the room today to help DS4, she said he got quiet again.

I wonder if he was quiet or if she was just more able to ignore him, but I'll take her word for it...

BTW, I just told DS7 that we could do living math at home, and then we wouldn't go to the co-op. He said that was fine with him. He worried about missing the park play afterwards, but that won't go on much longer anyway.

Though if he really wants to go, maybe we'll put him in the way-too-easy ancient Egypt class that his DS4 is in. (DS7 also had this last year in a GT Saturday class, so it's even a way-too-easy re-run! *sigh*) If I want the social for him, maybe that's a better choice...

Still mulling that part over...It's a LOT of driving for very little social time!

P.S. BBD: You're ALWAYS in the position to give me advice! Please! Sensible minds should always feel free to chime in, regardless of how old your kids are.

Sounds like you made a good decision, Kriston.


Wait a minute.....is that supposed to stop us? must...comment...can't....help.....myself....don't....care....that....my...child....is....4

Neato, When they're gut feelings about MY situation, please send them my way! You can second-guess after you've told me that they exist!!!

That's a real good point, though, BBdad. The kids need opportunities to practice things like learning to speak up for themselves. The tough thing about these decisions I think is trying to figure out whether the situation involved is an age appropriate and realistic situation for the child to do so.

By the way Kriston describes this one, it seems as if the parent has made a decision prior that DS is too young. Some people can asess when they've made a wrong pre-assumption and change tack quickly. Some can't. I didn't get the impression that this woman was particularly self-aware in this aspect. Now this might be a great learning experience for say, a 13, 14 or 15 year old who has a little more social experience, for a variety of reasons. But 6,7,8,9,10? I'm not so sure. Perhaps it could have turned into an exceptionally positive and productive learning experience. Given the facts at hand though, I tend to think the risk outweighs the reward.

((shrug))

You go, girl! Advise away, please.

Hey, I don't discriminate based on age!!!

Okay, Kriston, next time. I do try to be careful when swinging my very strong opinions around. Sometimes I'm wrong! (many times)

Also, just cause your child is four doesn't mean you can't dish out advice. I think most of us are lookin for insight from intelligent people, not necessarily only from parents of kids the same ages as ours.

Ahhhhhh Kriston we crossposted:


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yup. In fact, every time I tried to discuss that I was seeing her ignoring DS7 when he did talk, that was when she interrupted me. She was not at all open to the idea that she had written him off.

You're definitely calling it as I see it, 'Neato. Her mind is closed. And DS7 just isn't going to go toe-to-toe with her yet. It's not in him now.

Will it be in him in 3 years, as she keeps insisting? Maybe. Though his personality isn't necessarily the sort to have him duking it out. If it's not annoying him, he might just let it happen, and if it is annoying him, he's just as likely to leave as he is to stand up for himself. DH and I both have very low thresholds for conflict, and we don't have any problem with deciding it isn't worth it (as we did with the public schools and we are doing now!).

Is that good, bad or indifferent? I don't know. But it is how we're wired. DS7 is wired the same way. I suspect he'd tolerate it until he couldn't, and then he'd either fight it or leave--and if he's like us, it's about 50-50 which one he'd pick.

From my perspective, the best aspect of this situation is the potential intellectual benefit (i.e., your DS's perception of challenge and the opportunities to work his brain to keep up with older kids). I'm not really seeing it as a great social opportunity -- not one worth an hour commute. However, if my DS6 had an opportunity like this I would take it despite the negative teacher attitude. But that's because DS6's school situation is very much lacking in challenging learning opportunities like this. He also has a competitive nature so the presence of the other kids would be motivating for him. If your son isn't benefitting intellectually from the older kids (forget socially - sounds like there's not much unstructured interaction with the other students), why not just provide living math at home...

Just reading this thread now but it looks as if your mind has already been made up.

IMO, it seems if the teacher was never going to accept him then you are better off spending your time doing something else. Very frustrating. IMO, some battles are worth fighting but from what you have posted--this one just not seem worth the effort. Your son can get a much better experience on the same curriculum at home with you. It might be different if this was something so unique and specialized that you needed the information from the teacher.

Yes, thanks, friends! I appreciate your perspective. I think we can do better than this. My gut is much happier since I followed it. Frankly, I was pretty upset about the whole thing. I just really think it's a bad environment.

On the bright side, it has given me a great insight into how to teach him. Living math it is! At least it was a good learning experience for me about curriculum and academic co-ops.

Interesting thread. I decided not to join any of the HS "academic" activities (local HS courses - we don't have a parent co-op) b/c DS was such a tough fit in school, it is hard to think a HS class would be any better. We're sticking to art, music and fun for group activities. Sorry the class didn't work out, Kriston. School is so teacher dependent, isn't it?

Oh, I just re-read this thread and realized that I didn't mention anywhere that the class today contained THREE kids. That might make a difference!

I realized that if you all thought she had 25 kids to deal with, then you might have a skewed view of the attention she COULD have been giving. But no! It was her daughter, one other girl about 10 or 11yo, and my son. That's all! For nearly 2 full hours!

Think she could have spent a wee bit of time listening to him, when it's just 3 kids?

Yeah, I think maybe...

P.S. We crossposted, Questions, but yes, classes don't get less teacher-dependent when you homeschool, I'm afraid...

Now that's pretty rude. Sayonara.

Indeed. I think it's the right call.

Ok, 3 kids only and not really paying attention and needing you in the class? The fact that there were only 3 kids in the class makes it much worse. I say if it doesn't feel right (whatever the reason is) walk away as long as DS is fine with it. That's the nice thing about hs. The kids do NOT have to be there.

Go ahead and use living math at home and tell him how great it is that you can do it anytime you want to and won't have to wait for the class I know nothing about living math but who knows it may be a perfect curriculum for him for this school year.

It might have been a learning experience for him, but it sounds to me that the "teacher" made her mind even before your son took the 1st class. If there are only 3 kids in the class one would expect her paying attention to all of the kids most of the time. I hear you on the 30 minute commute. I just got myself out of one Does it mean that you will withdraw DS4 as well or will DS7 try a different class?

I know, right? I can't believe I forgot that detail! Perhaps that tells you how upset I was about the whole thing...It's a pretty important detail!

There are only two classes offered at a time, though they will change every couple of months. This time it's Egypt and the math. Next time it's elections, I think, or the math. He signed up for chemistry instead of math one time, which probably won't be as good as he thinks it will be. And there's one other class I forget, but again, he chose the math.

It's always only two classes at a time, and one is always her math class.

So...meh. Worth the drive for the other class? I'm still debating...

3 kids?! No wonder she was so overwhelmed! Sounds like the right call in this case. And definitely let us know how living math goes. I'm very intrigued!

Wow, that really does change things! I would agree that if she was capable of ignoring him with only 2 other kids in the class then there's nothing for him to gain from it. And, really, how much of a peer group is 2 other kids?

Is there another co-op near you? Ours offers a huge variety of classes and splits the kids up into 4 groups (3-5yo, though they let DD2 participate, 6-11yo, young teens and older teens- the teen groups seem more fluid than the younger kids). I hope you guys can find a better fit!

Thanks for the vote of confidence. As it happens, I'm much more qualified to take advice than give it. But I try not to let that get in the way...

Interesting bit of info about the class-size. If the conditions were right then that might have been just the kind of situation for your DS to work on his speaking-up skills. Sadly, it sounds like the stars weren't aligned. Throw in the long commute, and I can certainly understand your decision.

BB

Well, the class is supposed to be in the neighborhood of 8 or 10 kids normally, but a lot of them were absent today. And there was the boy who dropped out. The group grows ever smaller...

No, this is the only co-op for kids his age that I know of. There are little ones here or there--three families in one neighborhood or some such thing. But nothing like what you're describing, M&M. Lots of classes here and there though. That worked for us last year, so it will probably do for this year.

I still can't believe I forgot to mention the number of kids. Sheesh. How addled am I, anyway!?! No wonder people were so much more positive about the experience than I felt. Sorry, gang!

Good on ya'! Not being an expert never kept me from spouting off! It shouldn't stop you either.

I'll check it out, kcab. Thanks for the tip. This site is all new to me, so I'll go explore.

Oh, and my dad became a woodworker once he retired. Just from a glance, it looks like I could ask him to make a lot of these for cheap. They're just dowels and tiles from what I can tell. Hmmm...

My my I leave this thread for a couple of hours and we're on page 5 of replies!

Now knowing that there are only 3 children in the class probably would change my recommendation too...

JB

Wow you're not kidding about the price, kcab! Youch! When it's in the thousands of dollars, my cheapskate brain just short-circuits!

The library kit is even pretty rich for my blood. It looks like individual tasks are just $15 each though.

I may use the freebies on the website as much as possible and then consider if we need more. I think you're 100% right that it's living math at its finest, with lots of good problem-solving material, and I really appreciate your drawing it to my attention. I'm not sure I'll spring for it, but I'm bookmarking it and keeping it in mind. Thanks a bunch!

***I just had a thought--this would be in Australian dollars, right? I have no clue what the exchange rate is, so this might not be as expensive as it looks to me...or given the weak dollar, it might be worse...

Ah! I thought the Maths300 was an online support deal. I didn't realize it has 50 lessons included. (I am reading that right, aren't I?)

I checked the conversion and that means it's only $106 American dollars for the 50 online lessons, assuming I'm not misreading. That's much more do-able.

P.S. Reasons I shy away from packaged curriculum: I never understand what's included. If I'm not smart enough to read the website, maybe I shouldn't be using the curriculum, eh? (Alternate reading: if the website is confusing, how will the curriculum be? )

Yes, I read it as you did. Access to the 50 lessons is all I would need. I can print it if I need it, and for the manipulatives, I really think we can make them/make do.

I will call them. It sounds like it might be a nice addition to our math plans for the year.

If I get it and get confused, I'll PM you for advice!

A happy bit of follow-up:

I was griping to a good friend (local) about the co-op and how DS7 really liked the concept of the class, if not the execution. She's homeschooling her 9yo HG (my best guess) DS, and we got together at least weekly last year for social time. We needed it as much as the boys did!

She sympathized with me about the situation, and then she said, "Why don't we do some math and science stuff together? The boys may not be at exactly the same place, but we work on a spiral curriculum anyway, so it's okay if they're at different places on the spiral. And then afterward the boys can play together."

Heaven! She's a dear friend, DS7 loves her son and shares similar interests, and they'll have a great time working together. She and I have similar approaches, too, so I'm not worried about the teaching issue. We're a good fit. Really, it's genius!

So it's not a full-fledged co-op, but it's a very good set-up with a very good friend. I'm thrilled!

Sometimes life has a way of working out...

Yay! That sounds like a wonderful solution, Kriston!

Wow! Two pieces of good news in a row. We're on a roll today, people.

Val

Thanks, guys! And though I'm not interested in adding more kids this year, it seems like it might be something to build on...selectively.

I think maybe a by-invitation group might be a nice set-up in the future. The co-op we were in was really a cattle call for anyone and everyone, and having one person in charge instead of following the traditional co-op form, with shared duties and team-teaching, made for a pretty unhealthy situation, I think. Absolute power corrupts absolutely...

I think the way to do an academic co-op with HG+ kids is to start one yourself and hand-select the kids and parents for fit. Much more effective!

We just found this local HG+ homeschool co-op and it's very word of mouth. They don't require IQ scores or anything like that but suggest that your child should be working at least 3 years ahead of grade level. If you get "in", they have a probationary period. They really don't want kids that don't want to learn. I think it's a great model!

I'm actually a little nervous about that when it comes to DS7. I think last year he got very turned off by classroom environments and very turned on to being a class clown. Although, it may be a whole different story in a room full of engaged GT kids with highly interesting classes!

Ooops - I missed the first post! That sounds like a great set up! Sometimes things work out for the best.

Sounds like a perfect solution Kriston, that's great!

I'm happy this will work out for DS and you!

Kimck, I didn't read back far enough to see your post, that sounds fantastic!!!!! I wouldn't worry I bet it will work out great for you guys. When DD8 is in a really good environment like that she really pulls it out. Totally different picture of the child than if you peeked in on her class at school.

Today she told me she wasn't going to take ISAT's this year because they are "totally boring and useless". Not a good attitude I am seeing here!

Well, it isn't perfect, exactly...

I'd like him to spend time with a group of kids more regularly. The appeal of the co-op was the group social activity, no doubt about it. But he does have Cub Scouts, soccer, and some other homeschool activities, plus a bigger cohort of buddies in our neighborhood after school (I LOVE our open back fence!), so hopefully that need will be met. We did fine with it last year.

And certainly, under the circumstances, this math meeting is DEFINITELY the better choice. Oh, SO much better! But it isn't doing what I wanted the co-op for. So that's a shame.

<shrug> Whatcha gonna do?

I'm still thrilled to be out of the co-op, regardless!

Chiming in late...

Kriston,

I absolutely would pull him out, and I am glad that you already have reached that decision. In my opinion, keeping him in the class would be giving him the wrong impression. One of the most beautiful things about homeschooling is that you are free to change tack if things are not going well. I don't care if he was learning, he was also aware that this woman did not respect him. He's far too young to have to shut up and deal when there is an easy way to get out of the class. He seemed a very sensitive young man when I met him, and I hate to think of that "teacher" crushing his spirit or making him feel that he is inferior. Grrr!

Thanks, Lorel. I appreciate the moral support, not to mention the kind words about my DS. He seems like an awfully nice guy to me, but I'm more than a little biased.

What she's been doing is tantamount to kicking a puppy. It's cruel, unnecessary, and pointless.

Let's pretend that ds was actually in over his head. Would that have made her actions any less heinous? I don't think so. There is no justification for ignoring a child in your care. It doesn't matter if she overlooked his intellect- she still treated him very poorly.

I taught a class with a child in over his head, and I did not ignore him, ridicule him, or treat him as an inferior human being. That's just not productive or helpful in any respect.

That's sure what it felt like.

I'm not convinced she's aware of what she's doing--at least that's the more charitable reading of her actions, so it's how I'll choose to view it. I can't imagine someone would purposefully treat a 7yo the way she did, and right in front of his mom, too! What kind of despicable person would she have to be, you know? No, I'll assume she just couldn't recognize her own bias or how it was affecting her actions.

But regardless of her intentions, we wind up at the same place.

Thanks, Lorel. I really appreciate it!

I do think sometimes people are just in their own bubble and don't think. They aren't necessarily being intentionally malicious, but they just have no clue how they look from the outside. At least that's what gets me through the day when it comes to situations like this!

And to a point, I agree with this. That's why I initially agreed with her terms that she not slow down the class for him.

It's harder to see that line of thinking making sense when there are only 3 kids in the class though...Ignoring a full third of your students is pretty irresponsible!

Kriston, that's a good news about the class with your friend. It's a good start and you may find other gt kids who will fit right in later on. Combination of learning and a playdate sounds great.

Master of None sorry to hear about your experience. There is no excuse for being repeatedly mean to a child.