So, how do you talk about your gifted child to other parents and acquaintances? I became acutely aware of the different attitudes that exist in response to hearing about different kid's accomplishments. Today, at a birthday party, one parent went on and on about her son's great baseball game that morning...he was the big scorer and he is very talented. I thought I could also share a little about my own child's latest academic accomplishment. The sports story was well received and everyone apparently welcomed hearing more about it . the academic story was initially met with a decent reception but then the "pushing" questions started. "you must have to stand over him to get him to study so much to do so well". So, how do you talk about you're gifted child with others? I'm tired of feeling like I have to keep everything on the down low.

So athletic excellence is an acceptable discussion topic but academic excellence is dismissed (it must be because you push him so hard). Yup. Seems prevelant throughout our society.

Funny, but I don't go into details even with other parents of gifted children. Except here where it feels supportive. (There are a couple of my close friends I'm sure I could talk about this with, but really, it's still uncomfortable.)

I don't go into details either. I just wondered, at what point in American history, did it become unacceptable to speak about academic gifts and accomplishments? I think this is an American thing and I think it's a recent thing.

Yes, and in Genius Denied it touches on how a large portion of America has come to distrust (paraphrasing here as I've only just purchased the book) the "intellectual elite."

That sadly does not surprise me at all and is what I have found to be the case. Unfortunately now I just don't talk about dd and what she is doing except to a few people who I know are supportive. Luckily I have 2 neighbors and good friends who fall into that category, but before I found them, I just kept quiet. It hurt not being able to share when I was so proud of something dd had done, taught herself, accomplished, etc. Or society is just adverse to hearing about kids who are ahead academically, sport it's a-okay, but anything else, you as a parent must be lying, bragging, and pushing and it absolutely can not be true. Sigh and HUGS

As long as sports will have such huge role in schools in the USA, academics and knowledge will always come in second if at all. I've mentioned before that I grew up in central Europe and schools there had nothing to do with sports, other than PE classes twice a week and academics was everything. Especially since high schools are very selective. Kids play sports for fun but school and what they know always comes first over there. I don't think my parents ever understood me when I was a child but they knew I was gifted and never had to hide that from anyone. Living in the States now I couldn't dare to tell anyone that my just turned 3-year old loves reading through the 3rd grade word list! They would think I'm a monster and not a devoted mom

I save those comments for two friends and my parents. The email is generally titled, "because I can't tell anyone else."

We are threading a small needle, though, as DD is internalizing this. She got an award for a math contest, and failed to tell anyone. We talked about who do you tell about things like this. We had to explain it was a big deal, of the degree that had it been sports, her picture with her and the other awardees would have been in the local paper. Tell your teacher, principal (award was from another school), and *your parents*. Yeah, skip your friends, though. ;(

I'm going to play the bad guy here and say that I think bragging is often sort of unattractive no matter what the accomplishment is. Of course, with really close friends, it's nice to be able to share things sometimes, but I'd be turned off by someone who was rattling on about her child's athletic prowess *and* by someone who was talking up her child's smarts, in a casual social environment.

My theory about this as well as related issues (such as why swimming classes are sorted by ability whereas academic classes are sorted by age) is that deep down, people understand that it's the academic/intellectual stuff that really matters and that the sports stuff is just fluff. Also there is a belief in our society that intelligence is fixed, but by working really hard at a sport, anyone can be great.

I totally agree with you all.

When my DD won the academic award, I made sure the school and the distrcict know. She got award from the district and the school but only a few people actually acknowledged it.

Actually it was a good thing. It makes parents who care about education closer to you and shun the other parents away. That's the way we like it anyway. I think we are all very proud of our kids. It's a thin line between keeping everyone informed and bragging. The tolerance for sports is high but anything you talk about academic success will sound like bragging.

You need to pick your audience unfortunately. The best way probably is to invite your friends over and the house is filled with your DC's awards. It bound to start questions about those awards

Perhaps it's just the group of people I'm around, but we often brag about how smart our kids are to each other. I suppose it's mostly just luck, but I'm friends with two women (we were all pregnant at the same time) and our 3 boys (all 9, 3rd grade) are all amazing readers! We often chat with each other about what books to get them, about how the school is basically failing to teach them anything when it comes to english... Their kids are also good at math.. I don't think they've had their 2 tested, though.

(What's extra funny is all 3 of us happened to get pregnant with our 2nd at the same time and all 3 of the younger kids are like crazy people, and couldn't give two craps about school work, lol.)

i only recently realized how i've spent 5 years minimizing everything - generally characterizing DD5 as "interesting & fun" - because it neatly sidesteps the issue.

up until this year, i did have one (childless) friend that was safe, but when we recently had to go the psychologist route to figure out why the kid was wanting to quit kindergarten, the conversation with my friend shut down faster than you can say "gifted." it was pretty shocking to hear my best friend of 35 years tell me that my kid "might have been slightly ahead of the curve for years, but now you're finally seeing that they all even out in the end." ha - i guess it wasn't a safe conversation after all!

so now it's just my mum and my husband's parents who hear the real stories: and as they frequently say... they understand, because they raised us. everyone else gets the old chestnut, "she's quite an interesting person." which is quite good, because it leaves the door open for the other parent to chime in, "they all are, aren't they?" which is quite true - even if they don't all even out in the end.

school conversations really are the worst - i spent all of this year feeling like i'd fallen into the Twilight Zone. the silver lining is that when it was time to cut our losses, i was able to simply describe the litany of problems to each school... you know, by way of giving the principal the chance to say "no thanks" up front. i heard a few of those, but we settled on the one who said, "oh, she's clearly gifted - we love that here." i didn't have to say a thing... - he just had a plan, ready to go.

Lol!

I'm going to go out on a limb here and admit I'm guilty of misunderstanding another parent's situation. Her child could read in preschool and is subject advanced twice in math and I assumed his advancement was a product of the many worksheets she made him do before K, and the strict regimen of Latin and Chinese and music, etc. I didn't judge her in a negative way, just made the assumption that she was simply getting results due to pushing the child to work harder.

Even after having an older son who was identified as gifted and then my youngest. I should have known better. I do now.

Or complicated, multi-layered, intense, sensitive, creative, distracted, high maintenance, energetic, etc etc. These are all words I've used with minimal negative impact.

Oh yes, sensitive and intense, are descriptions that fit our ds, and however true, they're are often met with mild disapproval.

You know, there are children who are hot-housed in sports, too. Maybe next time the other parents are jumping on you for making your child do worksheets, you could turn it around on them... why are they making their child run laps, and practice drills for hours on end, when they should be playing with their friends?

And then, once the defenses come rolling in:

- "It's what he likes to do"
- "We couldn't stop him if we tried."

Then you say... "Exactly."

I have wonderfully supportive friends and family who are fascinated and amazed by my eldest. Some of his talents are kind of like party tricks, and they all think it's pretty cool. So I definitely post many things about my son's achievements on Facebook. I also want my son to feel proud of himself; and so he should because he is pretty amazing

However, with acquaintances and strangers I am less forthcoming. Some people can get really funny, and take it less as "my kid is smart", and more as "your kid is stupid". I wait until they ask questions, if they ever, and I answer honestly. I am not going to act like being gifted is bad and shameful.

I agree with this, actually. And while to some degree American society is anti-intellectual, a study just came out showing that Americans are extremely attached to the idea that their kids are smart--far more so than parents in other nations.

Well if someone has met DS, then I don't have a lot to explain. If they haven't, then I don't really need to share.

Similar conversations for me go like this:

Them: "My son is a star in baseball."

Me: "That's great, I bet he gets lots of touchdowns. We're hoping that DS7 learns to catch this year. Maybe if I could ever drag him away from his algebra videos, we could spend more time practicing catching."

I am interested in seeing this study.

Interesting. I believe it.

Hi eastcoast,
Just wanted to say that I don't believe it's just an American thing. I am from Germany and there is such a strong "anti-elitism" that a lot of parents of gifted kids actively try to hide their kids' accomplishments ... and nature, I guess. Most Germans I know believe if a child shows any interest in and aptitude for academics before they're 6 that you must be horrible parent who pushes the poor child into something that is completely against the child's nature. I have stopped talking to my brother about anything academic/school because I was met with just plain hostility.
Very sad. Who do we get to talk to? Sometimes you want to ask advice or commiserate about something that is not working. But really message boards such as this and the one friend I have who also has gifted kids are about the only areas where I feel safe.
Stef

I like that. I might try sometimes.

I agree with ultramarina about the bragging. It always seems a bit off to me, no matter what's the topic.
When reading most of the posts, though, it seems to have turned into a discussion of people not being able to say anything (at least that is what I am feeling). I don't feel the need to tell people about my son's accomplishments. But I'd love to be able not to have to lie when others ask about school. So when one of my German friends says "Oh, he'll be going to first grade next year" I would love to just say "We're trying to figure out what to do for school as he doesn't quite fit in" (which is what I do say usually) but then if they get irritated as most German's get at the thought of somebody not going the traditional BM route (homeschooling is illegal in Germany) I would love for it to be ok to just say matter-of-factly that he is finishing 3rd grade in most subjects now at age 4 and that it really wouldn't be a good fit to send him to learn his letters and counting when he is 6. Without being accused of hothousing and forcing academics on a pure, innocent child who would never ever be interested in such things out of their won volition (just spend a day with him and you'll know all about his love for learning and how he drives us - not the other way around). For me that is all it is.
I would of course never lie in front of my son as I don't want him to feel like he should be ashamed or there is anything wrong with how he learns. I'd like him to just feel normal. So I guess as soon as he's 6 I might have to rethink my approach to the Germans - here is Canada at least most people accept homeschooling and you don't have to explain the why.
Cheers,
Stef

http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...escribe-their-children-in-charts/274955/

Wow! "Happy" didn't even make the American chart.

I see communication as an exercise in reciprocity. E.g If I listen supportively (and, usually, enthusiastically!) to you tell me about Johnny's hockey hat trick, then I expect you to listen to me tell you about my son. I'm usually quite effusive about other people's children's accomplishments, and I find this attitude is beautifully contagious.

That being said, I have no problem pointing out when that reciprocity is breached by the (very) occasional bad apple. This may not make me friends, but I don't really care. It's my job to be a loving, supportive parent, not Johnny's mom's "BFF". Maybe I'm more blunt than the average forum member, but I don't feel it's my responsibility to manage someone's inferiority complex if I'm making a disclosure that a reasonable person would find acceptable, even interesting

ETA: I realize that I may temper this position if my son ultimately attends PS, lest he become a pariah because of his zealot mother.

I try to keep myself grounded, or centered. Sports are a fun past-time, nothing more, really. Intelligence is not the be-all, end-all, either. Academic achievement is certainly not. Precocity does not mean all that much in the end. Children develop at different rates, have different interests, have different amazing gifts to offer the world. I have found if I keep all of this in perspective I have no problems in these conversations. Personally, I would not bring DD's reading or math skills up in a conversation, but if it comes up, I do not feel uncomfortable, and it has always been well-recieved. It is just matter-of-fact.

Hee hee. I'm not into sports, but even I would suggest altering this comment somewhat.

Well said.

I couldn't decide if it was intentional or not!

ITA. I also would add one thing - I've found that the easiest way to have "easy" conversations with other parents is to be genuinely interested and excited about their children.

I also think there are two types of conversation we're talking about here, which are very different. One is focusing on sharing joy (or bragging rights) in our children's accomplishments, the other is being able to talk about issues our high-IQ kids face in school etc - the types of things that we as parents talk about with other parents (like we do here).

Re the type of conversation which falls under "sharing the joy" - I'm not sure of the age of the OP's child or the age of the other children at the birthday party, but fwiw I've found that I am around less bragging by other parents the older my children get. When my kids were in preschool and early elementary I heard a lot of what I'd categorize as parents who were living vicariously through their children - I don't mean that in a bad way, but the achievements of their children made them very proud, and some parents liked to boast/brag about those things which made them (parents) proud. This wasn't just true of sports, but of academics and other things too. For instance, one of my children is really into athletics - and for every team or group she was a part of when she was starting out, there was inevitably at least 1-2 parents who were convinced their child was headed to the Olympics or whatever, or was simply outspoken about how wonderful their child was. In early elementary school, quite a large number of the parents I talked to on the playground etc were really focused on getting their children id'd as gifted and getting enrichment. As my children got older, and as all the kids started finding their own passions and strengths etc as well as started developing more of their own individuality and going through those stages that all kids go through where they gradually become more and more independent of their parents, a lot of those conversations where parents were feeling proud by bragging about their kids faded away. And another thing happened too - I found that as my own kids began to achieve their own set of things to be proud of - parents who cared about them started complementing *them* (my kids). My ds recently received an academic award, and he absolutely was complemented quite a bit, other parents of other kids we know were very proud of him (for him).

polarbear

When family members or friends bragged about their kid's sports accomplishments, I talked about what my son was learning at home and what he was doing in musical theater.

This has been a really hard year for my son because a mild physical disability got worse. He had to quit musical theater because of the pain. He had so many medical appointments and is scheduled for surgery and we just could not focus on academics because of the anxiety over all of this, so we have been unschooling this year. Instead of being supportive, family members are talking about the sports accomplishments in front of my son who they know has been told he has to limit physical activities the rest of his life. They tell us how their kids are doing both the sports and making A's and then they ask what my child is doing. We occasionally see people we knew when my son was in scouts. He had to quit that too because of the disability. They don't know what to say to us.

I guess we don't have any real friends and I will stay away from my extended family for my mental health, so I guess I don't have this problem now.

This is pretty much how I handle things, too. I am genuinely interested in other people if I'm talking to them. So of course, right?

If they are turned off by me being honest in that reciprocity, then I don't feel that I've really lost much, since they probably are not the kind of people that I want ongoing contact with to start with. I really loathe that competitive parenting thing. With every fiber of my being, basically.

I'm well aware of my DD's shortcomings-- she doesn't have to be "best" at anything in particular. I'd like for her to care about personal excellence, and it makes me happy when she is proud of her OWN accomplishments... and I'm proud when she works hard to make something happen for herself. Of course I share that kind of thing. "My kid got her letter from NMSC the other day-- she scored in the top 50K on the PSAT!"

"She landed a competitive internship that she really wanted! I'm thrilled for her!"

"She's loving AP Physics now that she's past mechanics-- I'm so happy that she's found something that really lights her up like that."

"She is working with her older dog at Novice level obedience now and they are doing SO well. I hope that she continues to do Freestyle with the dog, too. They are such hams for a crowd!"


That kind of thing. It isn't that I avoid discussions of academics-- I just try to avoid direct one-upsmanship. THAT is offensive no matter who is doing it.

OK, I admit, it's a bit of chicanery and some people see it for that and smile and others perhaps pity me. But in either case, it defines a conversation boundary. I won't hear a play-by-play of their kid's game; I won't have to dodge discussions of what happened in some sport on TV Sunday night, etc.

Then we can safely discuss the weather, or if they're interested I can tell them how yesterday DS was finally able to use polymerization to summon his five headed dragon and was crushing me until he accidentally attacked my little penguin soldier.

Yes.

DD recently had the experience of sharing her official 'portfolio' for an activity with others-- because they needed the guidance on how to do that kind of recordkeeping, basically.


Even the one friend there who knew that my DD is +3y accelerated and "very smart" was awestruck by her GPA. DD was clearly uncomfortable about it-- I gather that it had made her feel very awkward among that group of kids who are mostly mediocre students (though the one friend is a pretty smart cookie herself-- thus the awestruck excalamation over it, I suspect). Basically, my DD, who is a year younger than this friend, is kicking butt and taking names in the same (and harder) classes that her OLDER BROTHER is taking and working hard-hard-hard at for slightly less stellar grades.

DD almost treated it as though she had done something shameful-- by making her friend feel awkward.

Dear HK, some of the achievements you mentioned above are not like the others, and you know it. Some parents, even those who do not know who Charles Murray is, have the following thoughts (deliberately exaggerated) when you talk:

High PSAT = high IQ. Liking physics = high IQ. High IQ = success. My child got a low PSAT score and does not like physics. Low IQ = failure.

(The equal sign really means "has a positive correlation with".)

The GPA is tough. I lead a CV/resume writing workshop for our students every summer. I have them write their GPA as X.XX, highlight it, and then have them peer edit. After the peer editing process, I have them fill in the GPA.

I just got a bunch of pictures from DD's teacher of kids in the class, and I was struck with another thing -- several kids are wearing shirt and jackets from the elite soccer and baseball teams in town. DD won't wear a t-shirt from a summer camp she went to. No where on the shirt does it say who the audience was for the camp, but she won't/can't wear it because kids would ask her about it.

It's interesting the different choices we make. I would not share the first, but I would share the second two, IF someone asked about my child. To me, the first is more like talking up DD's gorgeous eyes; the PSAT is enough of an aptitude test that mentioning scores would feel not quite right for me personally. But the second is something well-earned and the third is an interest that she is excited about, so totally fair game in my book.

I will add that I do not hang out with a braggy group. Some of my friends' kids are pretty athletic, I think, but in most cases I am unclear what the actual level of skill is because they aren't really talking about it. No one EVER brags to me about academics and their kid, although I think my child sort of holds the "nerd" title in my group of friends. You know, the only thing I see people crowing about is the # of 5Ks their kids run, their kids wanting to run with them, etc. Every once in a while people get excited about a book their kid is reading, I guess.

Yeah-- I would share any of those things, but I would not share any of them with EVERYONE I know.

If that makes sense. LOL. The thing with the PSAT scores probably feels more artificial/odd to parents of younger kids because it's not part of the regular parenting landscape for y'all-- yet.

But in our group of friends/acquaintances who have high school aged kids? That kind of conversation is quite normative. Where are kids are looking at college, what majors, scholarship stuff, SAT/ACT scores, etc. ALL of that is common in conversations about kids. Sports and internships, etc.

While there is truth to the notion that test scores are about aptitude, believe me, even the most capable kids want to do their best on stuff they get no second chances on. So even a kid like mine takes the time to run through a few practice tests and tweak her approach on anything that seems to be any kind of systemic problem. So there is hard work/personal effort involved. It's more than eye color... it's also about the skilful selection of clothing and accessories that makes the most of what you have.

It makes more sense when you get there.

What I don't do-- other than between DH and myself-- is tack on the smarmy, insufferable "and remember, she's only thirteen!! " with or without the fist pump, that's just rude. LOL. Besides, that part of things IS about innate development, not anything that's she has 'earned' through her own hard work or ours, YK? That one really is like eye color or physical attractiveness relative to some cultural ideal.

A very small fraction of the population earns a living through sports or music, but for many people, the level they reach in the occupational hierarchy is limited by IQ, so of course parents are more sensitive to even indirect information about the IQ of other children.

I really do not think this is true, nor do I believe most parents are sensitive to this. And, it very well could by a sport or fine art that becomes a child's passion that drives their academic success later. That is important, too. And, a child with a higher IQ could be lacking this.

I think that if one believes that the higher the IQ of a child the more successful in life they will be (i.e. their occupation,) then I bet that comes across in the way one interacts with other parents. Maybe they are sensitive to that.

Exactly, though this is TOTALLY what DS' grandparents and extended family do when we get together as a family. A 4:1 grandparent to only grandbaby ratio makes it inevitable...

Or any of the following:

Competence
Experience
Age
Geography
Phase of the economic cycle
Contemporaneous fiscal policy
SES
Family environment
Presence of mentors
Level and field of education
Attractiveness
Who they know
Like-ability
Height
Interest
Enthusiasm

The list goes on...

I respectfully request that we not let this conversation devolve into a defence of the argument that life is a deterministic function of IQ, because that sort of reasoning does little justice to this forum and has limited basis in reality.

Yes, arrogance/superiority pretty much never comes across as "friendly and approachable." I know that I don't like it either, even if other parents believe that it destines my child for "greatness." Honestly, the few times that someone has called my DD out like that, she and I both have just cringed. I don't like the implication in terms of placing very specific (maybe unrealistic?) external expectations on her young shoulders, and she doesn't like being held up as a "golden child" to her peers.

Psychological Science, a leading psychology journal, will soon publish an article finding that the highly gifted (as identified by the SET) are disproportionately likely to "rise to the top". People are sensitive about IQ because they rightly sense that it matters a lot.

http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2013/03/25/0956797612457784.full.pdf
Who Rises to the Top? Early Indicators
Harrison J. Kell, David Lubinski, and Camilla P. Benbow
Vanderbilt University
Abstract
Youth identified before age 13 (N = 320) as having profound mathematical or verbal reasoning abilities (top 1 in
10,000) were tracked for nearly three decades. Their awards and creative accomplishments by age 38, in combination
with specific details about their occupational responsibilities, illuminate the magnitude of their contribution and
professional stature. Many have been entrusted with obligations and resources for making critical decisions about
individual and organizational well-being. Their leadership positions in business, health care, law, the professoriate,
and STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) suggest that many are outstanding creators of modern
culture, constituting a precious human-capital resource. Identifying truly profound human potential, and forecasting
differential development within such populations, requires assessing multiple cognitive abilities and using atypical
measurement procedures. This study illustrates how ultimate criteria may be aggregated and longitudinally sequenced
to validate such measures.
Keywords
cognitive abilities, creativity, human capital, intelligence, profoundly gifted, STEM

When I'm in a social situation and a parent talks about their child's achievement, I smile and ask leading questions to keep them talking about that child. Invariably, I've found most don't ask me much because they are so busy talking up their child. When someone does ask, like others here have said, I use words like "busy", "loves to learn", "sensitive", etc. I don't give specifics. I learned not to do that when DS was three and reading random signs in the office of secretary at our insurance agent. She said, "You did that to him?!" in response to my sharing he knew all his letters and could count past 75 at two.

Since then, the only people (IRL) I've brought up my son's abilities with are his grandparents and his school, past and present, for the proper placement.

The grandparents are varying degrees of enthusiastic, and I share accordingly. The school people are on a need-to-know basis and I find they've generally been either incredulous, excited, subdued or a bit hostile. The hostility of his current teacher surprised me. Call me naive, but I really thought a teacher, of all people, wouldn't hold it against us for our son doing well.

I mostly talk to my few good friends who also have gifted kids. I can relate, my SIL is always posting on FB about her kids athletic achievements. But I feel uncomfortable stating my sons "gifts". Partly because I don't have anything particular to hang a hat on. DS14 doesn't participate in any academic competitions & doesn't get "perfect" grades.

The worst is having our child's teacher, after hearing DS already knows all of the required sight words as well as 1st & 2nd & 3rd grades etc, and being looked at with skepticism~ and a blank dismissive nod. then later being told to not push DS etc, let him be a kid, etc... and that yes, the "review" will be good for DS, and give the rest of the class time to catch up. WOW. ok.

It never fails to surprise me how the teacher we put so much trust in to teach our kids for 6hrs each day, and guide them through social situations etc etc--- really fails.

Somehow having other parents be skeptical? It doesn't bother me so much as having a teacher be that way. You'd think the TEACHER would be the child's ally and encourage that love of learning... guess sometimes it doesn't pay to think, huh?

I've been faced with this a lot lately because we have been trying to sell our house and the choice of city for our new home relates to the school we applied to get our son into. The house buying/selling has been a saga for the last year so people at work have asked me about it. Having to explain we are trying to get our son into the gifted school leaves me feeling like I kind of have to "prove" that he really does qualify to go there and I'm not just a crazy parent pushing her kid.

In other situations, I try not to give too many specifics about what he does if I can help it. Always depends on the audience as others have said. The most tiptoeing has to be done around parents with kids of a similar age. I usually go for the angle of how much of a challenge it is and it's not a cakewalk having a GT kid.