DH got really mad after today he found out , our DS was sent to the principal office , because of the note that DH wrote on the private behavior chart that was sent home yesterday .

On the behavior chart there was a note from PE teacher saying that DS pushed another boy . According to DS the boy was the one pushing first and he just pushed back , and the teacher called them and asked them , but chose to believe the other boy and DS had to sit out the whole time , while the other boy didn't get any consequences . So DH sent a note to school , asking why the other boy didn't get any consequences since it was also him doing the pushing ?

And another note from lunch , about throwing leftover piece of bread into the trash can , DS missed and picked up the food and threw it in the can , but he was noted " no self discipline "
So DH sent a note about that too , and said what's the big deal about this ?

This morning , the teacher saw the note and sent DS to principal , principal then started telling DS that he needs to own up and not acting like he didn't do anything wrong . DS knows he did something wrong by pushing the boy back but he just didn't think it's fair that he got punished and the other boy didn't . The principal said how do you know the other boy didn't get punished ? DS said Because he had to sit out the whole time and the other boy didn't . Then both the principal and assistant principal said to our DS " well it's up to you whether we should keep on going with that green folder ( private behavior chart ) , or you can just throw it away "

At this point i feel like these 2 adults are bullying DS by saying stuff like that .

Also they called this morning , to have a meeting tomorrow afternoon with the them ( principal , assistant principal and counselor ) . DS just had the testing yesterday done at school . But DH is really mad right now because of DS shouldn't be getting scolded for the note that he sent .

DH already had paper ready since last week , to bring up everything that they need to provide for DS and what might work and might not work ( we learned this from our meeting with the pyschologist ) . We went to pyschiatrist and was told nothing , DS just bored , no mood disorder . And also went to a therapist / pyschologist last week , also was told that the teacher just dislikes DS , she could tell from all comments in the communication card . It's not like we're not trying to have DS evaluated , which we did , and both professional said there is nothing wrong with DS .

The school has created all these problems for DS .. and making him like he's a monster .

Do you think it's really worth still to talk with the school ? DH is furious right now and he said he's thinking to talk to the superintendent about how poorly the school is handling this situation .

can't blame you for wanting to pull him out. I'd be upset too! We had couple incidents when my stepson was in elementary school. He sure wasn't an angel and school wasn't his thing but he was never the kid that would get into any fights, not to mention start one. He ended up expelled for a week for "fighting" on the school grounds after school ... when the real story was that an older and much bigger kid smacked him and provoke him (there WERE witnesses) and my stepson defended himself (one punch back at which point a teacher got there. Thankfully since he'd had no chance against the bigger boy). The result was, our son expelled and the other boy didn't get any punishment. The school defended that decision by the fact that the boy was about to move to another city / school in a week or two. Whereas our kid was expelled for behavior and fighting. This was just a tip of the iceberg at which point his mom agreed to him moving in with us and he's lived with us ever since. This was 8 years ago. He never once had "behavior" problems in any of the schools after that to this day. He always had class participation issues and overall keeping his grades up problems but that was whole another story (suspected ADHD).

So, I can certainly see why your son would be upset with the way things were handled. As for throwing trash, I guess I can see why they wouldn't like it (imagine every kid doing this) on the other hand, I don't see that as a reason to send notes home and such. I mean ... who has not done this thing any chance we got as kids? lol

Is it possible to transfer him to another school? Sometimes an entire change of scenery is needed.

Wow. Those incidents with your son seem so trivial. I find it hard to believe the principal doesn't have anything better to do than police a kid who misses when he throws leftover food in the trash.

If you have other options for your son, I think I would consider moving him right away. It doesn't seem like the adults in this situation are prepared to help turn things around. And even if they suddenly apologized and said they were over-reacting, would you really trust them to do the right thing for your son?

Thanks for the replies ,

Master of none ,
I can understand if the food was messy of course i wouldn't be too happy to see someone throwing it from distance away . But it was just a tiny piece of bread , the leftover from chicken sandwich so i know it wasn't that messy .

Our DS was not like this before we enrolled him in this school , yes he's no angel , but he's not a trouble maker like they make him to be . Not to mention thinking maybe we should medicate our perfectly fine DS .

We did have him evaluated , in fact we gave the school the letter that the pyschiatrist gave to us that she did an evaluation on DS and found that DS didn't have any mood disorder , DS probably will benefit on getting an IQ test , and as far as him being argumentative , maybe he can work with the therapist . As a result , the school wanted him to be evaluated by the school's therapist that specialized in autism children . We refused and we said we'll go our own way to have him seeing therapist . We did couple of weeks ago , that's when the therapist said that the teacher doesn't like our DS , she can tell from the nitpicking the teacher wrote on the communication cards daily . From dissambeling pencil , to spinning ruler , to talking during silent lunch . But seriously though , do you blame him ? if he's done with his job within 15 minutes and having to wait for another 30 minutes not doing anything but reading ?? That's the only thing that they allow DS to do .. i know he loves reading but there is only so much reading one can do .. and sometimes you don't feel like reading all the time either , so there goes him assembling something from 2 mechanical pencils , spinning rulers , being creative creating a person from a pencil and a paper .. but those get him in trouble .

The pyschologist does mention that the school's rules are being ridiculous , and the teacher needs to stop nitpicking every little thing he does , because he started to feel like everything he does is wrong , and people always choose other student over him , he already feels different as it is , but with the school doing all sort of this stuff , it just makes him feel even worse . He wonders why people just don't understand him , why does his teacher likes yelling at him so much .

He has to stay in this school til 4th grade . I've talked with counselor couple months ago , she said she'll work with DS but within these 2 months , she only saw him 2 times !! what good does a counselor do then if she only gets to see him 2 times ?

The private behavior chart does concentrating on the positive behavior but the therapist said things like :
- use time and material wisely <-- this sort of thing is too vague , they need to say what it really is , and being bright kid as he is .. he can manipulate words and and being very technical if you don't say it clearly .

-be respectful to adults and peers <-- this was also considered vague by the therapist , she said it's better if the school said " use kind words , nice words to each other , using flat tone "

And about the note , yes they should have called DH or even me .. to explain things . DS did admit he push and he did wrong , but he found it's unfair that he got punished and the other boy didn't , it's not like he didn't admit he was also wrong . I don't know why the school just don't get this .

Yes , the pyschologist that we went to the last time , are also able to advocate for our child . We're about to have a meeting with the school this afternoon , and we think if nothing changed , we're going to have the pyschologist to come to the school and talk with them also .

And i surely hope he gets a better teacher next year , last year he had an awesome teacher , this teacher was 100% different than the current teacher . He never gets yelled at and his teacher was always reminds me that our DS is not a boy who will always gets 'green clip' every single day , there are kids that will follow rule to the T and will get green everyday , but ours isn't , and i should accept that . I remember that meeting with her .. but we didn't have a big problem like with the current school right now . My DS still wished he attended that previous school with the same teacher because of how good of the experience he had with that teacher . He's not the one who will do what is told if you're yelling at him , the more you yell the more he'll go against you .

Since school is only 1.5 months away from summer , i don't think we can do anything about the teacher . If we do decide to stay in this school i surely hope the principal will choose someone who can understand DS .. he's not someone who will just do everything that he's told without asking question . Like you said he needs to go to advanced class , a teacher who can stimulate him to keep his mind busy , and a teacher who he can respect . Not someone who yells at him on daily basis .

jaylivg,

The situation your ds is in with this teacher simply sounds toxic - I understand you are very close to the end of the school year, but I would still recommend requesting an immediate teacher change. This is just me, so might totally *not* work in your situation, but if it was my child, I'd keep them home from school starting right now until the situation is resolved. We had to do this with our dd when she was in first grade and we were stuck in an unsafe situation in her classroom. We'd tried working it out through talking for several weeks and were getting totally stonewalled by the school - but keeping her home for simply 2 days worked like magic. We didn't call in sick or anything, we simply sent an email on the first morning saying we were not sending dd in to school until the situation could be resolved in a way that was safe for dd to attend.

Your situation is slightly different in that your ds isn't faced with a physical threat, but I'd consider that being with this teacher has the potential to cause long-lasting emotional stress and potential harm. My 2e ds was with a teacher who didn't understand him at all in 2nd grade and he was beyond miserable - and he still to this day will tell me about how horrible that year was for him.


I agree with your therapist that more explicit instructions on the use of time and materials is a good idea, but fwiw, I do think that my kids even in early elementary would have been able to connect the dots on "be respectful to adults and peers" with behaviors that aren't respectful. I don't mean they were angels and were always respectful, just think that the "be respectful to adults and peers" in and of itself isn't unusually vague for a young child. I think it sounds like maybe your ds might need a little bit of help, maybe with role-playing situations with you that he might encounter at school that are causing him a bit of trouble with this.


This is such a tough situation, because you weren't there when it happened, and you only have your ds who is going to give you any information, and his teacher obviously has some type of bias against your ds. The flip side of this is, the school can't and won't tell you what happens to the "other" child in situations like this, and you can't focus on the other child. That's a life lesson we go over frequently at our house - it's fairly natural for kids to want to see the "other" child be treated in a way that seems logical and fair, and it sometimes doesn't work out that way, and other times when things happen at school students aren't going to be let in on what does happen with other children. So I try to reinforce with my kids that the important thing is to focus on ourselves and our own behavior, and let the other pieces sort out however they are meant to. You have to stand up and advocate for your ds in the big scheme of things (ongoing issues with his teacher), but for one-time incidents, like the other child not being "punished" - it's usually best just to let go.

I hope your meeting this afternoon at school went well.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Are you familiar with basketball...in basketball if a defensive player is planted in a position and the offensive player runs into him it is charging. Sometimes the defensive player dramatically falls in a way that the referee can't miss the foul.

You need to teach your child how to "take the fall and draw the foul." When he is pushed, he dramatically and loudly falls to the ground and stays there. One, he won't be tempted to push back and two, he draws the attention of the coach and the coach sees that he was the one "fouled" and not the offender. Then he stands up and says he can shake it off.

Polarbear ,

I agree with what you're saying about the teacher situation , we did bring this up earlier too , but the principal insisted that the teacher is a good fit for our DS , because she's very consistent and she's really trying to make things work for DS . Although i really don't see it that way now because obviously DS isn't happy and because of all these problems , he feels like he's a bad kid .

That private behavior chart was working for him last week , he met his goal , almost meeting 90% of his goal everyday which is a huge improvement . And we do agree that the biggest obstacle for DS is talking and also being respectful with adults and peers .

Esp. being respectful , he talks back and this make him being disrespectful . If he thinks he can try to get away with it , he'll argue with you , he'll get you into an argument . This used to happen with me at home with him , but i chose to end it before i get sucked in into the argument or a debate contest with him .

The principal also notice this , and school thinks that DS likes the spotlight , he likes talking with adults , and he's trying to get them engaged into his favorite thing . Whether it gets him in trouble or not , he doesn't care .. because he gets to debate with them . The school thinks this was the problem with DS . It is possible .

They were saying that now in the classroom with the homeroom teacher , he's been doing better as far as being respectful because they said , his teacher just shut him up . So when he tried to argue , she would not give him a chance to argue , whether it's a hand signal , or whatever she does .. or maybe choose to ignore DS . They said it's been working .

Now , the school wants us to do the same thing , so if DS comes home from school , just look at the behavior chart and don't ask any other questions if he didn't meet his goal . Don't encourage him to talk and to manipulate us , his parents .

Do you think this right though ? I want DS to grow up and can talk with us , his parents , about anything . I don't want him to get an impression that we're not interested with anything that happened at school , or we're only interested with good things that happened at school not the bad ones . What if something bad happened and he didn't tell us because we didn't want to know about it , or didn't give him chance to tell us about it because the school said we should do the same thing like they do with DS ?

This will be hard for DS because i am sure he wants to tell us about whatever things happened at school . The school knows this will frustrate DS and thinks that we need to just do it and tough it up . DS is a person who loves to talk , he loves to tell you how his day was at school , he'd tell you why he gets in trouble , he would analyze the day point by point . And according to school and counselor we need to stop doing this . Because DS is liking it .. and he gets to manipulate the story and turns us parents against the school .

What do you think ??

Edited :
And not only it will frustrate DS , it will do the same thing to me too because i want to know how his day went at school , not just whether he meets his goals or not ( which is to collect 17 initials from being respectful , talking in appropriate time , finishes job , using time and material wisely )

Oh another thing , counselor said that DS is still a mystery to her , she can't figure him out .

I think telling you how to parent and interact with your child in your own home is ridiculous. There may very well be things that need to be tweaked in your interactions, but if your gut is telling you not to do this, do not do it. Home should be a place where it is appropriate to discuss pretty much anything, IMO. If not at home, then where? You are teaching your child to stuff his feelings down and not express them at all by following their advice.

Yeah, I agree. This all around sounds bad to me... I don't see your DS or you as the problem... I think the problem lies with the school. I really do not like the sound of that place at all.

The school is in the wrong, hands down. I'd pull my child from that environment so fast their heads would spin! I have been fairly patient during our journey to getting appropriate placement/supports for our son, but if I'd encountered people like THAT...I would've yanked him out of there in a heartbeat. That said, you do have legal recourse...but your victory may be Pyrrhic if you choose to go that route.

It sounds like the school's parenting recommendations are a backhanded attempt to cut off your source of evidence of their dysfunction. It's pretty boldfaced, if you ask me.

I would also be pulling my child out of school under those circumstances.

Thank you everyone ,

After getting out from the meeting and process everything that they told us , i felt like this wasn't right . Overnight i kept thinking about it , and it is true with what you guys are saying . It's like they're trying to shaping him into something that he's not , something that will make it easier for the school . Just like Master of none said they'll be happy once DS is an empty obedient shell .

I do agree that we have to teach him what is appropriate to argue about and when the right time to do that also . Yesterday , he came home and he was 4 initials short from meeting his goal , and i signed his paper , he was dying to tell me what was happening . Esp. during PE , and when i said i don't want to hear it , he was quiet , and at the end of the day he asked me , if i was okay , because i looked sad , and he was sorry that i looked sad . During bed time , he was really wanting to tell me again what was happening at PE .. but we tried to do what the school told us to do . It was hard , this morning again he tried to talk with me , and he was very frustrated and he was so upset and he said that he hates liar . By then i knew he's really trying hard to get me engaged into the conversation , telling me the story . Again i rejected him and he was really upset .

I hate doing that to him , i always wanted to know what was happening at school . And now all of sudden we have to shut him down like that .. so that he will not argue and learning just to nod and say yes ma'am yes sir , no ma'am no sir .

I have an answer to your quandary: don't follow the shool's terrible advice! It is clear that the only parties benefiting from the recommendations are the school staff. Your child is learning that his thoughts and feelings don't matter to his teachers. By adopting their damaging recommendations, he will learn that he can't count on you, either.

You are the parent and have ultimate say over what parenting philosophy you adopt. This is your choice. I urge you to return to the open and supportive communication that you clearly prefer.

Aquinas ,

thank you ! i know it's not working for me , i am not a parent who can just ignore how things going at school how his friends was , what interesting thing happened .. Whether it's good or bad , i want to know . And doing what i did yesterday made me miserable myself . I can't imagine being him , we're the only people he has to count on . The school urges us clearly yesterday that we should do it , to make things work for our DS . I guess to change our DS into someone he's not .

Thank you for reminding me that i need to be the parent he can count on because he has nobody else .

You're most welcome.

Absolutely...it is nothing but damaging for a school to interfere in the communications between a child and his parents. It's counterproductive, wrong, and frankly, dysfunctional as hell! I'd write them a very strongly-worded letter of reprimand and move on to greener pastures.

Thanks Kristinas ,

As much as i wanted to really tell them how i feel , my DS is still there , i just don't want their dislike towards me because of my letter causing my DS case even worse . I would love to have a good relationship with the school , but like you and i and everyone else said .. it is just wrong . And i do feel it was wrong but i thought i tried it yesterday , well it leads us nowhere but feeling even more miserable .

I think we'll just do what we've been doing at home with DS , we love to talk to each other , and probably about the debating and arguing we'll need to find a way to channel that . I don't want him to be someone that will just nod and do what everyone else say or command him to do . More to it .. he's not that kind of person .

Honestly, their advice is DANGEROUS. Who on earth is your child supposed to confide in? Ask questions of? The school isn't doing this, so that only leaves YOU. How would you ever know if he was being abused? Or bullied?

We are here to raise our children, not BREAK them. I can't believe the school would suggest something that seems so damaging! There is no way I would take their advice and I would definitely speak my mind even if it meant you may have to pull him out eventually. Staying quiet and letting them treat him like that can do incredible damage.

Oh my gosh, my heart is breaking for your son. I'm so glad you realize the school is giving you damaging parenting advice. I hope you can pull him out of that school.

Epoh ,

exactly what i was thinking , what if something bad happened , if he was hurt , was being bullied or abused and if i had to follow what the school tells me to do . That would be so wrong for me as a parent .

Talked with DH we both agreed that how we parent DS is not the school's business , we're still going to talk with him , he can tell us what really happens at school , the good and the bad , everything .

Today he came home and he met his goal , he was happy , but he said he had to keep reminding himself that he has to be quiet , has to be quiet , don't talk , don't talk . Nowadays when you're all quiet , they think there is something wrong with you . And when you're a talker , they also think there is something wrong with you .

So , it is monday , and something new always happens at school .

But i have a question , can any of your children bring a toy to school ? I am not talking big toys , i am talking things like lego mini figure . Can they play with this kind of toys during recess and also during car rider line ??

Back when i went to school i was allowed to bring toys to play with during recess . Has things changed so much that kids nowadays cannot even bring a toy out during recess ?

i think it really varies by school, and sometimes by individual teacher.

my kid (5) is LIVID that her school prohibits toys from home, yet other families break the rule all the time with impunity... the school she'll join next year has a looser policy (by class, based on how the kids handle it) - i feel like that'll work better for her... although i'm sure we're probably in for a rousing chorus of "they ruined it for EVERYONE" at some point!

They are not allowed toys at recess or in class (unless specifically told for some project and the details are outlined in a letter home) at my child's elementary school. The school has something like 900 kids and they are not in the business of keeping track of who owns which lego mini figure and playing judge and jury over who stole what or who gave who what who now wants it back. Just 900 headaches waiting to be made daily. But some kids have IEP's with figets that are allowed inside the desk (those koosh balls for example) for sensory needs but they have strict rules about them.

That said. My son goes to before and after care. IF he keeps his toy in his back pack, on Fridays, they are allowed to bring a toy and play with it in the morning and in the afternoon extended day care. But he knows if he loses it or it is stolen or he plays with it during school, he loses his privilege and no one is going to do anything about finding or returning it to him. Mainly he takes in a beyBlade or sometimes a new toy to show off (like his Harry Potter wand).

My children were not allowed to bring toys to elementary school (or preschool). It never occurred to me to send them either! The kids spent recess either playing on the playground equipment, playing basketball or 4-square or hopscotch etc and in the winter they played in the snow. There was a lot of imaginary play and social stuff going on at recess.

This is one of those rules that I'm guessing is mostly in place because it would be a huge time sink for the adults responsible for watching the kids at recess to deal with if everyone was bringing their own small toys - and I'm ok with that. There's always time after school to play with toys.

polarbear

Our kids bring in mini-lego figures and trade them (like in the older days they used to trade baseball cards) but technically I think they are not allowed I think. Every one and a while the boys get into arguments about the trading and then they are warned not to bring the stuff in but otherwise there isn't a big deal made ... Right now they are tradiang pokeman cards, which aren't technically toys and so far the cards are allowed.

I guess even a pokemon cards isn't allowed in our school . Although DS said lots of kids bringing their cards and small toys to school . It's not that i am allowing him to bring toys to school , i always said it's not a good idea because it might get taken away if he took it out in inappropriate time . He promised me he took it out only during recess and car line rider . I thought it was okay during recess and car rider line .. i guess it wasn't because it got taken away by the teacher yesterday during car line rider .

Thanks for the replies .

There are often things that are specifically banned - trading cards usually because of the trading issues. I think toys are strongly discouraged at my son's school because of loss, theft etc. You can take them in to show but then put them in your bag. Having said that my son took his new hotwheels cars to school after his birthday and lost 2. He didn't get a lot of sympathy.

I would, however expect the child to told to put it away rather than having it confiscated unless it was actually during class time (or it was happening regularly).

We never took toys to school as kids.

Oh and if you are able to stay home with your son could you get a stress (too stressed to attend school)note from your doctor
and keep him home for the rest of the year. Explain to the school the the situation is resulting in stress behavoirs and symptoms and you would like to work with to ensure that next year is better.

I actually did ask the homeroom teacher a while ago , and she said yes , the kids can bring toys but only for recess and car rider line or bus , esp. car and bus line , that's when the kids have to wait for quite some time .. and it's ok .

So i thought it's okay as long as DS doesn't take it out during class . Oh i totally understand during class you DON'T take any toys out .

I told the principal , the homeroom teacher said he could bring a toy during recess and car rider line . She then called the teacher and the teacher changed her story and said " oh we never allowed any students to bring any sort of toy during recess or car rider line "

My son then said " but you allowed me to bring my spinner that time ... "

Maybe the school's rule was not allowing students to bring any toy during recess and car rider line , but the teacher let the kids .. and now the principal found out , and maybe teacher got in trouble for it too . I don't know .. i am just worrying that she's going to take it out on DS . DS is already in an awful position as he is already .

The asst. principal told me that private behavior chart where it has column for lunch/recess , he needs to earn 4 initials for - using kind words
- following teacher direction with quiet mouth
- complete work in timely manner
- using time and material wisely

the asst. principal said the last 2 during recess and lunch is basically freebies . But guess what ? there are several days that the last 2 didn't get initials . What could possibly happen ? God forbid that he didn't finish his lunch or didn't use his 'materials' wisely during recess and lunch .

Puffin , exactly , if it's during car rider line , which is already out from school time anyway , why couldn't they just tell DS put it away instead of confiscated it . It's not during classroom .