Starting a new thread so as not to hijack Ephelidasa's. It seems like there are a lot of issues around how other parents react to our kids.

On the one hand, we have to remember that other parents' overriding concern is their own child. The girl who was bullying Hanni? I've known and loved her since she was a baby, but I actually found myself thinking, "So this is how it feels to want to kill a four year old." That girl's own issues and challenges were a distant, distant speck on the horizon in my mental landscape. Our children need support and advocacy and allies, but the parents of other children (who are being affected by our children) are not neccessarily the place to find that.

On the other hand, there are all kinds of attitudes that go way beyond the bounds of the parent putting their own child first, and enter the realm of intrusiveness and offensiveness.

One area I get this is single parenting. "It must be so hard being a single mom! I just don't know how you do it!" To which I want to reply, "It must be so hard being married to your husband! How do you manage it at the same time that you're raising children?"

I also get invasive comments about Hanni's extreme attachment. I have one friend who is convinced that it's because I co-sleep with her. The co-sleeping thing has bugged this mom ever since she moved her own daughter to a separate bed, and she doesn't miss a chance to hint that Hanni would be better off in her own bed. Sheesh!

And that's not even starting on the comments we all get about smartness, quirkiness, grade-skips, hot-housing, private schooling, homeschooling . . .

It's not any PARTICULAR comment, it's that it seems like everyone has to comment ALL THE TIME...

Or the looks, sans comments... (in reaction to both my kids' extreme emotional outbursts). Sigh.

Or the talking behind our backs.

I wouldn't rule it out, though. I have found it truly worthwhile to invest time and thought in other people's kids (by volunteering strategically for things where I get to engage with them, Junior Great Books, clubs, etc.). Those parents know me, know I'm not evil, know I genuinely appreciate their kids' strengths and challenges; and they have some sense (whether explicitly or implicitly) that DS has lots of struggles. I have found that those parents whose kids I've invested some attention in are incredibly willing to understand our challenges.


Yep. Some people appear to feel they have all the answers. I sure don't. But over time, the people who sympathize with us have gravitated toward us (or us to them), and those who don't care for us don't really have to talk with us... it has kind of shaken out into something livable over time.

It does get easier as the kids get older, too, because more of the moms who were so high-strung about making everything perfect have faced more challenges-- almost nobody gets to middle school without some interesting thing to face-- and so the conversations are more sympathetic. MegMeg, you're at the hardest age for the judgmental stuff. It *should* get better, if my community is any indicator.

DeeDee

MegMeg, I'm going to focus on the cosleeping, which may be irrelevant to others here and a bit of a tangent. I just wanted to validate your frustration, as you underlined the cosleeping issue particularly.

For full disclosure, I'm of the opinion that most pursuits should be child led, so you have full commiseration from me as a fellow co-sleeper. As with almost anything personal, I believe the decision is one made based on individual needs and a parents' expert assessment of his/her child's needs.

I type this with my 15mo son nestled against me, his hands holding onto my hair. He has a cold and has woken to nurse 4 times in the last hour. Even when healthy, he physically needs my presence to self-regulate and can't settle unless nursing or being carried. I accept that. I receive criticism for this practice--even from my husband--but my total immersion in my son's life makes me the best qualified individual to assess my son's needs. Full stop.

While I would prefer more autonomy during his sleep to pursue my own interests, I see our attachment as both mutually nurturing and as a relatively small investment in his overall development. We are from an age where it is common to seek fulfillment for our deepest needs with materialism, rather than intimacy and love. Naturally, views on co-sleeping have become perverted in a climate with a morally compromised mindset.

End commiserating rant.

Well said, Acquinas! I co-slept with both my kids... My husband didn't mind. I heard so many commnets about how they would never sleep on their own, yadda yadda yaddda. Well, they both do sleep on their own now (there is the rare instance of a nightmare but that's very rare). I miss those co-sleeping days to a certain extent.. they grow so fast and once that time is gone it's gone.

On the main topic: I would like to see parents mutually recognize one another as specialists in their respective children's needs and abilities. This forum is such a refreshing environment because I think we achieve this implicitly.

I often feel as if the other parents like the boys in the class as they are, a sports loving, cartoon referencing, clique. My son upsets their "normal". That's why they make the comments. It's not because they are worried about their kids, or are concerned about mine. They just can't stand "different" unless it's their own kid.

Or the Laugh. Wow do I hate the Laugh. Hanni will say something clear and articulate and interesting, expecting a good-faith response from the adult she is addressing, and she gets . . . the Laugh. Then the adult makes eye contact with me, and repeats one of Hanni's phrases. To me. As if I had just showed off my pet parrot.

LOL This is true of my general area. Very conformist, cliquey - at least in my development. All the men are frat-boy has-beens who all seem to have gone to Penn State for business, they all are glued to their tv sets on sundays for the whatever game is on (the women on those days refer to themselves as "sports-widows,") the little boys all play the same sports, evryone has the same car that they trade out every two years for a new one (all the same), everyone dresses the same. As I drive through the neighborhood the theme song to "Weeds" plays in my head - "and they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same." LOL Needless to say, my husband, the computer geek, and I, an opinionated lawyer (who dared breastfeed her child beyond 6 weeks and sometimes even IN PUBLIC ) do not really fit in with our 12 year old car (though my minivan is relativley newer but it is a MINIVAN not a lexus SUV or a Range Rover). Surprisingly, my quirky/artsy Ds who isn't the biggest into sports either is relatively popular these days - I think it's his mohawk (which he likes to use red gel in) and the fact the little girls seem to get crushes on him. Maybe it's his rebel/bad boy image...

Today, a more than usually self aware person said to me with exceptional self-confidence. "You know, you can't REASON with them at that age..." (beat) (confidence restored) "but he seems to be understanding."

Just thought that one might amuse people.

HG+ children themselves find this increasingly grating, too. Just noting that it doesn't really go away as they get older. It just becomes snide/inappropriate comments that "Label" the child, rather than acknowledging him/her as a person.

Oh swell.

I get irritated when people talk about him like he isn't there. Our ped. has done this several times.

It is funny because our vet acts like our dog is a person and our ped. acts like our kid isn't.

My smart/quirky/musical theater kid did not fit in and never seemed to have any desire to fit in with the sports kids in our small town. When he was in kindergarten the teacher that told me that kids that age are very accepting of differences (like reading way above grade level and using a high level vocabulary and getting so excited about books and science and learning in general) and made it sound like it was some kind of behavior problem that we needed to fix so that he would fit in and color in the lines without complaining and act like he loved football like everyone else.

I feel a little sad for the kindergarten teacher because I think she is finding out that it doesn't work to force a child to be like everyone else. I found out recently that her own smart/quirky/artsy son who sang at all the local small town festivals and wrote some of his own music and was very good at it has turned away from his very religious upbringing and his music definitely reflects that. I wonder if he was bullied at our small town school or if he was able to hide his differences enough to avoid the bullying. My aunt, the grandmother of popular sports kids in our town, says artsy kids are bullied everywhere, that it isn't just our town that has a problem, but I don't believe it is as bad in most other places.

People are shunned and bullied here for being different, yet my son wears his hair in a style that is different from that of the sports kids because he doesn't want to appear to be associated with them in any way.

I am so happy that my child is not like the sports kids in our area. I hear those sports kids talking at restaurants with their limited vocabulary, making fun of people who are different. But I am sad that we have to be so isolated for such a long time and that my son will have to wait until college to find other kids like him.

[quote=KJP]I get irritated when people talk about him like he isn't there. Our ped. has done this several times.

Our first ped. did this too, as did the staff in the office. We switched peds- best move ever, if you have the option. Our current ped has a great relationship with each kid, and treats them as the primary person in the visit- something I know will help when they are teens and in the exam room without mom .

That is funny. I never thought about that, but our vet treats our dog better than one of the pediatricians my son saw several years ago. My son had the nerve to ask her to explain what she was doing and why instead of immediately sitting silently and doing as told. When I asked questions she told me that we would have to make another appointment if we wanted to ask so many questions because she didn't have time to answer them. Now that I think about this it upsets me that my dog got better treatment than my son did at the military base my son had to go to for his medical care.

Our dentist enjoys my son's questions and always takes time to answer him. Her sons are gifted. One of them is a doctor.

Another cosleeper here--my probably highly gifted dd coslept and transitioned herself to her own room before 3yo. DS (who is probably gifted but not as obviously) really needs me around. He's suuuuper sensitive so he needs a lot of extra comfort. We're all lucky (DS, DH, and I) to be on the same page about this being appropriate for this "season of life."

I'm getting comments at school (DD is in K) just because she's surprised people with her reading and everyone volunteers during language arts at some point it seems (except me, because DS needs me at naptime, ha). Some have been very neutral which I'll take, but came across as a little pointed. If they asked I'd love to explain we didn't hothouse her :p DS is getting the "wow he's really talking" comments but dd talks so much he flies under the radar and we got them SO much w her it really is easier to just vaguely smile and move on. We're lucky we've only had mostly neutral or even sympathetic (wondering if dd is bored etc) comments... Hopefully no one's talking behind our backs.

How "seen" a child is really depends on personality a lot. I know my middle child is HG+, but the only comments we got about her when little were either about her inappropriate climbing / investigating from 6months to 2 yrs, or "Does she talk yet?" - when she'd been talking non stop to me for over a year, but did not to all to others, or even to me infront of other people. My youngest on the other hand draws attention and comments everywhere she goes. I'm sure she's gifted, she could be more gifted I suppose, hard to know at not yet 3. But she doesn't seem more out their intellectually than my older girls so much as way more out there in extroversion and social skills.... "Oh I could wear my ballerina leggings to the shops and people would notice my beautiful leggings and they would talk to me! Ok, I'll wear them! Lets go!" She's sure the whole world lives only to talk to her (or more accurately to listen to her).

It's sad how insecure people are. My eldest is gifted, and it's quite obvious to strangers at, say, the playground Then when they see my baby (who is 11 months old, but as big and tall as a two year old) "struggling" to do two year old activities, they are so quick to offer me their patronising sympathy. Their reaction when I tell then his actual age is both humorous and terribly sad.

Some people ask questions about how I have raised them, or what I ate during pregnancy, and are genuinely interested; others, not so much. I find it sad because their jealousy of your child just shows their own disappointment in their own child.

And disappointment in themselves by extension. I always want to hug these people's children because their parents are valuing them according to a narrow set of attributes and missing what makes them special.

Some of my favourite people in my life are the simplest, least erudite because their kindness and love are their exceptional qualities. I mean for that to sound laudatory, not pejorative.

I don't think most people are necessarily jealous; I've found it's more curiosity and astonishment. (Yes, sometimes with the question about "working with" the child at home; but I connect that more with them pitying the theoretically overworked child than with them admiring the results.) Around here, being too smart is not universally admired.

I wouldn't assume that they are disappointed in their kids. Just because a child is not academically gifted doesn't mean that child is "ordinary" at all. I feel strongly that all kids have talents that can be recognized and cultivated; and I don't like the assumption that gifted kids are of another kind altogether than other kids, or more valuable.

DeeDee

A friend of mine has another friend whose two kids have been identified as gifted. Between this other friend and myself, she's inundated with stories and tales of woe about GT.

One day she made a comment that she's "not one of those people who needs her kids to be gifted."

Interestingly, I didn't take offense to this at all, because of the kind of genuine person she is, and the intent with which the comment was made: she doesn't feel like she's "failing" as a parent because her kids are average. We've probably all encountered the jealous and bitter ones, but there are also many parents out there who are very content with and proud of their typical kids.

I have gotten this response from other parents: "Well, if I had the option to be a stay-at-home-mom like you then my child would be just as smart. But I have to work."
Others always assume that I am constantly pushing my DS and that the only reason he is gifted is because he didn't go to daycare. Not true at all. He was definitely born gifted!

Most of the reactions we get aren't really positive or negative, they're often MIXED, or confused, most often they are simply variations on "does not compute. Does not compute. Whir. Whir. Does not.. com..." (crunch)

I seem to encounter the jealous and bitter ones LOL. Or the really proud, amazed ones. In my eldest's class, there is a mum whose baby is six weeks older than my 11 month old. When we go in, my baby sometimes walks in. When she sees this, she gets her baby out of the pram and tries to get her to walk; when she starts crawling, the mum's look of frustration says it all. Of course, that's only walking- hardly an indicator of brilliance- but is representative of their reaction to my eldest's achievement.

I also have a "friend" who is extremely competitive and is constantly making up lies about her daughter's abilities. I feel that she wouldn't lie about it unless she is trying to cover up the disappointment in her daughter; because her daughter doesn't lie about it, just the mum.

I just find it hard to accept that parents can feel this way about their kids, and also about others', instead of feeling happy that a child may have an easier life in this horrible world. I am grateful that gifted children exist. How sad that anyone could think badly of any child.

Then there's the elaborately casual questions, fishing for information. "So . . . that school takes a lot of kids early for kindergarten?" Um, no. Why?

This is what we get. That and people telling us that they would never do to their child (pushing them to grow up too fast) what we have "done" to ours.

Another friend of mine: "I preferred to let N(her DD) have a normal childhood. I didn't spend time with flashcards or anything like that."

(sigh). Neither did I.

Oh yeah (lol) ...just thought of another one. Different friend: "Hey, you can teach (her DS, then 3) to read too, right? I don't know how to work with him. Hey (her DS), go look at that book CCN has! Show him how to read."

...it was funny because at that point I was almost feeling like I had some kind of credit in my DD's early reading, but when my friend's DS stared blankly at the page and then looked away, I was aware for the first time that there really are some kids who aren't ready to read at three. Wow... and here I thought that was normal.

I was told by a friend the reason my girls don't sleep 12 hours each night like her kids do is because I don't discpline them enough. I couldn't get it through her head that my kids don't sleep much and that's just one of their "quirks". Nope, I don't discpline them enough.

hmmm...

I know that their children would NEVER do this to them, either. In the interests of being fair.

LOL.

I got told a LOT about what was "developmentally appropriate" in terms of impulse control, touching/mouthing objects, etc. Long before most people had any idea just how high DD's LOG was, we looked like total helicopter parents.

So they definitely assume that she's a product of parental grooming somehow.

Oh well. I've really let go of most of my angst on this score.

I do recall one exchange at the park when DD was about two, though.

(outraged fellow parent) "You can't stop them from TOUCHING things at this age, you know. That's not developmentally appropriate. It's how kids learn about the world. I would never do that to my child!"

Me: What? Keep her alive, you mean? Developmentally inappropriate or not, she HAS to ask before she picks things up off the ground. So she does.

I have started to avoid friends who have kids the same age as dd or even 2-3 years older. It is sad but that is the only way I can avoid hurting them, myself and most importantly my kid. The only person I cannot avoid is my SIL whose son is 2 months younger than DD. MY SIL treats DD badly by completely ignoring her even when DD is addressing her directly. She also pretends to not understand my DD even though her speech is legible enough for strangers to have conversations with her. DD is still innocent where she does not pick up on this. However, if and when DD starts to feel the insult, I will be staying away from SIL as well. Sigh!

Our kids are masters at blending, which has good and bad aspects. The good are mostly the obvious, but here is an example of the bad.

We advocated to get dd (7th grade) into a special district-wide language arts program for HG kids. They actually have a policy against parent nominations, but apparently dd blends so well she fell through the cracks of the selection process. When I finally got their attention (using my best stealth techniques), the administrator at the school called me and said "___[dd] meets the criteria for the program. I knew she is a strong student, but I just looked at her MAP reading score and I don't think I've ever seen one that high before!!"

Interesting on multiple levels.... This was after the person who *should* have initiated the nomination said to us (about dd), "She would be a great candidate for the program. I don't know how I overlooked her before."

Comments seemed to peak around 3 because that was when the gap was most obvious. Here was this baby faced child reading fluently, using a very extensive vocabulary, with encyclopedia knowledge of many things in her environment and she still thought that was normal so she just spoke her mind. Now, we do get comments, but because she is extroverted and happy go lucky and popular,she doesn't present in a way that reads super smart kid from a distance and most parents don't even talk to her anymore. She still has her impressive, shocking moments, but three was certainly the year that we heard comments on an almost daily basis. I remember her holding a squirrel toy at a store when she was three and a grandmother type bent down to ask her "what kind of squirrel is that" and she said, "an impertinent one I imagine!" (it had an impish look) and the lady gave the strangest smile.

Same for us. Now that DS is 7 and his agemates are speaking well he doesn't stand out as much. You have to engage in a deeper conversation with him before you realize his intellect. Whereas when he was about 3, speaking clear, and talking openly about the universe, anatomy, or whatever he was interested in at that moment, he stood out more than he does now.

Our DD8 is silly and outgoing, but there are still so many ways in which she shows off her intellect just by being herself. For instance, we recently had an adult visitor in our house, and with her parents occupied, DD decided to occupy herself by using her white board to validate that "Tom Marvolo Riddle" really was an anagram of "I am Lord Voldemort." The visitor couldn't help but notice, and comment (positively).

We found that 4-6 yo was when we got the greatest number of comments (often based on what she was reading or asking)-- but also again at 9-11 yo, when as an accelerated kid, she was very obviously tiny/young as compared to peers in activities.

It's becoming less obvious now that she is an adolescent-- the tween years were very hard this way, and a lot of the most hurtful comments (from DD's perspective) were during that period of time.

Same here, with my DD10. Once she entered preschool (3 months before she turned 4) she learned to play chameleon and to hide the differences.

Doctors have always noticed that my son is very bright and articulate. The doctor my son saw a few days ago said that my son seemed older and much more mature than the typical 14 year old. My son is having to hear a lot of very difficult things about his upcoming spinal fusion surgery, including the inevitable pain and risk of complications. He has the maturity and intelligence to look up information online and learn what he needs to know to help make the decisions that must be made and to ask the questions that need to be asked. He did this on his own. He knew I was having trouble with all of this so he didn't talk to me about it and he did it without thinking that he needed to be medicated for anxiety. He explained to the doctor that his blood pressure always goes back down after he hears bad news. He accepts the bad news and moves forward with whatever he needs to do.

Lori H, your son sounds amazing. I hope all goes well.

Twinkle Toes and others posting about those preschool years of endless comments, I can hardly say how moving it is to just hear from others who've had the same experience. It really does feel amazing to just feel like it's normal.