So if my 4 1/2 year old can read Magic Treehouse chapter books (actually, MTH study guides, which I think are slightly more difficult?) and miss about 1 word a page, he is probably going to test gifted, right? I don't see any indications that he is 2E in any way.

(This matters, because as long we can assume he'll test GT, we will enroll him at DD's school for K and 1. It won't be all that great for K and 1, but he'll automatically get into the gifted magnet that she now attends in grade 2. If we aren't sure he's gifted, then we need to look elsewhere, and soon.)

I know some kids read early and aren't necessarily gifted, or are borderline MG. He has to test at 130 to get into the magnet.

Early reading is a common sign of giftedness. It doesn't mean for sure he's gifted, and not reading early doesn't mean someone isn't gifted.

Did he teach himself to read is probably a better indicator... I think nearly any kid can be taught to read reasonably well by age 4, but a kid that just teaches themselves is most likely gifted.

Yes, your son is likely gifted. Does he have other outlier abilities that can give you more clues about his level? Advanced legos perhaps?

And just from my experience in my childrens' pre-ks (with highly motivated parents), most 4 year-olds, no matter how well-taught, won't be able to read MTH books. My dd is in an HGT classroom this year in 1st, and some of the HGT kids are barely reading MTH.

Ditto what Amy wrote, but in addition I think things are made more unclear today by educational toys and media. So I'd include the reading as a factor in my analysis, but go much more on your gut feeling and the fact that there are other gifted people in the family.

Yes, self-taught other than occasional exposure to Starfall (like, I sometimes let him play on the site for half an hour here and there, for probably less than 20 sessions in total) and Word World. I should have specified.

Other indicators exist, most obviously encylopedic knowledge of the ocean and learning to play chess (correctly and maybe at the level of the average 5 or 6yo?) at 3. He can also add and subtract numbers to about 12 in his head, but I don't find that terribly impressive myself. Before he could read, he memorized extremely long books. Other stuff as well, but as a toddler he was less flashy than his sister. Oh, he can do Lego sets labeled 5-7 and 100-piece puzzles, but that doesn't seem too advanced.

So we don't feel certain that reading at a 3rd grade level at 4 is indicative of giftedness? I was feeling kinda ready to stop worrying about this issue (not whether he is gifted--but where we should send him to K next year), but wasn't sure. We could consider paying for private testing to put the worry to bed, but I'd rather not. At the same time, we would feel like we had made quite an error if he eventually turned out not to be eligible for the magnet.

*double post

IIRC, the study guides are about 5th grade level.

For me, I'd say anyone with a 4yo reading them would be safe in assuming giftedness. But I say that from my perspective as mom of the kid who didn't read before kindergarten (so nearly 5.5), despite being desperate to learn and despite my efforts to teach her and despite her preschool teachers' opinions that she'd be reading by the end of preschool.

My concern would not be "is he gifted," but "is he gifted in such a way that he's assured of a 130 on the school's test."

FWIW, I'd guess my DD would have no trouble getting the 130 required for admission to the gifted private school near us. But it would still make me nervous to be betting on that 3 years out, you know?

I'd think that the odds are relatively high in favor of him exceeding the benchmark in this case.

Barring any LD issues that you don't yet know about, I mean.

I'd think that it'd be well evident by late Kindy whether or not he seems to be exhibiting any other signs, or if the peers seem to be catching up to him, etc.

I'm trying to think about the other kids I've known that devoured those MTH books in preK and Kindy.... I know of only a handful of them, and all of those kids have since been identified as GT. My DD (PG) was the only one that had 'aged out' of the books by kindergarten age, though most of them had by the end of 2nd grade when more NT/average learners like them best.

Don't know if that means anything, as it is anecdotal, obviously-- but that kind of comprehension and interest is remarkable, I think, even if the strict decoding part of it may not be.

Late kindy is too late, unfortunately. Well, I mean, it isn't--but the die will be cast by then and it will be harder for us to pursue other options, for various ridiculously complex reasons relating to our local school system. We basically need to make our bets by January.


I have some concerns about this as well. MY DD was closer to the line than I thought she would be (although she took the RIAS, and the results were a little weird). I would say that I am 90% confident he has no LDs, though. I just don't see it.

I think reading MTH study guides, most of which appear on the scholastic wizard as grade 3 or 4, is a pretty good indicator of some level of giftedness. Along with everything else you mentioned, plus the fact that others in the family are gifted.

Are there other really great K-1 options that you'd rather consider? Is it really that bad of an option? Are there concerns you have that you might be able to fix through advocacy? Are spots in the magnet really tough to get into if you don't go to their K-1 but your DS qualifies?

It's always hard to make decisions about schooling. In my experience, programs can change in a couple of years, so there's not even any guarantee what will be available down the road. You try to make the best decision based on the fact you have. That is why testing information is rather nice to have, as it adds more information to help you make a more informed decision.

My whole view of this issue was warped when my friend's son who likewise was reading MTH chapter books at 5 tested not gifted. His mom pushed for the testing(he has an older sister who is gifted) thinking he was indeed gifted (incidentally her daughter who did test "gifted" was not reading chapter books at 5). I was floored when she told me the results came back and he was not in the gifted range. She said he is doing well where he is in school and is bright so she is fine with it and doesn't suspect any LDs or 2e issues.

LOL - That's a warped yardstick you've got there. There is no average chess playing level for 5 or 6 year olds - unless you count using the pieces to stage battles!

Yes, MG 5 year olds can learn how the chess pieces move, if they are interested, but not average 5 or 6 year olds.

Short of getting an IQ test now, or using Talent Ignighter, you can't know for sure how your child will test, but it's reasonable to expect that your son will qualify. BTW - do you know what kind of test they use to identify kids? Is it a group test or in individual test?

Smiles,
Grinity

Individual test, but I don't know which one they'll use. It seems to vary, but will not be the COGAT.

Ok, check (no pun intended ;p ) ...the doc couldn't calculate DS's IQ but I think he's MG. He wasn't playing chess at 3, but at 6 he played it well enough to beat his older sister and even me a few times (in my defense I thought "he's 6... how good can he be... might as well start dinner while we play") ....and presto: "Checkmate, Mama!!!" (oops) ;p

DS has beaten me, but I'm really terrible; I am very apathetic about the outcome, and I daydream while I play. Still, it's embarrassing.

Also, at this point I have less experience than he does, having played probably less than 20 games in my whole life before my kids became interested. However, one would hope I might have some more mental maturity or....something!

LOL My dad taught me when I was a tween/teen? I forget how old. I still remember the first time I beat him - it finally dawned on me to slooooow doooown and assess each piece. I haven't played that much though and am still pretty "entry level."

I remember one day DS(then 6) and DD(then 7) were playing chess together at the coffee table and DH sat there watching them, just shaking his head, stunned. (He was one of the "cool" kids who cut class in school and I was the honor roll nerd). It was pretty funny to see mom's nerd DNA prevail!! heh heh.

My eldest, DD17, did the after school chess in K/1st (so age 5 or 6). She was pretty good and routinely beat 4th graders. She never was very interested in chess though, so she never learned any tactics/strategies. She always has had the ability to look a few moves ahead, and could beat adults at Connect 4 at age 5 or 6.

She is likely MG based upon FSIQ and other testing. She is still fairly good at chess, though she goes a few years between games. Last year (11th grade) she was on a school trip and there was a chess board in the hotel game area/library. A friend challenged her to a game, warned her that he was pretty good at chess, and within 10 minutes she had won. It is interesting that she has always been good at chess, since I think of that as a math type activity. She is not into math, and languages are her strength.

One day I looked at chess and said to myself "hey, this game is finite! No wonder computers can beat people at it!"

Now, I bet no computer could ever beat a human player at a 40 x 40 game of go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game)