Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Math Acceleration

DS7 is in a tracked 2nd grade class (unoffcial "GT" class out of 5 2nd grade classes) and was recently subject accelerated to the 3rd grade GT math class (compacted 3rd & 4th grade math). Although the acceleration idea was brought up by his teachers last year and this year, when I finally pursued it with the administration, the process took a while and was much more elaborate than I had expected. Essentially, DS7 had to demonstrated mastery of end of year math skills at least 2 years beyond and after that had to qualify based on his ability to solve problems that he had never encountered (new materials) as well as articulate/write step by step solutions.

Initially, I was puzzled why a student would have to be so far advance in order to accelerate at all. Now I kind of understand because it is clear that the subject accelerated student would have to be far more advanced that the typical student in his new class, partly because he would not have the same scaffold/support in place. For example, DS7 essentially jumped in the middle of the course without the prior background and due to scheduling issues there are days when DS7 would not be able to attend the class, but would have to complete the classwork anyhow.

While I already have dismiss the suggestion of grade acceleration and don't intend to subject accelerate him further at this point, it has become clear to me that when a student is accelerated in this manner, there is simpler no way for him to ever be in the same position as a typical student. By that, I am referring to the opportunity to be in a class where the bulk of the material will be new and/or challenging.

What in the world do parents do? I already have refrained from teaching math curriculum to DS, which had actually caused him to miss a few questions on the end-of-year mastery test as he didn't know all the vocabulary and the teaching conventions.

That there is the issue of what math options DS7 will have come 5th grade, which is the end of elementary school. He brought up the question a couple of times and I really didn't have an answer for him. As things stands now, he will be studying Algebra in 6th grade, upon entry to middle school. There already is established precedent for the most abled-students to take Algebra in 6th grade at the middle school.

I am sort of rambling, but I am just realizing that there really is no good fit for certain kids.

I saw this when DD took the placement test for CTY. She was doing the second grade math fine but then hit some terms: convex and concave, that she didn't know. Then there was something else, she had not encountered. Not that she couldn't have answered easily given an explanation but I thought I shouldn't since it was a placement test. She had to start at the beginning of the accelerated grade 2 math as a result and she went through but it was useful as I worked with her to use a worksheet to figure things out, since she was doing it on the computer, and it helped build some skills. And there was clearly more in this section that she needed to learn in polygons and paths, which she had not learned before.

The thing is, with a program like CTY, they can go fast and learn as quickly as they want.

Ren

There are some parents of kids who are much more advanced in math than my kiddo, but I too have found that it's difficult to find perfect placement (although I think we're hitting it close right now at a school for HG kids). I think Carolyn K on Hoagies came up with the concept of "least-worst" situation for these kids who are out of place in the standard school situation. I think that's all we can really do -- find options that will be the best fit for the current time/place/situation. Things will change, and although the school will want to throw out all the "what will we do when he gets to such-and-such grade," I think the best thing we can do is teach our kids the best we can right now. See Tamara Fisher's blog entry: This Year's Kid, Not Next Year's Teacher

Wren makes a great point about online options, which are flexible because they go at your own kid's pace. There are a lot of great one's out there. Davidson has a nice comparison chart: Online Math Program Comparison

Good luck!

That's exactly what we've had to do-- the "least-worst" options and lots of decision-making grids.

And earplugs. LOL. Most parents of bright and MG children are going to think that options that we must consider are "extreme" to the point that we maybe, uh... shouldn't be considering them. If you know what I mean.

For us, brick-and-mortar school just hasn't been on the table, so to speak-- but that isn't entirely because of giftedness alone. There are too many barriers to overcome, and too little benefit in (what would be) an unsuitable academic placement.

Homeschool or virtual school was about the only way to come close to a "least worst" solution.

My DD is eleven and is acing HS geometry this year... and could probably be quite happy with Algebra II or higher, but we've chosen NOT to do that as a compromise with the school. We'll keep her (sort of) in sync with a regular sequence, and they'll allow her to be accelerated four grades if we do... on the other hand, I was none too thrilled to learn that one classmate <GULP> 'has a baby.' There are some real down-sides to having a preteen in classes with older teenagers. It's a sort of Faustian bargain, really, but all of the alternatives are worse by far, either in the here and now or in the long term.

This solution has her taking "time out" her sophomore year to take AP Statistics, which should be really enjoyable for her.... and it is a way of enriching the curriculum without pushing her further into the standard sequence. Schools have a tough time doing that with mathematics up until high school, (at least in my experience they do).

While I like the idea of keeping DD with some chronological peers, there's not real 'authenticity' there, either. There just aren't a whole lot of students like her, so we can't really expect that she will be placed with "true peers" academically. We don't live in a large enough metropolitan area for that. So keeping her with same AGE peers won't work academically. (We tried that with some homeschooling activities, and it was a complete waste of time. DD hated it and resentfully tuned everything out; therefore it was pointless to try.) Academic peers, on the other hand, are 3-5 years older, even among MG students... and the courses still don't move at quite the clip that DD would like...

Not perfect, but not as bad as with same-age peers, however. We know others in our home school district that have had children transported to the High School for math (or another subject) as middle schoolers, and still others that have done EPGY as an in-class pullout.

(You did ask what other parents do with these situations.)


As Saint Pauli Girl notes, in these situations, there often isn't a "good" answer. Only answers that are clearly worse than others.


I have heard that getting some sound advice from the DYS can really help iron things out with a school district that can't see what is appropriate, or doesn't know how to do it. HTH!

I thought about CTY. Actually, I am debating whether to bother having DS7 take the CTY test. It seems that it would not be very informative in his situation as he already is obviously above level so scoring well doesn't really show much of anything. I mean the purpose of above-level testing is to gauge their ability, but if the "above-level" test is not really "above-level" because it is "at level", then what is the point?

My dilemma is partly due to the fact that I do not have an "academic" child. He is not interested in after-schooling nor do I have the time (demanding full-time job, three kids and a special needs child) or inclination. That, in fact, was one of the reasons that I decided to pursue subject acceleration for him. He is difficult to teach because he doesn't like to listen or take more than a couple of minutes to figure out concepts. I pretty much leave him alone and just answer random questions here and there, which is how he mastered 3rd and 4th grade math as well as picked up some more some advance math concepts.

You make a great point with the "least worst" standard. I just have to remember that is why I pursue the subject acceleration in the first place. I really envy the idea of a special HG school, although I don't know that DS7 would even fall into that category. He's simply one of those lucky kids who is extremely verbal and has incredibly processing speed and great memory. In fact, although he seems to pick up math concepts without being taught, I don't even know that he is a particularly mathy kid as his strength is really on the verbal side. In other words, he is not really visual-spatial oriented, which is what I associate with "mathy" kids.

I think that for me the question also is whether a child should pursue higher academics just because they are capable. I completely get the situation where the child is crazy about academics and just wants to study as may be the case for many children on this forum. However, DS7 simply isn't inclined towards additonal work. As a matter of fact, he is incredibly adept at deicphering the exact minimum he needs to provide (particularly to satisfy writing requirements)and producing that exact amount needed to get the top grade.

I really can't claim social misfit either. DS7 is happy with his chronological peers. He has fun with them so it wouldn't make sense to remove him to a different environment. Interestingly, the high school is near the elementary school, but GT algebra isn't available at the high school because algebra after 7th grade wouldn't be considered "advance/ahead". You are right that it is better to worry about the latter years later.

He could always take the EXPLORE (8th grade test) through talent search next year as a 3rd grader. I don't know what more you'd get from it but possibly his school would be willing to further subject accelerate or provide added enrichment if he aces it. Dd10 (5th grader) has one 4th grade student in her 6th grade math class. It isn't unheard of to do multiple grade subject acceleration in math. Other than one school that subject accelerated dd12 in literacy, math is actually the only subject for which we've ever had a school offer subject acceleration.

Oh, how your statement of your child being adept at "gaming" the system for the top grades resonates... Ay yi yi. DD has gone so far as to calculate what she "needs" to earn on a final exam to keep an A+... and she's DELIGHTED if she can figure out where quiz questions are "pulled" from so that she can take such shortcuts. It's maddening, but I can't blame her. She's just learned that official schooling is more about jumping through hoops than it is about authentically learning new and exciting things.

My DD isn't particularly 'driven' academically, either. She's GOAL-oriented academically, (she wants straight A+ grades, and she wants to graduate EARLY.... and she wants to graduate first in her high school class) but that isn't the same thing as wanting to do all the daily work to make those things happen.

I definitely wouldn't say that DD11 is a social misfit, either. Anything BUT, in fact.
She is a total social chameleon-- she simply adjusts her reactions, interests, and responses to the environment/expectations, no matter what they are. In other words, she sounds a lot like your child.

Our acceleration of her has a lot more to do with "least-worst" than it might appear there.

There are times when I quite literally have to screech at her to do her work. But the thing is, that would be true regardless of the level of that work. In fact, pointless/unchallenging tasks seem to intensify her oppositional tendencies. She's incredibly stubborn.

So without acceleration, we'd have:

- power struggles over getting schoolwork done
- teachers unhappy with (under)performance
- a child who found extremely disruptive means of telling us she's bored... and with her, it's likely that it would involve socializing with classmates to the point of disrupting THEIR learning. (That is really what I meant about the homeschooling activities with chronological peers being a disaster)

WITH acceleration, at least we have eliminated the latter, and added "personal pride in accomplishments" to the Pro column. Even if she were a fifth grader doing fifth grade work, we'd be battling with her to get any of it done in the first place. She's just that kind of kid.
Ergo, acceleration is "least worst."


She hates the daily grind of it all-- and that would be true no matter what she was doing, assuming that it would involve a daily routine and expectations, and no doubt provide less novelty than she's hoping for.

Cirque de Soleil isn't running a school for gifted children, I mean. LOL!

So yes, anything she can weasel out of, she's almost certainly going to give it the old college try, at least occasionally... particularly writing (her weakest skill set), or anything that looks like "practice" or repetition.

Just because the work is more challenging/appropriate doesn't intensify the, er-- weaseling. (This is a HUGE part of why I say that we can definitely seem to the uninitiated like complete "tiger" parents; she tends to need a bit of "push" parenting in a general sense.)
The thing is, she gets along just fine with ANY peer group, so that wasn't much of a consideration. Besides, she has exposure to same-age peers in other venues.


Hopefully something in there is useful as you think about all of this. You aren't alone in wrestling with these choices.
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Perhaps you might take into account how well your child's personality and drive lend themselves to independent study. For mathematics in particular, there are a lot of options for distance learning that a school can implement without necessarily placing a child physically into a situation with classmates 3-7 years older than themselves. The PP is absolutely right about math being unusual in that it can frequently be "decoupled" from the rest of the curricular core that way.

For kids that can do IS, subject acceleration in math isn't that hard to continue in the later grades. Mine isn't one of those, and it sounds as though maybe yours isn't either (socially inclined and not internally motivated/independent).

The Developing Math talent book is extremely, hugely big on giving the EXPLORE. They have a whole chapter on what to do with the results.

Cricket2 - The Explore sounds like an interesting option and it would be unlikely for him to be at the top of their testing level. Without additional acceleration, DS7 will be studying 5th grade math with enrichment (4th grade GT curriculum) as a 3rd grader next year. If he accelerated any further, he will have to take Algebra as a 5th grader, which would be difficult to schedule.

HowlerKarma - ROFL. Aren't these kids incredible? Often times it takes more time and effort to figure out how much less to do that it would have taken to just produce an honest effort. I hear what you say about independent study. While DS7 loves to read and learn other things independently (without interference), I just don't see him being happy in a corner working math by himself on the computer.

Tallulah - I read a couple of chapters of the Developing Math talent book online. I am debating about buying it. She raises some interesting points, but I am not sure that I completely agree.

I don't think acceleration is always no good for children. It depends. If your son likes math, he may consider solving math problems a funny thing, not a burn. My daughter interests in math a lot. She usually does math exercises online for fun. These beestar worksheets are all timed and there are many kids using it. So it is quite challenging if her name wants to appear on the honor roll. Maybe your son can have a try with the Gifted Talented Math program. Don't worry too much. He will be fine with the math acceleration thing.
Lisa

Howler! Are you sure my son isn't related?? Although he does the screeching, not me. He has to complain about his homework, every day for at least a 1/2 hr before he gives up and just does it. Often, his tantrum takes longer than the work!

The funny part is, that he'll complain mightily about his geometry, then be seen playing math game on the computer an hour later. For him, I swear it's the lack of control that pisses him off. He's more than happy to do it, he just doesn't want anyone telling him he has to!

You have described my 5 yr old! I know its all about control but how do I get him to have an attitude adjustment? He loves to read. He loves numbers.. wemakes up addition and subtraction "games" for me to see if I know the answers lol...I change them to multiplication games. He loves science as well. But to get him to sit down and practice writing or to read to me (he reads to himself and can tell me what the book was about) is a chore

Frannieandejsom,

I'd guess that he hates practicing handwriting and reading aloud because those things are boring, slow and don't feed his intellectual curiosity, and they are much more subject to criticism ("That word isn't pronounced that way. This letter is formed like this, not like that."

Have you tried incorporating things that are fun or that he is excited about into the writing and reading practice? My son, who finds writing physically painful and incredibly difficult, was more than happy to write me pages of mystery clues to find "hidden treasure" or "secret messages" around the house. For the reading aloud, maybe you could ask him to find a paragraph that talks about something that he thinks is cool that he thinks you might not know. Or have him read poetry, like Shel Silverstein, where the sound it makes reading aloud enhances the experience, or passages that tell a funny story, so he can make you laugh.

Unless what you are really trying to teach is compliance - which is not always bad skill to have - but don't expect him to enjoy these things, or be happy about doing them, then.

aculady..
Thank you for those suggestions! No I don't want compliance per say (although listening skills need improvement as well). I want to bring out the creative, expressive and funny child that he is.

Sheila

Oh my.

I could have written that, too. Some days she does the majority of the screeching (punctuated by stomping, hair flipping, and pointed sighing).

That entire "tantrum takes longer than the work" aspect is pretty amazing to see in action, isn't it??

Her personality is such that I simply do not worry about "crushing" her innate drive. Not possible, dude.

I do worry tremendously about the strength of that oppositional streak, though-- because being non-compliant just for the sake of contrariness earns a lot of bad things in life.

I figure if we aren't successful in getting her to understand the wisdom of tempering that impulse, someone with a lot less personal attachment to her is eventually going to do it for us, and it's bound to be a lot more traumatic. But I'm just a dumb adult. What do I know?