Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional lack of motivation and/or attention problems?

Wow, I never put it together about the 45 minute showers being an ADHD thing! My DD has used a kitchen timer when taking showers, that worked really well for her (and us).

Eldertree, I think a life without meds may not be so bad...After reading that the brain keeps developing til age 26 (particularly the part that involves executive function - planning, organization, time management etc), I am very hopeful that with a little bit of understanding, some diet modifications and some support with coping strategies through college, most of these issues will resolve themselves as the EFs develop. We may end up trying the meds as a last resort but I am really hoping to avoid it.

We don't even have a basement so that's not an option for DD lol!!! Actually, when I was a teen, my mom told me not to stress or worry, that I could just live in a trailer on her property if I couldn't find my way in the world. The fear of that scenario kicked my b*t into high gear!!!!

HAdn't heard that about executive functioning developing well into the twenties. Good to know! Even if it is far too late for my husband...

Hey, those are rough adjustment years even without any ADD/ADHD issues.

4th/5th is when many gifted kids experience a total... hmmm.... not sure what to call it. "Identity crisis" seems pretty strong. But anyway, about age 9-10, they seem to go through this phase where, man... if their HEADS weren't attached... well, you know.


Then in middle school, about age 11-13, they start riding that hormonal/social roller-coaster from Hades.

Good times.

_____________________________

As far as coping strategies go, I have known quite a few ADD/ADHD collegians that were unmedicated and relied on other coping strategies/scaffolding to help them. That can definitely work. It basically means establishing an iron-clad routine, and then "hanging" additional responsibilities/commitments from that routine in time/space. That way you can keep track of everything, have temporal/spatial "checkpoints" so that essentials don't get forgotten, etc.

It's roughly the equivalent of cultured OCD-- but productive, if that makes sense. ("I closed the front door behind me as I came inside, so now I need to put my keys on the hook and check to make sure I locked the door. Because I closed the front door, so I have to do those other things now-- they belong together.")

And yes to executive function development continuing into young adulthood! Age 24-26 is about where that peaks for most people. It always tickled me no end when I'd meet those super-flakey freshman as juniors and seniors again, and realize that they had somehow become responsible young adults in the interim. It was like alchemy.

Thanks Nik. I feel better just knowing that other kids have these thoughts too.

And thanks to everyone who posted on this thread -- its really helpful to hear about others' experiences.

Understanding DS is still a work in progress, but I do feel I'm learning!

In the short run, especially, a higher value reinforcer can certainly change behavior in a kid with ADHD. There is even a study that shows that when the 'time to reward' is short, ADHD kids will perform as well on tasks as other kids, and they fall apart when the 'time to reward' is long.

I see ADHD as all about 'harnessing focus.' It's hard work, and makes sense to me that a kid would be willing to work extra hard for an extra good reward. What I don't know is how well a child with ADHD would get practiced at harnessing focus and and lower the amount of sheer will power. To me ADHD looks like a 'Dyspraxia' of harnessing focus. Of course all kids improve with practice, and some kids with ADHD would probably 'get the knack' and not have to put such a heroic effort in, while other kids wouldn't really progress fast enough that the increasing demands of progressing up the educational ladder would always require heroic effort.

-said the blind man reporting on the elephant
((wink))
Grinity

Never to late - see Flylady thread! I have personal proof of this.

DS14 tried this one. I told him that while it may be true that he knew the Math itself, his grade was a reflection of how well he was able to understand and execute the teacher's directions, and that in itself is a key school skill that needs time to develop. I think the NHA is a good way to get kids to take an interest in grades provided that the fit is reasonable. If the work being done in his classroom is just miles below his readiness level, then it's up to the parents to make something change.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Hi Grinity.

Thanks for your comments. I like the "dyspraxia of harnessing focus" description. It fits in with Eldertree's comment that her DD has a certain amount of energy for "paying attention" and once it is used up, she can become cranky and unfocussed. I see this with my DS too. I am still going to talk to the pediatrician about medication, or if she's not convinced, maybe further testing for ADHD.

The tangible rewards (extra screen time) plus the Nurtured Heart Approach are helping. I also think that for him success breeds success -- he's much more willing to "make the heroic effort" if he feels that he is doing well.

As to your other comment, I don't know what his "readiness level" is -- it seems to be an ever moving target.

For math, he excels in logic and "word problems", but he is less adept with some of the spatial concepts (volumes, fractions, etc). He also needs to work on grammar (lots of noun and verb accords in written French!). He has certainly not "mastered" the grade 5 curriculum, so I wouldn't see acceleration as a solution. There is no gifted programming where we live.

The thing that doesn't work for him at school is that it seems to be almost all boring, drill-type activities, and very little real thinking. And I'm sad to say that the grade 6 curriculum looks very similar to grade 5. Highschool here starts in grade 7, so I'm hoping that the work gets more interesting then.

I'm trying to give him some "thinking" outside school hours but its hard when we are already busy with the "boring" homework and all the other daily life stuff.

How much repeat of 5th grade will there be in 6th grade? Maybe your standard of mastery isn't realistic? Maybe the school sees it as a 'process?' to be repeated over and over?

It hard because the elementary school years are all about 'can you do this? how about this?' - abstract thinking is believed to start about 6th/7th grade - and slowly at that.

Is there a way to compact the curriculum, so he can fulfill the requirements quickly and have more time for 'independent study?'

Are there alternative schools available?
Is homeschooling a possibility? Online schooling at home? Online schooling at school?

Tests like MAP are great for seeing what his true readiness level is. Try signing up as a homeschooler.

Good luck,
Grinity

I think you have to 'over-rule' him on this one. Meet in secret if possible, but the teacher needs to be cued that he's in the wrong classroom during that hour. If you need to give DS notice that you have an independent perspective and will be talking to the teacher, that's fine too - you'll get a chance to praise his ability to handle his strong feeling while he has a tantrum but doesn't X,Y or Z.
g