Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy grade skip?

It's not like I haven't done this before...but for another child (dd4), different school scenario, etc.

Ds10 seems certainly ready to try for (much) harder stuff in both language arts and math. He is not getting 'straight A's' so much anymore, pretty much completely due to organizational issues which are not major; I have been trying to let him deal with this a bit on his own. He still does quite well despite never having any of his stuff .
He worries a great deal when he doesn't get an A (anything that is not an A is 'probably an F', according to him ~ bit dramatic...).
I am trying to let him get ok with not getting As or close to As on everything.

He has not been asking to skip a grade up until recently, but I think after getting about 1/2 way through the EPGY beginning algebra course, he might be feeling like grade 6 is going to be a lot of the same-old-same-old, plus bullying. (He says he's heard 6th grade is the worst for bullying). I am not sure 7th would be much different than 6th for the bullying, but maybe for math and language arts it would work better for him. Anyway, lately he has been asking about it, and yesterday made very clear that he wants to skip if at all possible. I really never said that this would be much of a possibility, and again said about the same, but figure I might look into it.


How is 7th grade compared with 6th for new material? I think around here for math, pre-algebra is considered 'advanced', and I know he already knows all that...
Would a somewhat anxious kid do better with harder work, or beat himself up even more?
The main reason I would consider this is that when new concepts are being introduced he is soooo different about his work and his attitude than when the same old stuff is being re-run...

I don't think that one can really 'learn' organizational skills unless the school material is complex enough to warrant the use of organizational skills. Your son is still far away from High School and grades 'don't count' - so l think letting him try a skip is a great idea.

I also think that we learn to overcome anxiety by being in situations that make us anxious and solving the challenges. In a way, a skip that takes him into harder material might lessen the anxiety.

I think that each school district has to be different as far as how much repetition - is it possible to observe some 7th grade classrooms?

The biggest question is - would a building shift be required? My son skiped from 5th grade (lower school) no changing classes to 6th grade (middle school) with changing classes at a private school that looooooved 6-12 week long writing and diorama classes. That was a huge jump, and the needed thing, but I had to pretty much move way into his business and do 'organizational life support' a few hours every day. He's an only child, so it was fine once I got over my fears that he'd never take the reins back. LOL in retrospect. By 7th grade he was back in charge of his own stuff with only occasional deer in headlights - 'I can't start writing this complicated paper because I'm afraid I'll fail' weekends that did require a parent to say: 'You're grounded until you finish your homework.' Even that is entirely gone now (he's at boarding school and has the best study skill of any of the boys.)

My perspective is that if a skip is needed, then it needs to be done, or at leasts good faith efforts to be made. If the material is below his readiness level, then a skip is needed. If the school has 'end of year tests' and will allow him to take both the 6th and 7th version that might be very convincing. Also - above level testing such as SAT or ACT or Explore might help advocate. What is the local school district used to seeing scores for? Ya gotta speak their language. Even 450s on the SAT at age 10 will and should impress the school folks. Just the fact that a 10 year old was brave enough to try it, willing to give up a Saturday, and able to sit still for that long is impressive.

I would probably address the bullying separately if there is a chance that the school would do something about, and not propose skipping as a way out of that. After 2 years we left that private school due to the schools unwillingness to "man up" and handle the bullying of one child. The public school with a skip was much better for my son, and they had a very complete policy and took bullying very seriously....they even had a spot on the website where anonymous reporting of what the kids were observing was available.

Love and More Love,
grinity

Long time middle school teacher here so hopefully I can help somewhat about the curriculum. But it is very state specific and also depends on whether or not your school is a K-6 with a 7-8 somewhere else, or like my school a 6-12th grade. It also depends on whether your 6th grade is a self contained class.

Overall, the difference in curriculum isn't much between 6th and 7th. However, the way it is delivered is often very different. At my school, 6th graders have 3 teachers a day, 7th graders have 7 teachers a day in 45 min periods. They rotate classes, are expected to be organized and have it all together- turn in their work with one reminder, write in their agenda daily etc. We explicitly teach these skills along with study strategies and homework strategies in 6th grade.

We also often place 7th graders in Algebra. I have one 7th grader taking Geometry this year with the high school students. Because we have a 6-12 campus, that's easy. It's also easy because we are an arts school and ALL of the students are placed in arts classes based on ability. So it doesn't draw one ounce of attention to put a 7th grader in class with 10th graders. However, in a different setting, this would be more challenging.

All of that said, depending on the structure of your school, 6th grade is kind of like Kindergarten again. It's a review of skills for many students and it's also about "learning how to do school" in a different way. There isn't anything particularly challenging in the 6th grade curriculum that would leap out at me as something that would create a hole.

Lovely! I hope you are very proud of yourself for following an unconventional path and finally getting the goodies! Beautiful to watch and cheer from here!
Grinity

The first thing I would ask myself is "Is his reason for the skip to avoid the grade with the worst bullying problem, or is it really a need for additional challenge?" Once you are certain that it isn't because of the bullying, then I would definitely weigh my options more. I agree that while the work might not be that much harder in 7th vs. 6th, the expectations as far as organization are definitely going to be stepped up in 7th, so if he is having a hard time with that now, would you want to put him in a situation where he might struggle with it even more? Just a few things to think about that came to my mind. I have a child that skipped a grade this year, and there is so much to take in to the big picture.

thanks everyone for all the very thoughtful responses!

I am very much at the beginning of this process, if I go through with it at all.
Dottie, I kwym, and it's very much on my mind -- he's no pg kid who absolutely needs a skip, hands down. And there are lots of bright kids all around, a good school system, etc.

We haven't had any new testing lately, but his work in the algebra course, and finding almost nothing to do language arts-wise, besides read, has been whirring around in my brain this last couple of months...5th grade has seemed like a repeat of 3 and 4th for him, and I am not sure it is fair to do another 'repeat' kind of grade!

Grinity, thanks for reminding me about end-of-year tests, that is something I will keep in mind to mention (when I get to that bend in the road)

Thinking about the curriculum more, I was wondering how kids/schools deal with a subject like history where there isn't likely to be so much repetition..?

Yes, I need to delve more into what he is thinking about the bullying; generally there doesn't seem to be much if any at the school he is at, so that might be a good sign for the middle school, but I guess things change a lot with the 13 year olds. It would be 6/7/8 for middle and 9/10/11/12 for high school.

I've read here that boxing classes prevent bullying. LoL, not that way! Just that they give the kids a different posture, they carry themselves differently. Then again, what's the point of preventing bullying if you're going to have them get hit in the head on purpose? I talked to the sensei where I plan to send my boy to karate class about if the training might get my boy into mischief. He said some dojo's attract bullies and trouble makers but his attracted great kid's and taught discipline and self-respect and avoiding trouble and walking away and how to know the difference of when you can't walk away. And the part I was worried about was him getting karate training and roughhousing with kids at school thinking it's ok because all his karate friends thinks it's fun. The sensei said they train the kids to use different force with different people. He'll be less likely to play too rough with a weaker kid, not more likely. Of course these are my concerns about a future kindergarten kid and I got no advice for you on a middle schooler.
Make use of flylady's launch pad, lay out the clothes and pack the bag the night before, do boys like using day planners as much as girls do? Good luck escaping the groundhog day school year.

chris1234,

On the question of how to deal with subjects like history where there is not so much repetition, you can always find out what time period and major concepts are going to be covered in the skipped year and do independent reading during the current school year or over the summer to cover that span and those topics. Honestly, 6th grade history is not likely to be so intense or in-depth that it couldn't be covered in a few weeks of dedicated study by a gifted kid.

We've found that history does repeat itself, so to speak , at some point. Dd12 skipped 5th, which is the year they do US history. So, she had a lot of world history and no US until this year (8th) where they delve back into US history. It seems like every few years there is some spiraling back in history. She's done fine despite having missed the first go around of US history. Like the pp said, it isn't that much info for a gifted child to catch up on.

In most states you will see a three year rotation in history. 5th, 8th and 11th are US History (with government in 12th). It all comes back over and over! They may not go all the way back but it does spiral. For example, 7th grade is world history through the Reformation. The next time they do world history, they may start at middle ages and go forward from there.

Hi, yes, we are in fact waiting on more testing for ds, so I was thinking it would make sense to just hold off on any more requests to the school until that is done and we see how he does.

Had a good chat with ds this morning. At the dentist this morning, he was asked how he liked school, etc., and was saying how much harder 5th seemed than 4th. I didn't ask him about it then, but later while eating lunch, I asked, and he seemed to be thinking in terms of the organizational stuff, the amount of things to remember to do, etc. I told him I thought he was learning bit by bit but it would come gradually. I asked if he had thought about skipping in light of that. I don't think it had occurred to him, and really I hadn't put it this way either, but now he thinks it might make ok sense to have some repetitious academic material considering he has a ways to go organizationally....
I do still think there might be a skip in his future (7th?), but it seems like we need to deal with this year, now, and go from there!
Thanks again to all for the excellent and interesting points of view. As to the boxing or martial arts, ds has done that for a few years, but sort of petered out on the whole thing (well, got interested in other stuff). Frankly I think he does exude a decent level of confidence whether from that, or other experiences, but I don't typically think of him as the easy target.