Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments need attitude adjustment?

I was working with DD6 on her grade 1 math homework, really simple but she has to do the class work before she can do her CTY.

It was a number line that went from 0 to 20. She had to creat a number model (an equation). She had to describe in words how she worked it out, show the number model and also do a number word problem.

She wanted to do 7-8 (actually wanted to do 7-20 but there wasn't room to extend the number line that negative). She really wanted a negative number. So I let her do it and then we came up with a story that she bought a book for 8 dollars, only had 7 and owes the store and has negative one dollar.

She wanted to do it, but in my head I was thinking this is so in your face, you make me do this stupid math when you know I am doing the accelerated math. She got 4 on her report card for accuracy for math and speed of computation but got 3s for the rest because she doesn't explain her work. She seems to tell the teacher she just knows, which isn't acceptable.

Was shown an example of her "knowing" and what the rest of the kids did with 10-7. The rest of the kids said they had 10 things, took 7 away and counting the remaining to get 3. DD wrote, I know 10-5 is 5 (since 10-7 knowing is not acceptable) and 7 is 2 more than 5 so I must take 2 away from the other side and get 3. They thought this was a problem because she couldn't explain. And this is a teacher of gifted students....

Ren

Hi Ren,
Welcome to new math. That's just how they do it. Sit down with the teacher, and politely ask what are the acceptable answers and then hothouse your DD.

Whose attitude seems like it needs adjusting? Yours? Your daughters? Your Teachers?

I don't think your daughter will be faulted for using negative numbers - it's a possiblity, but better to test the waters and find out than assume it's not allowed.

You can also call up the text book company and ask them to get someone on the phone and explain it to you.

It is, for example, ok to say, in some rooms, 'I consulted a table of math facts' or 'I counted buttons.' It does make my skin crawl, but is this really the hill you want to die on? In the long run I think this is just one of those unavoidable fads.

((hugs))
Grinity

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment. I used to teach math and science (to high school students, so I understand that it's a slightly different situation.) I used to make them show or explain EVERYTHING, and the reason I started doing that was because of an extremely gifted young man who came through my class one year. He had a talent for Physics, and a lot of the problems came to him almost instinctively. About halfway through the year, though, his grade in the class started dropping. So I started paying closer attention to how he was doing his classwork. As it turned out, this incredibly smart kid was so good at this stuff, he wasn't taking the time to work through the steps - while he was getting the right answer, he didn't fully understand how he got it. It was no problem until the problems started getting a little harder. The class built on itself throughout the year, so not having a thorough understanding of the ins and outs of the problem started to hurt him after a while, when he could no longer breeze through the steps and come up with the answer in his head. So I started having him explain everything to me in minute detail - no more skipping steps. He HATED it at first. But now he is in college at Virginia Military Institute. He recently emailed me to thank me for "making my life miserable," as he put it, because being familiar with that fundamental (although tedious) thought process is making his math and engineering classes MUCH easier for him.
Anyway, my point is that although it seems like a waste, there is actually some logic behind forcing her to explain it. I'm sure it's frustrating for her, but hopefully it will help her in the long run.

Treecritter - I agree that when a child is working at their 'readiness level' that making a child slow down and show the steps is a wonderful gift a teacher can give. The problem that Wren is outlining is a bit different in that
1) this new math really is weird, and
2) that Wren's dd is working so very far below her readiness level.

As time goes by, trying to Advocate so that one doesn't have to do the 'easy' homework and can go straight to the appropriate homework is worth the hassle. It depends on the situation.

Smiles,
Grinity

Sigh. We had the same problem. Our child's K teacher was convinced he didn't understand basic addition and subtraction because he didn't explain things like 2+1 in the way she wanted. She wouldn't tell us what that way was either, and she wouldn't believe that he could just know the same way that you or I just know that it is. This was also a teacher of gifted children.

My experience was that many teachers of the gifted are really teachers of the moderately gifted but have little understanding of how profoundly different a child who is EG/PG can be from their "typical" MG student.

Sorry, no advice, other than to say I agree with Grinity that the real issue is why she has to do work that they know is below her level.

I know what you mean, treecritter, but if the child in question has worked through from the beginning, they used to have ten, rove seven and count what's remaining, then they moved on to really understanding, and then they moved on again to tricks like estimation. Surely if the child's showing their steps for estimation, that should count for showing your work?

Like, once you've understood division as a sharing of equal parts and have moved on to having memorised the facts to use as tools in more complex problems you're allowed to say "10 divided by three is three with one remainder, bring the 2 down, twelve divided by three is four" instead of "I have ten blocks and give one each to Carol, Bob and Ranjit, three times. At the end I still have one left over". KWIM? We use Singapore math and each new type of problem is introduced with objects (sharing apples between three friends), then blocks (sharing blocks between groups), then numerals (dividing). They are not expected to use the apples between friends once they have mastered the chapter and moved on.

Not sure if this applies to your situation, but from what I can see in the math books, the explaining of the material like addition, subtraction, number sense, and multiplication takes place over months! Weeks and weeks of each section. Depending on the teacher/class/school, the unit tests expect answers that are only related to that unit. It is not assumed you know other things. I've found the unit material so very broken down, even I didn't know what it was asking any more. How to add or multiply is chopped up into such tiny chunks... (sigh)

I tried playing a game with my DC. Pretend the teacher is a 3 year old and you have to show the teacher how to do the math.

Sorry. I'm not much help. But I hear you.

Sigh....this isn't an example of "new math", this is an example of misunderstood new math. Yes, a child should be able to explain how they got an answer--but only when given work that is at level. Asking a child who is several years above to explain how they "got" an answer to a problem like 10-7 is like asking a proficient reader to explain how they know that w-h-a-t spells what (I choose this example because it isn't phonetically regular: once you know it...you know it. You can't sound it out to "show" understanding).

I'm sure the teacher is well intentioned. There is a lot to be said for being able to explain rather than just memorize routines, but for teachers who are transitioning in their own understanding of what this means, there is too often a misapplication of the ideas. I cringe to think that I was that teacher a few years back, but.....


Two possible thoughts:

1) Ask the teacher to let your child do the same work with different numbers (since it appears that the type of work must not be negotiable). Given numbers that can't be calculated mentally by your child, there will actually be something that she can show/explain.

2) If appropriate numbers are not an option, ask your child to show/tell how she would explain 10-7 to a child who didn't know how to subtract. Often that makes more sense to a student than trying to explain to the teacher (who obviously already knows that 10-7 is three). It may help to ask your child how they would explain 10-7 if they weren't able to use mathematical language (minus/subtract/equal). Sometimes just the act of translating the equation into different language will demonstrate the understanding for the teacher, and for your child it can become a language activity--kind of like the game "taboo" where you have to get someone to say something but can't use any of a particular group of words as clues.

I don't have a "useful" suggestion, but watching this New Math video always cheers me up.



I thought we were making headway on the "showing the teacher the answer they want to see" issue, but then dh showed dd how you can do division with negative remainders. Oh well...

Been there Wren. Is 1st grade same thing happened with us. My son would add/sub in his head but was penalized for not showing work. So dumb. If the kid can get the answer in their head then showing work is a waste.
And yes this was a "gifted" class.
We took him out and put him in Catholic school.
Academics not great but he can do the math any way he wants as long as he gets the answer they don't care how he does it. So that is a plus.

Unlike you making your child do her HW 1st b4 CTY we do the oppisite. I have him do CTY 1st.
My feeling is CTY is more important because he is learning.
If the HW is remedial work then it can wait lol
And yeah it is sad we have to force them to do this waste of time remedial HW just so they don't get in trouble. That is very hard to swallow.