Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Would testing help?

Would that that were the case! It would make things much easier (except not, because 5th grade math includes a review of 4th grade concepts, IYKWIM). Honestly, she doesn't know the end-of-3rd material yet, because she's never been taught the terminology and isn't inherently mathy enough to solve the more-complex problems without ever having seen them demonstrated. She'd be delighted to be taught ahead if that got her more harder work at the end, but not if it meant worse drudgery at the end.

We got the link to her online math textbook at parent-teacher conferences, and her eyes lit up, and she said "I could work through the entire book at home!" and got out a piece of paper and started writing. At the end of the first page, she suddenly looked up and said "If I do all of it at home, I'm just going to have to do it again at school," put her pencil down, and never looked at it again.


No inclusion classrooms. Our district does some weird sort of clustering for special ed, so while there's sometimes one kid who needs a speech pullout, it's uncommon.

We've got 3 classes per grade, but each class is on the same schedule. So all the kids in a given grade have lunch at the same time, and specials at the same time. It's hard to schedule cross-grade stuff, because if Class 1 has specials when Class 2 has math, you either end up missing specials or missing math. And in DD's class, their daily schedule has 3 separate math times, so a kid pulled into that class would likely only hit one, and a kid pulled out would have to ignore the math being taught and work independently.


Yep. DD had her friend down the street over to play on Monday afternoon. This friend is 6 months older, but a grade younger. DD decided that teaching her friend multiplication would be a great activity. Needless to say, it was frustrating for both of them.

The thing that really bugged me socially was to hear DD say "[Best Friend] is not very good at multiplication." Which is not true - that little girl is very bright, and one of the top kids in her class, and I'd guess her teacher would assess her as being very good at multiplication. But she's not like DD is, and it took 3 months for DD's assessment of her to go from "she's really smart, and better than I am." I was hoping that kids 18 months older would give her a run for her money, and it's just not enough.

With the not wanting to break the rules, can you get her teacher to tell her that it's OK to work ahead during math, do different homework, etc?

<We got the link to her online math textbook at parent-teacher conferences, and her eyes lit up, and she said "I could work through the entire book at home!" and got out a piece of paper and started writing. At the end of the first page, she suddenly looked up and said "If I do all of it at home, I'm just going to have to do it again at school," put her pencil down, and never looked at it again.>

If she was ahead in math, since you don't think the SA would work, would they let her work independently? If so, maybe the trick would be for her to do self-paced work in math so she doesn't have to listen to stuff she already knows. I agree about asking the school for ideas. And yes, for a SA the principal should plan ahead and arrange for the two math times to overlap. Ours did it, although we have 4-5 classes per grade. It takes a bit of shuffling but I doubt she spent more than 30 minutes on the scheduling after the decision to SA was made.

Remember, meeting her needs will likely require 3 things, enrichment, increased pace, and increased content. I bet she knows more than you think she does of the math curriculum than you realize

Cat

Oh, I think that she either already knows, or could know with minimal effort, the vast majority of it. She just doesn't know now material she's never been exposed to.

I don't think it would be at all difficult to get a SA for math for next year, if DD wanted it. (I think she could get through all of 5th grade, and maybe more, by the end of the summer, if she really wanted it. When that girl puts her mind to something, she really flies.) I just don't know if that would improve the situation, or if she'd still be bored, but also be conspicuous.

Yes, you can't expect a kid to know something they have never been exposed to.

As for it making a difference, it may or may not. I think Dottie has had luck with a skip and then SA with her DS. And my DS8 is in 3rd grade but goes to 5th for math. He is HG+ based on the little testing we have done, and the 2 year SA has done wonders. Is the 5th grade math a slow for him, sure, but it is much much better compared to the 3rd grade math, and the teachers are much better (by 5th here they have to be specialists in the subject area, and they are great at keeping him challenged). He is a generally happy kid, but last year was tears over homework nearly every night, and a lot of anger and frustration when he came home from school. Much better this year. And if he tests high enough on an algebra readiness test at the end of this year, he will be able to skip another year. He will have to go to the Jr. High either way next year, unless we move him to computer based learning. We are all waiting to see how he does this year before we make any decisions.

I think it is important to consider the social stuff, but really, your daughter will likely be conspicuous because of her intelligence regardless (just my thoughts, obviously you know your daughter).

Cat

And that's my issue - DD just isn't that kid who picks up math by spontaneous generation. She was never the tiny child reading Harry Potter - she entered kindergarten not reading at all. She did not talk early, she does not like puzzles, she needs lots of sleep and dislikes being involved in too many activities. She's not overexcitable, doesn't do independent research, has no particular interests, sits quietly, and feels the need to "check her work" against a neighbor - even to the extent of changing her own right answer to the neighbor's wrong one. If I look at Ruf's LOG, she's far more Level One than anything else (which IMHO says more about Dr. Ruf than about DD, but people here seem to put stock in her).

I don't know that everyone here puts a lot of stock in Ruf's LOG. My eldest fits clearly into level 4 of her LOG and, while she probably is a HG kid, she's isn't one of those "wow, I've never met a kid like that!" type of kids.

Either way, based upon your assessment and descriptor of her, I'd agree with Dottie that I would definitely do an IQ test before considering further acceleration. It does sound like her current set-up isn't working well for her, but I like having as much data as possible to make sure that I am making a well supported decision before I make it. I believe that is why the Iowa Acceleration Scale considers an ability test to be a must before considering a skip.

Like others have said, if you underestimating her, it might be a good wake up call for you as well and IQ scores might qualify her for programs like DYS.

Maybe the "here" is referring to a particular area of the US. Ruf's levels, in my opinion, do not fit well those kids that for whatever reason were not into academics early on.

Ah, that makes sense about "here" and that describes my younger dd who wouldn't have fit into her levels as nicely as my oldest. Her IQ scores are much higher than one would expect if expecting a gifted child to look highly interested in reading and academics early on.

I don't put any stock in Ruf either. I think her market is parents of very young (2-3ish) precocious children who are looking for answers without doing testing.