Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy discipline for gifted children

I've discovered that traditional discipline methods don't work on my son. Time out, for example, has become a time for him to sit in a chair and make up a story, which he enthusiastically tells me after I let him out. I'm glad he's using his imagination, but it's not a negative thing for him and therefore does not deter the bad behavior. He finds loopholes in every single rule I make. Last night I tucked him in and told him to stay in bed (he has a habit of finding any excuse to get up). Fifteen minutes later I found him playing with his star wars figures....still in bed. When I confronted him about it, he said, "I am in bed, like you told me!" I told him before he went to school yesterday to tell his teacher he was ready for his AR test. He didn't take the test. When I asked him why, he said, "You didn't tell me to take it TODAY!" He sneaks up on me. He has this ability to start with a minor violation that I either barely notice, or I don't think is significant enough to do anything about. Then over days or weeks, it slowly gets worse and worse until I suddenly realize that he's acting like a brat and I have allowed it!
He also tends to be overemotional, which I have heard is very common among gifted children. I mentioned the other day that our cat was getting old and he fretted all evening about how she might die soon - despite my reassuring him that she wasn't quite THAT old. If he misses one question on a test, he comes home near tears, even though I try not to stress him out about his grades.
Anyway, my point is, he's not a bad kid. But he has some discipline issues that do need to be addressed and so far I have been totally unsuccessful in trying to discipline him. Any tips on how to do this? Preferably without making him so emotional?

I'm guessing he's in early elementary - age 6-8 or so? As kids hit this age it doesn't work very well with most for parents to just issue lots of specific rules. Rules needs to be explained. Compromises need to be reached. You have to let some stuff go to focus on the big issues in life. To take your bedtime example it may be that you can allow quiet play with figures if he agrees to stay in bed. Work on problem solving together and developing solutions. Also, I would make sure that you are acknowledging his feelings. In the situation with the cat instead of trying to talk him out of feeling sad about her someday death, how about cuddling up with him and taking some time to help him through those feelings. It doesn't matter if she could live another twenty years, it is a really sad and hard thing for a kid to think about losing someone they love.

I would also look to help him find areas over which he can be in more control. I'm sure some will disagree, but I don't know that you need to be managing when he takes his AR test. That seems like something he and his teacher could work out.

If you have not already done so I'd suggest some reading about gifted kids might be helpful. Some of what you are describing like the sensitivity and perfectionism are par for the course for many gifted kids. This is a really good book and has information about discipline too. http://www.amazon.com/Parents-Guide.../ref=tmm_pap_title_0/185-5394982-3102366

This thread may be helpful. It's about the Nurtured Heart Approach which has been effective for some people here.
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/83954/1.html

That's two of the four parenting books I have. My total list is:
Parenting the Gifted Child
Transforming the Difficult Child
Smart Boys by Barbra Kerr
How to Talk so your kids will listen & Listen so your kids will talk

All great books, I'm sure. But I'm still not sure I'm prepared to discipline too good. I prefer researching on the net because the forum is dynamic and opinions are diverse allowing for a more 360 view of a situation. I like this topic. I know the "line in the sand" is really more of a range than a line. I mean really all we want out of children is that they use good manners and keep a good sense of humor, right! But the more active children have more chances to act up. Good Grief!

Sounds a lot like my son. The running joke in our house is that he's going to grow up to be a politician because he can take anything and twist it into knots. We have had long conversations about implied language and i've told him that since I know he is smart enough to understand the implied as well as the literal, he will be punished accordingly.

The punishment of choice? That would be no computer time. My son loves his computer and this simple rule motivates him most of the time.

I'm definitely buying "How to talk so your kids will listen & Listen so your kids will talk".

We are dealing with discipline issues right now with DD (age 4). She has to be the most stubborn child to ever come from this gene pool. And that is saying a lot because this gene pool is full of stubborn people!

And talking to her is like talking to a brick wall! But then she also shows such maturity and understanding. A few weeks ago she had a birthday party to go to and was very excited, but I had the times wrong and we missed the party. I felt so bad about it and thought for sure that I was in for a complete meltdown. Never happened. She accepted my apology and though clearly upset to miss the party she understood why. Even today when she had another invitation for another party she brought up the missed party, giving us an opportunity to talk about it which turned into people make mistakes and it is okay to make mistakes. No one is perfect nor should they try to be. She accepted this information but didn't like the idea of it relating to her. She still thinks she shouldn't make mistakes but at least we had a great discussion over it.

Yet this is the same child who will dig in her heels and absolutely not budge and is getting progressively worse with this attitude. So I'm hoping this book will help us overcome some of this.

It's like all the other decent parenting books, it tries to teach you how to sound more like a mother. How to rephrase what you're trying to say so you sound more stereotypically "mom". And the "transforming the difficult child" book also shows you how to sound like a better parent more than actually giving you advice on molding a better child. Probably good reference books to re-read. But nothing beats access to other real parents experience and discussions I guess. <3
Eta: flylady.com helps me feel like I'm acting more like a regular mom, thanks Grinity.
Eta: dh calls it if it's me I'm stubborn, if it's him he's persistent (rolls eyes)

Join the club! Since Gifted children don't develop at the regular pace, and their development is so 'each part of them at a different stage' then lots of techniques don't give the same result that they do for kids with more usual developmental paths. I think what happens eventually is that we try everything, and keep the parts that suit our families. We develop a 'mom gut' that can guide us, but until then we keep reading the books and thinking 'what's wrong with me that I can't make this work.' Newsflash: That doesn't help one bit!



Great Example. Don't worry that it isn't detering bad behavior though, think about it, even the most adversive punishments (spanking comes to mind) doesn't really deter future bad behavior. At the best 'punishments' in general make the punisher feel like they have done something, and relieve the guilt the punishee might have been feeling, but I haven't observed that they deter future bad behavior. Think back to yourself as a child...how often were you about to do something bad, but stopped yourself for fear of a punishment?

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He finds loopholes in every single rule I make. Last night I tucked him in and told him to stay in bed (he has a habit of finding any excuse to get up). Fifteen minutes later I found him playing with his star wars figures....still in bed. When I confronted him about it, he said, "I am in bed, like you told me!" I told him before he went to school yesterday to tell his teacher he was ready for his AR test. He didn't take the test. When I asked him why, he said, "You didn't tell me to take it TODAY!" He sneaks up on me. He has this ability to start with a minor violation that I either barely notice, or I don't think is significant enough to do anything about.
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This is really common. At our house we had to make a rule 'no lawyering' which meant that DS was expected to take my perspective and obey even if he could think of a wordplay to escape. I had to learn to make a flat stoney face so that whenever he broke the 'no lawyering' rule I could project the idea 'You are responsible for taking my perspective and following the spirit of the law.'

It may take a while for a child to learn to take the parental perspective, but it is such a valuable lesson. If the child shows any humor or 'I got 'ya!' attitude, then they are old enough to start being held accountable. It's ok to have a rule 'no disrespect' that includes to making fun of Mom when she is being serious.



Welcome to the club. I like the book 'Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook' because it helps you write up 'house rules,' encourages you to enforce 'even the small infractions' and mainly, teaches parents to teach the rules by praise.


I wouldn't call this a disipline issue, just a question of temperment. I believe that the more exposure he gets to challenging academic environments and handling small sadnesses the sooner he will learn to handle them calmly. Again, praise every time you see even the slightest hint of self-management. Teach self-management when he isn't riled up. Point out when you are using self-management. Let your child overhear you being proud of how he exercised self-management while talking to other people. It's slow, but it worked for us.

The best part is that you aren't alone. Not all gifted children act like this (some have older siblings that polish off the corners quite nicely before anyone has a chance to notice them, some are just born that way) but lots of them do at times. You can tell us about how frustrating it is - and we won't blame you. We'll understand.

I've had elementary school teachers tell me to my face that 'we understand that he's like this because you have a career/work outside the home/only had one child/had him later in life.' Classic association/causation confusion - one of the great human misunderstandings - but NOT HELPFUL. Even though my son is now 14 and doing very nicely, thank you, I still resent being blamed for his behavior, and I still resent myself for being such easy prey in the 'blame mom' game.

BTW: I'm not a fan of the 'How to Talk' books for kids who do already make connections and see how things work, because the very nature of the 'little talks' is so ambiguous for our kids. One one hand they love being the center of attention and the intimacy. On the other hand they build a self-image as 'the kid with the behavior problem.' There is what you say -negative, negative, negative. And what you do - eye contact, hand on shoulder, don't pick up the phone, focus - delicious, slurp, slurp.

For lecuture while the child isn't breaking any rules, you might try but I would be sure to use it only when things are going well.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Thanks for the help, everyone! I'll take all of this into account and take a look at some of the suggested books.

Best advice I ever received when my kids were little was from my pediatrician. "If it's not a hill worth dying on, then don't start a battle. And if it is, don't stop no matter what."

Grinnity, the "raising a thinking child" says the program takes six weeks, is it a workbook or seminar?
Kcab, what does "setting limits for your strong-willed child" cover?

Funny, lol. The boy has started wetting himself since the new baby got here. The hubby asked why I was letting him run around naked. I explained what was happening and said, that's how I broke him last time. ( obviously I meat house-broke ) the eavesdropping boy became concerned. "I don't want to be broke."

Strong-willed is the nice way to put it. How about, "a strong sense of entitlement." and "will not be ignored.". Ds is showing early signs of my stubbornness and the hubby's persistence. All I can think of is lots of structure and routine. If he's going to dig his heels in at least it will be defending the rules. It's still gonna cause drama with some teachers and peers no matter how we proceed.
If the "raising a thinking child" does what it says and teaches them to listen closer to what people are saying and pay attention to what other people are feeling I'm going to use it on the hubby.

kcab - that's actually a really good point. I suppose I should stop thinking in terms of "punishment" and start thinking in terms of "getting him to stop."

If your style of timeouts are "getting him to stop" then I think you are doing really well!

Now there is a part of us that 'wants blood' - so my best advice for that is to step in sooner and call the time out while the offense is minor enough that you aren't seething over it. Make sense?

Best Wishes,
Grinity