Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Why can't teachers be more organized?

I've been getting more and more frustrated with my older son's fourth grade experience. It seems like I spend an unreasonable amount of time helping him not with his work, but with organizing his work and determining what he is supposed to be doing. He does have an agenda and I would say he's about 90 - 95% accurate and complete with it. Sometimes he forgets to bring a book or assignment home, but overall he does OK.

But issues come up. He'll have it written down that there's a science test, but it's not always obvious what the topic is. And there's not always advance notice. He has a spelling test every Friday and he doesn't get the words until Monday. They are supposed to post them online but they don't, they just leave a broken link. He's an exceptionally poor speller and Tuesdays are very busy, so it's a little tight. He also has a grammar test every Friday, but there is no text. We just have to go off the worksheet(s) he did earlier in the week. So the resources at his disposal are limited to the worksheet examples. Occasionally some information about something will be posted online, but it's very hit or miss. They send a weekly update home, but I get it on Tuesday or Wednesday - halfway through the week! These little things add up and the result is that his homework requires a lot of supervision and administrative effort on my part.

I've been drinking the Cool Aid and going along with the idea that kids need to learn to be organized to be prepared for high school and college. But I'm just not buying that anymore. I am certain that my son is learning less because instead of discussing topics with him, I am sorting through worksheets and notebooks and trying broken links.

I recently finished a grad degree and taught some undergraduate classes in a different discipline at the same time. In EVERY course I taught or took there was a syllabus that listed the topics in the order of presentation, the number of tests and the topics to be included (test dates were usually provided too), what the expectations were for homework, how grades would be calculated, and what texts would be used. There was always a rough timeline, and often a very precise schedule. Every instructor, myself included, also posted this online and kept it current. Topics for exams and homework assigments were also posted online. It would be almsot unthinkable for an instructor not to do all this and the syllabus was required of all instructors. So clearly, writing stuff in an agenda and keeping trach of test dates that are moving targets are NOT a skills that are required for success in college.

So why don't elementary school teachers do this for each subject? Prior to this year's public school experience I sympathized with teachers' gripes about dealing with students whose parents don't support their learning at home, but I don't anymore. They make it too hard. I am a well-educated, very involved, very knowledgeable parent with a manageable work schedule. My kids are smart and have had the advantage of excellent educations prior to this year and have recieved a lot of enrichment and exposure to topics at home. But I am starting to consider my son's public school education to be an imposition on my time that I resent. I can't imagine how a parent with less ability, resources, time, and support would handle all this stuff.

I have to admit, I am probably only talking about 5 - 20 minutes a day. But if I had that time back to spend on piano or some math enrichment or even just folding laundry with my kids, I would consider it a better use of time.

I am really surprised that elementary teachers are subject to standards so much lower than university level instructors. Why is this? Wouldn't it make more sense to give young children MORE help staying organzied, not less?

ETA: I know I sound ridiculously cranky. I think it's the ratio of getting organized time to learning time that's got me so worked up. My son is learning almost nothing at school, so I'm frustrated that I'm obligated to support it.

I hear you. There doesn't seem to be much coordination between my 8 year olds teachers. Its frustrating. The math, language arts, reading, and homeroom teachers all use different organizational systems and types of binders and planners. Some days dd has way too much homework and other days she doesn't have any. The homeroom teacher wants dd to do the regular spelling homework, but she is actually in a spelling group with a different grade that has its own homework. So far dd has been good natured about all this and wanting to please everyone, but I am starting to think that the homeroom teacher at least is taking advantage of her good nature. The situation could bring out the worst aspects of perfectionism and the desire to please others. I don't like the idea that my 8 year old goes to bed several nights a week feeling like she hasn't gotten everything done.

Conferences are next week. So hopefully this can improve.

Jane, I don't think you are being cranky. Elementary school teachers go to school to learn how to teach. University instructors often have no background in teaching before they teach university classes. So I would expect the elementary school teacher to be more organized too!

Hi Cricket3,

I agree with you 100% - that is the way it is, and according to current practices my standards are unreasonably high. But why? I've done it - it's really easy to just make a list of this stuff. I don't understand why it's not required of all elementary teachers. I think in the medium to long term it would save the teachers time and the benefit to kids and parents would be huge.

That's an interesting question. I really can't answer at the elementary level but I am in academia so I can tell you the perspective from that point of view. Most professors I know have more time to prepare for their classes. If you are at a big university they might have 1-2 classes a semester and if they've been around long enough they've already taught those classes a couple of times and have all their notes prepared ahead of time. They also have a herd of grad students to correct homework/tests for them and answer students' questions.

An elementary teacher would be with his/her students all day and have to do all prep at night. Also if schools are expecting them to differentiate within the classroom a set syllabus wouldn't work because in theory they'd have to vary this every year. I can definitely understand your frustration but I'm not sure if comparing elementary teachers to grad school professors is quite the same.

I see this as more of a once a quarter deal, with minor maintenance weekly. I have done it and I don't think it is an overly time-consuming task (especially since elementary teachers are following district and school manadated curriculums, aren't they?). It may be somewhat time consuming to learn how to update a website, but I think that should be a required skill. I may be underestimating the time required - esp. since each teacher is covering several subject, each with it's own set of requirements and topics. But shouldn't they have teaching plans for all this already? The additional effort would be incremental. I would love to hear an elementary school teacher's perspective on this. I suspect I am missing something because obviously there are many teachers wearing two hats - parent and teacher.


I suspect people really underestimate the difficulties elementary school teachers face because of being "on" all day. It may be am 8-3 job with summers off, but they aren't doing their holiday shopping online when their boss isn't around or hopping out to a dentist appointment midday.

JaneSmith-
I don't think you're being unreasonable or that your expectations are too high. I'm a middle school administrator. My teachers all have 150 to 180 kids a day, teach at least two separate subjects and have 45 min of prep time in one day. In contrast, my son's elementary teacher has 20 kids in one class all day, teaches 4 subjects, has 2 45 min preps a day and 2 hours on Friday solid.

My teachers are required to post homework and tests online in advance, coordinate with other teachers so they do not have more than one test in a day, plan cross curricular projects at least once a quarter, grade their own papers without parents or a TA and enter them in an online gradebook no more than one week after the work was assigned. Parents have 100% access to the gradebook 24/7.

Most of my teachers have been at the school 5+ years. It is possible!

I share your frustration because I walked into my son's class last week to volunteer (set schedule) to hear "Oh I forgot you were coming. I don't have a plan for this morning so we'll wing it."

Hi CAMom -

I do have access to online grades, which is helpful But they are not updated that frequently (I'm pretty sure my son's homeroom teacher has only done it 2x this year). That's not a big deal, but I find it difficult to cross reference the items described with the items I've seen in the agenda and that is frustrating. A master list describing assignments using consistent language would be helpful. The grades aren't my main concern, though. It's getting the information I need to facilitate my son's learning.

Thank you for your perspective. The woman who sits next to me just told me that a private school she is looking at posts all homework assigments online. What she was describing sounds similar to your school.

What I meant by the gradebook is more that parents constantly hold teachers accountable! You would not believe how many emails my teachers get if they don't grade a test and post it online within just a few days :-) It's just expected of them that it's part of their job. It's not an "extra" skill to be organized, efficient and provide parent contact regularly.

FWIW, my school is a public charter.

That is extremely interesting, because my other son is at a charter and the culture there is more like what you describe. We haven't been there long, but already I've been surprised at some of the emails parents will sent out - if they see an issue they will address it aggressively and hit reply all! The parents at this school are involved in coaching academic teams, raising money for the school, and organizing supply drives.

At my other son's school it seems like the parents (actually just the mothers) are extremely willing volunteers, but nobody ever criticizes anything and all the volunteer work is stuff like organizing class parties and buying presents for the teachers and carving pumpkins.

Very, very different cultures. I think I fit better with the complainers. They may be demanding, but they care about the things I care about and we are thrilled with the school!

I don't think your expectations are high at all, if that's what you are used to. Our school is the same way.... 24 access to grades, teacher's post them within a few days, weekly letters from teachers and from the school. I expect it because that is what we are used to. When things don't work on the webpage, it is annoying. we too, have spelling lists posted weekly in advance and when they aren't posted or there isn't a newsletter on the day we normally get it, I wonder where it is. I don't think you are off in your expectations if that is the way things are supposed to be! We all email the teachers with questions without hesitation as well, at our school. It's accepted and welcomed (maybe they don't all like it, but the school has always said you are free to whenever, so that is what we all do.)