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DS7 does not like PE. He has a difficult time with sports in general. He is actually pretty decent at soccer but doesn't like it. He's tried t-ball, mixed martial arts, basketball, swim-team, and soccer but doesn't like any of them. He says he's just not into sports, but I worry that maybe he's just avoiding it due to perfectionism.

He LOVES science club, chess, math club, and piano. In fact, his quote for the day is, "Piano is MY sport!"

So, he's struggling in PE, primarily because of perfectionism. He falls apart if he can't do something well right away or if he loses.

The PE teacher is having trouble, and I'm really not sure what to tell her. This is an issue that we and his regular teacher are working on in terms of academics, recess, homework, etc. And, he's really making good progress.

The PE teacher doesn't seem to have time to "work on it." I'd be happy with him doing something other than PE, but I don't think they can do that. Plus, I'm not sure what kind of message that sends to ds. What would you do?

Here's the email the PE teacher sent to the regular teacher:

"I have some real concerns about N during PE. He has at least one meltdown per session where he becomes so upset, crying, and yelling at other friends when he makes a mistake during the activity.

My response is to ask him to step away for a few minutes and then I try to make my way over to talk things through with him. This takes time.

My concern is that I can see that it is very upsetting to many of the other friends when he has these episodes. Everyone becomes a bit on edge about it.

Also, when we are in the midst of a game where I am trying to oversee the events of the game, it is difficult to step away to tend to N every time and sometimes more then once in our 45minute time period.

I feel that on some days, he is requiring much more of my time and attention then the other friends combined."

I just think athletics are such a source of anxiety and stress for him that it's pointless. I'm not sure what he's actually getting out of it. The doctor and counselor feel that he is having full-blown anxiety attacks when he has a "meltdown". I'm not sure if this is what is happening during PE, or if he's just being impulsive and getting his frustration out by yelling and blaming others. I've seen him during extracurricular sports, and it's always been the anxiety sort of outbursts, not actually yelling at someone else.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for any advice you might have.

This might help with understanding. Both of my children dislike team sports. When I asked why, DS8 told me, "it was because of the pressure of not letting the team down" if he made a mistake. They are both protectionist and are harder on themselves than the team would be.

We have found they both like skiing, skateboarding, rock climbing, and hiking, basically anything that doesn't involve a team or other kids counting on them.

Good luck! If you find a solution, I would love to hear it.

Hi Jen,

He's in a private school, if I recall. If you were in a public school I'd say try to get PE support into the IEP-- the PE teacher doesn't get to say he doesn't have time if the IEP obligates him to do the right thing.

In private school you have no legal protection for a kid with disabilities; you are more at the mercy of the good will of the team. Lots of teachers in private schools are there because they don't want to deal with challenging kids like they have in public school. You can talk to the principal, but he/she may or may not be willing to make the PE teacher be helpful, and the PE teacher may resent this and continue to follow his own path even if the principal does choose to try.

How sure are you, incidentally, that your DS doesn't have Asperger's? In this and several of your previous posts he sounds exactly like mine at that age. The meltdowns don't sound like ADHD alone to me, though I am not qualified to diagnose over the internet.

As to whether it's a waste of time: In our family we've made the decision that we need to keep working at this with DS and not give up. Partly because he's a boy and sports are an important social outlet right through college and beyond-- and partly because we live in a place where sports are valued in the community.

We started with practicing losing at board games, and worked from there to individual sports that are particularly frustrating, and then to group sports. We have in the past sent him to an inclusion sports camp where he'd have access to an aide and let him work through the stress of team games with help.

It's much, much better now, not totally fixed, but better enough that he can play kickball or dodgeball at recess, or any game in gym, without flipping out. I think this was a good investment. We are never going to be a huge soccer family or anything, but it's good enough to allow him full participation at school.

However, every family gets to decide what investments they want to make-- you do have to pick your battles.

HTH,
DeeDee

Thanks for responding. DS is very active with swimming (just not on a team), running, etc. I'm not so worried about him getting physical activity. Also, I think eventually he might like to get involved in a more individual sport. I really like the rock climbing idea. Of course in FL we have to go to the place that has the rock climbing walls!

Hopefully someone can give some advice on how to handle the PE thing at school.

Individual sports are a good step. Do you think he can learn to manage swim team as a next step? Or something where he's competing, but with himself as much as with others? Those are easier for this kind of kid than contact sports and sports where someone gets "out".

We worked on the sports thing outside of school on our own, and through private behavioral therapy; there wasn't a lot of help directly at school for this.

I think your options are to talk to the gym teacher and help him learn how to handle it better and why he should care to; talk to the principal and see if he'll intercede; or not expect it to change.

Not to be a pessimist, but that teacher sounds like the sort who isn't going to alter what he does to help a kid manage what looks like a "behavior problem." (Even though it's not the kid's fault; the teacher just isn't likely equipped for this.) You may be able to turn him around... I just wouldn't bet on it.

Hang in there--
DeeDee

Team sports could come in time when he's more mature and is able to handle the situation better.

Do you think the school would allow him to be the PE teacher's assistant or coach? How would he feel if he was coaching and encouraging the team? Maybe he would be able to view the sports in a different light and slowing work back into playing. This way he can see all the kids making mistakes and hopefully come to the conclusion that it's okay to make mistakes.

I love this idea, but I'm not sure I see the PE teacher being in agreement. I could be wrong, though.

The PE teacher is female, by the way. Regardless, I think it's true that she's not very motivated to work with ds in a positive way. She mentioned a couple of times in her email about how much "time" my son takes during PE. Does she think that ds's regular teacher is able to help him without taking "time"? I've worked with kids 50 times more difficult than ds, and taking "time" was part of my job. I wonder how she'd do if a kid punched her or threw a chair across the room? Again, that was at public school, and as Deedee mentioned, teachers can't hide out in public school avoiding the "difficult" students.

This particular PE teacher has struggled with how to work with ds in the past. She sometimes makes statements that exacerbate, rather than diffuse, the situation. For example, earlier this week, she told ds that he likely didn't hear her mid-game rule change (shouted out in the middle of an on-going game to add complexity) because he was probably already getting mad and had tuned her out. This was following ds getting upset because he got "out" in a game as a result of not hearing the teacher's directions. I'd be willing to guess he didn't hear the instruction because HE HAS ADHD and he was already dribbling a basketball and running around an outdoor court with 13 other children! Yes, I'm sure she gave the instruction, and I'm sure he didn't hear it, but how does it help to make a statement like that?

I know it's not acceptable for him to yell or meltdown every time he gets frustrated, but she's just going to have to understand that this is a process. DS is gaining more and more control, the meltdowns are reducing, but Rome wasn't built in a day. Unfortunately for the PE teacher, PE will likely be the last area to improve because ds already dislikes it so much.

Ds's Montessori school, including his regular teacher and the administration, is more than willing to work with him. His classroom teacher is not concerned about how his anxiety affects her. She's worried about him and his happiness. Maybe we just need to meet with the PE teacher and give her some strategies. She probably just doesn't know what to do. I'm sure the counselor can help with that as well.

I do not think ds has asperger's, although some of his "symptoms" do overlap. There are specific reasons that we (including developmental-behavioral pediatrician, psychologist, and counselor) do not think this is likely, but I always keep an open mind.

Ok, I'm so tired now, I think I'm rambling. Thanks again, as always, for the advice and support.

If the principal, main teacher, and counselor are able to convey specific strategies for teaching your DS to the PE teacher in a form she'll accept, that may be the best way-- you know the culture of your school. Teachers in general hate being told how to teach, so hearing it from a peer can be better for them than hearing it from a parent.

On the other hand, if you think you'll be working with her for years, the more you can build a relationship with this PE teacher, the better.

Hard stuff.

DeeDee

Bowling is a good way to do a sport and learn to overcome anziety about failing.

My dd12 didn't do well with team sports when she was younger b/c she had a hard time with people running at her while she was trying to set up to shoot a basketball, for instance. I think that part of it was due to sensory issues and part to her not being extremely fast so she was trying to slowly process through the next step and getting overwhelmed at people disrupting her thought processes by invading her space.

Do they always do team sports in PE? Would the PE teacher be open to rotating the activities to include more individual sports such as track events(even relay races might minimize the difficult aspects of team sports)?

Odd that this thread was started. I went to pick up DD 4 from school this afternoon and had a note on her folder from her PE coach informing me that DD was not following instructions. Very basic note with not much information. I would have appreciated a little more information such as maybe an example. All I could get out of DD is she was playing.

A little background: The PE instructor is new this year. DD's school is a private school that goes through elementary which is why they added PE but included the preschool 3 and 4 yr olds.

I brought the note up to my friend last night and she was 100% negative about the idea of preschool kids even having a PE teacher. "They should just have recess and play." She went on to argue that organized activities from a PE coach/instructor is not appropriate for this age level. I really don't see a problem with it. PE is taught twice a week and it doesn't take place of recess. I see it as more exercise which is what our country in general needs to be doing for the young population. Also, there are many after school activities for organized sports at this age: soccer, tennis, t-ball, etc.

My question: did any of your children have 'PE' when they were preschool age? And also is it asking too much of a child this age to follow instructions? Of course, I would have liked to know exactly what she was asked to follow and will send a note to her PE coach to clarify this but she doesn't return until Monday.

I definitely think this is the way to go, but even those types of sports are difficult for him. Actually, if he could do them early in the day it would be better. By late afternoon/early evening, his attention is shot which contributes to the frustration of not being "good enough". We tried swim team, but it was very chaotic, and ds was lost. Also, it took the fun out of swimming, which is one athletic activity that he absolutely loves. He's actually a VERY strong swimmer, but he hated swimming laps and was continually distracted by all the activity around him. At this point, individual or very small group activities are best for him when it comes to athletics. We just haven't found the right one yet. I'd really like to sign him up for the rock climbing place. You get a membership, and then you can climb all you want. They even have free classes for members, and many of them are one-on-one or small group (or even just for a family). Anyway, that's another issue altogether. Right now, I'm primarily concerned with how to handle the PE situation. I really don't want the teacher to dislike ds and think of him as a behavior problem. He's the kind of kid who wouldn't break a rule if his life depended on it (at least not on purpose).

I think the Montessori teachers generally really respect the school psychologist's opinions with situations like this. I am thinking of asking for a meeting with the PE teacher and school psych (aka guidance counselor-she is a licensed school psych though). The private counselor will probably have some good ideas too.

The thing is, the best ideas are the ones that require a teacher to alter her teaching style. I'd prefer to find a solution that requires little effort on the teacher's part because I think we'll get more follow-through.

I love the idea of allowing ds to be more of a helper. He really responds to this kind of thing, but is that fair to the other kids? I don't think so, and ds would probably feel strange about having a role that no one else gets. He doesn't want to stand out as different, yet that's exactly what's happening when he has a meltdown.

Hopefully, if all goes well, ds will be at this school for another 3-4 years. I do want to get to know the PE teacher better and establish a good rapport. We'll get a lot more mileage out of this method, I'm sure.

His dad was really into this as a kid, so maybe this would be a good thing for them to do together. My husband is a great bowler, although we don't go very often. I'm sure there are kid's leagues if ds ever wants to try that. Thanks for the idea!

She does a good mix of team sports and teaching individual athletics. In fact, they've been working on tennis lately. DS HATES it! The did Yoga stretching, and guess what? It was BORING! I wish I could put a video on here of his parody of the Yoga class, complete with exact quotes from the teacher about the value of stretching and the mind-body link. It was hard to keep a straight face. The thing is, he needs to get used to doing things he doesn't particularly love. Unfortunately, we all have to do that on a daily basis (or, at least I do!). Right now, they are doing basketball at PE. I don't think it matters what the sport is. DS is self-conscious about his skill level, and in his eyes he never measures up to the others. Even in an individual sport, he'd be comparing himself to others and getting upset if he's not perfect. He sets impossible standards, and then falls apart emotionally when he doesn't measure up. I think at times, he lashes out verbally because he'd rather blame someone else than accept his own imperfection. When he gets home, it's a different story though. He usually begins blaming someone else, and then breaks down telling me how he's the worst one in the class at _________.

Thank you. I will definitely try to handle it this way. You are right. At least she is reaching out to get some ideas rather than just giving up on him.


OMG!!! I can't believe that! I would be scarred for life!

As a former PE teacher, I will tell this is EXACTLY how I handled a boy in one of my classes. He was most definitely light years above the rest of the boys (5th grade, with special ed inclusion), and I really think this is why he was the most misbehaved. So he became my helper, but ONLY when he behaved. I also had 2 other boys help out throughout class and would rotate who was chosen each day (other than the first boy on the days he behaved). It was truly a perfect solution. He never felt like the only one, and the other boys never felt like I didn't pick them.

Thank you for the suggestion. I will definitely talk to her about it, and hopefully she'll be open to the idea.

When I picked up ds today after school, the regular teacher told me that the PE teacher asked about having a "helper" come out with ds to PE. I think she means an adult Montessori sub. The regular teacher didn't seem too big on that idea because she doesn't want to make ds stand out in that way.

She actually asked if I'd like for ds to be able to come in to the classroom with her on days when he's struggling at PE. Again, I don't want him to learn to give up. But, I do want him to learn some way to cope. Maybe that would help him to know he has another alternative. Just having the option might relieve some of the pressure he feels. The doctor said at this point, our goal/plan should be removing anxiety provoking scenarios from his life so that he can experience a some anxiety-free days for a period of time.

More to think about. It's good that they are trying to help come up with solutions. I love his teacher!

How is the accommodations typically used for an ADHD student in a PE class? What do public schools do successfully?

Katelyn's Mom, both of my dds have/had PE as preschoolers (dd6 is now in 1st, dd4 is in pre-k). I also substitute at their private, gifted school so I have seen it in action. Like your school, PE is offered 2 to 3 times a week and is in addition to regular recess. The kids are expected to listen - as they would to any teacher - but the performance expectations are not high. In other words, they are being asked to kick around a soccer ball, rather than play a full-on game. They are being asked to do things like run, walk and gallop. They are instructed on how to play simple games like freeze tag.

To me, it does not seem like too much for young kids. Both of my girls seem to enjoy it (and my oldest is a very "high energy" type kid).

Thanks Irisheyes. I knew it couldn't be that strange to have a PE instructor in preschool. And you confirmed my thoughts. I did talk to her teacher Friday afternoon and she informed me that the coach was having problems with most of the class. I guess they had a little extra energy that day. But I fully support the PE coach and will remind DD about appropriate behavior.