Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums GT Research Ruf's book question

Agreed, kimck. Where we start and where we finish are not just sometimes, but are usually very different, for the majority of people.

I went through the meat-grinder of grad school with plans to be a professor. I wasn't happy in that choice (and the job market in my field stank to high heaven, so there were practical concerns as well), so I left. I worked freelance in business writing, took a position in corporate training and wound up in volunteer training at a non-profit. It was all...meh. At 30, I got married to a man I love deeply and sanely, and we had our first child a couple of years later. I found my work passion--my novel series--shortly after the birth of child #2.

I know what else is out there in the world. I've traveled. I've worked. I know what matters to me and why. I feel strong and smart and appreciated. I am not wealthy, but we have more than enough to meet our needs. I feel challenged. My life is rich.

That's what I want for my kids, too, and I think our little group here is living proof that there are lots of different ways to get there.

I have to agree Kriston. All I wanted to do was be a wife and mother but of course that didn't mean I was going to sit around waiting for some man to come sweep me off my feet and take care of me. LOL! I wound up with 2 college degrees and a good job. I still work part time and I am glad that I can do that because then I get to spend the rest of the time with my kids.

I too want my kids to know what options are out there. I don't think I fully understood all that there was to do out in the world when I was 18. I think I would have like to have been an archaeologist but that didn't seem a viable option at the time though I'm not sure why. I want to make sure that my kids do know what options are out there and I want them to travel and really know what they could do with their lives. But my ultimate goal is for them to find something that makes them happy. And I do think that involves getting a college degree and having lots of options open to them so they can get good jobs.

And Ren it didn't offend me when you said "The second group produced a lot of misfits that do not have direction, say they are not happy and do not have jobs they think of as permanent" but I am a child of the 1970's and I don't consider myself a misfit without direction and I am happy and have been at the same job since graduating college 16 years ago. And the same for the people I know and graduated from school with. So I'm not sure what group you are talking about. ?? Or maybe I misread?

I think I understand all sides of this issue. I, too, want DS to be happy, and I like to think I'd be happy whatever he chooses to do as long as he's happy, but honestly, I don't think I'm big enough to accept whatever he chooses to do. Just hope I'm big enough to keep my big mouth shut whatever he chooses to do, as long as he's happy...

Thank you for all comments. And I am glad we all have our opinions because there is no right way or wrong way if we all want to provide our children with options.

I am reading a paper:

http://www.gifted.uconn.edu/nrcgt/reports/rbdm9308/rbdm9308.pdf

on raising very young gifted children. Kind of an "how to" since I really like a map...

Ren

Thanks for the link Ren!

I think that was so important that I wanted to bring that out again. Our sense of worth brings fulfillment, which gives us real happiness. When we contribute to our community, it increases our sense of worth, "self-esteem" if you prefer that word. So, our happiness comes when we are concerned about others welfare and happiness. Make happiness our personal goal, and it eludes us.
And as all general observations, it does not hold true for everyone. But I thought that was a good observation that Wren made.

Here's a "yes....sort of."

I was visiting the forum looking for some other info, but Ren's question caught my eye and I decided to toss in my 2 cents worth.

I've known a lot of EG & PG kids and families over the years. The son of a friend completed the K-12 curriculum by age 6, and I think most PG kids I've known were at least intellectually capable of finishing the K-5 curriculum by that age. And, at least in my experience, virtually 100% of PG kids are capable of completing K-12 by age 12 if they want to, and quite a few of them do.

But the question about doing elementary in one year ends up being moot for most of our kids because WE, the parents, are usually so slow to recognize that they are not just gifted but way off the charts. Most of us are still either clueless or in denial at that stage. I know in our case that, when our son was six, the thought of having a 7yo ready for 7th grade would have shocked us and scared us silly!

DW and I thought we were meeting his needs by getting him into a full-time gifted elementary. After many tears were shed over how slow and boring school was, especially math, we enrolled him in Stanford's EPGY math program. He did grades 3-8 in 6 months (@15 min/day) and two years of HS algebra in another 6 months (@ ~30min/day).

This finally clued us in that we weren't just dealing with "normal gifted." Then he asked to skip grades 5-8 and go to high school. I did some pretesting and outlined the preparation he needed. We homeschooled for a year (nominally 5th grade). He did a compressed grade 5-8 curriculum with absurd ease and continued through geometry, some other high school content, and a bit of college-level material.

He was accepted at the local math/science magnet high school at age 11. He did fine the first year, with a 1st place in the science fair, a 2nd in the history fair, and pretty good grades in honors and AP courses, but then he took a college course in Symbolic Logic over the summer, led the class, and decided that high school courses were boring. He stuck it out for one more year because WE weren't prepared for him to be in college, but we caved in and let him start at a local university at 13.

This was a kid who would have had a wide mixture of scores on Ruf's levels at age 5. He was quite early with things like lifting his head, walking, speaking, grammar, and vocabulary, but he didn't read independently or do arithmetic until kindergarten. He NEVER showed the generalized passion for learning that seems to characterize most level 5s and many level 4s. Passion for specific subjects, yes. Unhappiness with "slow" instruction, yes. Relentless pressure to learn everything, definitely not! At that age, he preferred drawing, daydreaming, playing games, or just hanging out with older kids or grownups.

Now, COULD he have done (say) the K-5 curriculum in one year? We'll never know, but - excluding handwriting, and assuming either homeschooling by a very motivated parent or a highly compacted program for PG 6yos (!) - I wouldn't want to bet against him. I strongly suspect that he had the ability to do it, but he might not have had the motivation. More to the point, even if such an accelerated program had been available, it would never have occurred to us to put him in it when he was 6.

Anyway, IMHO, Ruf is about right on how fast level 3s, 4s, and 5s can learn the elementary curriculum, especially if they already have a good headstart on reading and arithmetic. The reason they usually don't is that grownups don't give them the chance to try!

Drake

I agree. Well put!

Thanks for the two-cents, Drake. Hope you'll post again!

Thanks for the post Drake! Very enlightening.


This sounds like my DS in preschool, who's overwhelming us now in 1st grade. He was interested and doing some arithmetic before kindergarten. But wildly passionate - no. A little scary to read.

Drake, thank you for a very informative post. Though, in my opinion, it shows how you couldn't hold him back, despite all efforts and concerns. This child was going to push his way into university at a very young age.

One thing that surprises me is that the gifted elementary school did not accomodate his needs. That is what I am expecting from Hunter, that they will do the things you had to do, because they are the professionals in gifted. Especially when they are the magnet gifted school.

The NYC public magnet gifted school does the pullouts and subject acceleration as needed. They told us of a grade 1 child that goes to grade 8 for math.

Ren