Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional ADHD and Executive Function

Well, there are the tip sheets from some of the seminars I've done on the topic for DYS parents.

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10471.aspx
http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10523.aspx

I'm currently cooking the articles I've written on the topic (hundreds of pages worth) into a book on executive functioning for bright-to-gifted kids. Working title is, "If you're so smart, how can you be so...?" although I doubt that will be the actual title because it's really rude (grin).

@ Aimee, Lol at your working title. My mom used to say that to me whenever I did something normal that showed a typical teenage lack of judgment. I really hated it at the time.

Yes, I heard a lot of that, too: "What's wrong with you!? How could someone so smart do something so stupid!?"

In our house it was 'if you're so smart, how come your fly is unzipped.'

Also reminds me of the joke that ends, "Don't worry there are plenty of parachutes left, the world's smartest man just jumped out the plane with my back."

I hate to say it but, this is a shoe that fits. I imagine that on my headstone will be engraved, 'A day late and a dollar short.' Although what I can't tell is if I'm actually more bungling that the average person, more bungling that the average Giftie, or exactly the same amount bungling as anyone else, but have a much harder time forgiving myself than other people (Inner Directed Perfectionism.)

((I'd ask my DH but I know what he would say, and I know that the basis of his opinion would be Outer Directed Perfectionism, not my actual behavior.))

Aimee, I hope your book happens soon, and I hope there is a big chapter and a quiz about Inner and Outer Directed Perfectionism so that we can figure out if we are being too hard on our selves and our kids or if there really is a problem.

I don't think 'Perfectionism' is a very well defined term, although we act like we are all talking about the same thing. For me there is a Perfectionism that is related to Giftedness. It relates to the strength of our imaginations, and our ability to see that shining. perfect world so clearly that we sometimes (or often) loose track of the delightful griminess of the current world. I think that one of the key developmental tasks of Gifties is to develop 'amphibian eyes' that can see above the water (world as it should be/ is in our imaginations) and below the water (world as it is) and switch views comfortably and at our own will.

Opps, food burning in the kitchen, gotta go. What was it we were saying about EF skills?

love and more love,
Grinity

Hi Aimee,
I like that title. It really clicks with a lot of people, I bet.

Grinity,
Flylady.net's website looks overwhelming just on its own. Though I'm sure it has helped lots of people.

Sometimes it seems the "system" of managing lacking EF is overwhelming and too much. Often it helps to really simplify and simplify .. and I think that relates to some of perfectionism. Knowing what should be/could be doesn't mean it has to be that way. As Grinity said, dropping all the hoops that society expects or we believe socially what is expected, some of it isn't necessary at all.

Just some thoughts on that

Aimee -
Have you done or know of any studies that have looked at much good/poor EF abilities affect academic and life outcomes vs the effect of high IQ?

I wonder if the outcomes are better for those with average to high average IQ and excellent EF skills than for gifted IQ and very poor EF. But, I have never seen actual research on this.

I have one child that is 2-E with very poor EF and another that is very average with average EF. Life and school is so much easier for the average child. While she may not contribute to the world with any breakthrough ideas, she is able to prioritize, get stuff done, apply her skills to novel situations and maintain a life balance. I worry much less about her than her "smarter" brother.

Decision-making ability seems to be a third factor not correlated with either IQ or EF. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20457481

I just took a look at the Flylady.net site - Wow It has Grown since I started.

LOL - one can see a 'non-linear mind' at work! No wonder she had CHAOS (can't have anyone over syndrome)! It took Marla 9 months to declutter. That sounds really short to me. I got the worst 50% done and have been coasting for years.

ok - so to start with, do something and if that doesn't work, do something else.

My best guess is to start here:
http://flylady.net/pages/begin_babysteps.asp

and just mindless follow the rules for 31 days. In fact I'm so inspired that I'm going to celebrate my empty nest by starting a new thread where whoever wants to can start and we can all do it together. Then we can whine, complain and celebrate together. My plan is to skip the things that feel too hard, for now and spiral back to them later.

Smiles,
Grinity

This describes my brother and me (me being the 2-E(ADD), and him being "average", though he is bright). Even as adults this still holds true.

I don't think there are studies yet that show differential real-world effects of high/low EF with respect to high/low IQ. The literature base is only just starting to show that the two factors are separate at all (that you can have high IQ test scores with low EF test scores, in particular).