Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Susan Winebrenner

First off, I'm really happy with the meeting DH and I had with DC's school. They seem to have listened to our many concerns and tried to propose something that is workable for them and us.

Has anyone had experience (good or bad) with teachers/schools who have implemented the ideas in Teaching Gifted Kids in the Regular Classroom by Susan Winebrenner?

DS8's teacher is enthusiastically planning to implement it, and the administration is supporting the implementation. It won't completely resolve our issues because DS8 can learn new material much more rapidly than his peers, but it certainly seems like a step in the right direction. They're going to allow kids to test out with a 90% or better (I know that's high, but baby steps are good) in Language Arts, Math and Spelling and also offer optional Independent Study projects for various classes including Social Studies and Science as appropriate.

The school is even planning to bring out Mrs. Winebrenner (or one of her staff?) to give a presentation at one of the Teacher Development days. I had really thought we'd have to leave the school as I'd expected little or no accommodation so this sounds very exciting to me.

I'd love to hear any experience you might have had with Mrs. Winebrenner's methods. Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

I think that it's great that the school is doing this. Will it meet your individual child's needs? Who knows!

I would certianly get a copy of that book and read it if you haven't already.

What I like the most is that all the kids will be given the opportunity to test out - so your child might have chances to work on Independent Study project with other kids in small groups, which is totally fun.

A similar type project was set up for my son in 4th grade, and he and the class and the teacher all enjoyed it.

Problems:
1) Actually implimenting the material in the book is a lot of learning for any particular teacher to do. This year's teacher may be willing - that's great, but what about next year's teacher? Can a teacher from the above grade be selected now to work as a team with this year's teacher so that next year the teacher will already have experience with the methods?

2) If a child is moderately gifted, this sort of thing can meet their needs, but realistically, if a child tests out of 90% of the topics, they are going to spend 90% of the school year on Independent Projects. This is great for the independent kid who is self motivated - but for more asynchronous kids who are 'age-appropriate' in their planning and self-motivating skills, it's a lot of time on their hands without much guidance. Don't get me wrong, there were many times in my son's elementary school career, where I would have been happy if the teachers just let him read in the corner - but that doesn't really help a child grow in the areas where effort is required.

But the next years teacher sounds lovely, and it is certianly worth a try.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Thanks, Grinity and MoN.

From what I understand from the meeting, the students will be grouped within the classroom by ability and there are various strategies the teacher will use, many of which are not student-choice, but assigned and led by the teacher. There are Independent Study elements, but they are one option of several that the teacher plans to use. For Math, students who get 4/5 of the most difficult questions correct on the homework will either get different Math homework or none for that day. I love it. I can't say how many days I struggled with forcing DS8 to take his time to make the Math neat, when he just wanted to whip through it because it took no thought.

Grinity listed some of my concerns, like what about next year's teacher. The school is being very supportive of this strategy by bringing in the author to talk with the entire teaching staff, so I'm hopeful, but I understand that this is VERY dependent on the teacher. I know I'll need to start working early in the year to figure out about next year. Frankly, I need to worry about DS6 as well, and see if this year's teacher (if he gets the one we want, we really like her) can employ these methods as well.

All-in-all, the school has given us reason to stick it out and give it a try. At the very least, DS8 will have a wonderful teacher this year, and she seems open to discussing whether the strategies are providing sufficient challenge for DS, which seems like such a blessing. I am pleased that they plan to offer all the kids this opportunity since there are at least two kids in this grade other than DS who I know will benefit.

I know it's not optimal, but it is better than what we had, and now we neeed to see whether it is enough. For now, we have our fingers crossed that things work out.

That "most difficult first" strategy is really a great one for avoiding repetitious, unnecessary work. Keep in mind though that in Weinbrenner's book this strategy is:

a) supposed to be short term (if a student is continually able to do this, the teacher is supposed to plan and deliver alternative/more challenging instruction)

and

b) supposed to "buy time" for other learning.

You might consider working with the teacher to come up with an alternative homework kit that focuses on a math topic/activity that interests and engages your child. When your kiddo buys his way out of the regular homework, he could perhaps pull an assignment that would take a comparable amount of time from the kit and work on that instead. Others might have some ideas of resources that would be good for this. The idea is not to provide busy work, but to allow your child the same opportunity to learn time management and study skills that he would have if the homework were appropriate.

FWIW, I think that there is a lot of value in Weinbrenner, but don't be surprised if initial implementation is a little bit spotty. It isn't as easy as she makes it sounds

So that sounds better than nothing - and in the hands of a teacher who is a good fit, it can be terrific for a year. BUT, what you've said right here illustrates a problem that is potentially fixable. If your child is at about the same level as the kids in his grade who are able to get 4/5 of the hardest Math questions correct - optimally gifted, then clearly he's probably going to have a wonderful time. But what if the child is more like at the level of kids in one grade up who score 4/5 of the hardest Math questions correct?

For example, My son was a handful of reading levels above the rest of his 4th grade class. In fact, he was higher than they ever remembered a 4th grader being at that school. Did I want him in his own reading group or did I want him with the next highest level group? Neither. I wanted him in a reading group with other kids his own level, even if it meant leaving the room and going up to the next grade. That wasn't workable since at our school the next grade didn't use reading groups and worked as a whole class at a lower level than the top reading group of the lower grade. What the teacher ended up doing was keeping him with the top group, and bumping that group up 2 levels over the heads of the other kids. The look on her face when she explained led me to believe that the it wasn't easy for her to pull this off. It was still a handful of levels below my son's reading level.

So you may or may not have an inherent problem depending on the readiness levels of the other kids in your class. Sometimes the Universe is kind and no matter how high a readiness level your child is, there is another child who is 'in the ballpark.'

If you kid is really far more ready than the other kids in his class, a simple fix is to ask for cross grade grouping. If his this year's teacher and his next year's teacher bring their classes together and team teach some subjects for the two grades, you increase the odds that the kids who place out of the regular math will have a similar readiness level to your son, increase the odds that next year's teacher will be experienced in Winebrenner's approach, and increase the odds that next year's teacher can start to realize exactly where your child is. You also decrease the odds that there will be lots of repetition next year.

It's true that not having to make your child do meaningless Math homework is something to celebrate. But your child deserves to go to school and learn both new subject matter, and good work ethic, no matter what that child's readiness level happens to be.

Love and More Love,
Grinity