Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional How to DX Dyslexia?!

For those with children with an official Dyslexia dx- how was that done. What exactly was done (testing..ect..) to determine this.

We are concerned about my 8 yr old gt son. He has always been far behind with spelling, writing. He also is speeched delayed (going into the 3rd grade and still receives services through an IEP for speech- articulation issues). He did not learn his ABC until the summer before 1st grade and even then had a really rough time with it. Luckily he has caught up to reading at grade level this last year. But he still has lots of quirky things going on.
Examples: on a digital clock he can not tell the difference between 2's and 5's. When reading he still doesn't use all the correct words- will replace them with words that seem similar or uses the context of the story to place what word he thinks would go there.
We had him tested for learning disorders @ 2 yrs ago- but the psychologist said that it was to young to make any "official" dx- but thought there was something going on with him . He was leaning towards Auditory Processing Disorder (we just moved schools and his new school psych doesn't agree with this). We were thinking of having him retested soon- but what exactly do we ask for. Now that he is at grade level- no one seems to think that there is any issues- but he is still preforming way below his ability level. (according to a comparison between olsat and his achievement test- cant remember the name!)

Just want to make sure we give him every opportunity there is to preform and learn at his level. Would love to know how your child received there dx and any signs that made you think of getting them tested.

Thanks

My son was diagnosed with a language disability at age 6 (the end of K), by the school. I referred him for an educational, psychological, and speech and language evaluation. Like your son, he had initial speech delays, had a very difficult time learning his letters, couldn't rhyme and scored very poorly on all school based reading assessments for phonemic awareness and pre-reading skills.

Your description of his current struggles confusing numerals, replacing words using context as he reads, spelling difficulties are all hallmarks of a reading disability.

Schools don�t conduct testing to "diagnose". They evaluate to determine if the child fits into any of the categories outlined under IDEA, federal special ed law. Be sure not to use the word dyslexia, unless your school uses it. Because dyslexia is not a federal category, schools often "refuse" to use the word. Instead, use words like disability in reading. Likewise, ADP is not a category, but disability in language processing is.

So - how to find out what is going on. Generally, I would recommend starting with the school and writing a letter requesting a full educational evaluation. Mention your concerns: Difficulty with reading, spelling, writing, overall lower academic performance than expected etc. If he has organizational difficulties, word finding problems, memory issues, mention this too. The district must evaluate in all areas of suspected disability within about 60 days (varies by state). You'll get a copy of the evaluation report that should include a description of the tests, the results (in standard score and percentile rank), interpretation, analysis and recommendations. You will meet with a team that includes special educators, evaluators, general ed teacher to determine if your child is eligible for special ed. If he is found eligible you will write an IEP that outlines current level of performance, goals and service. It sounds like he may already have one for speech - if so, this would be an amendment.

Sometimes school evaluations are not very good. If you are not satisfied, you can request an IEE independent education evaluation at the district's expense once they have had their turn.

As an alternative - if money is not an issue, you can have your child privately evaluated. Given his history, I would suggest a neuropsychological evaluation given by a professional that specializes in working with children with learning disabilities. I would also suggest a full speech and language evaluation that looks at both oral and written language. Often time teaching hospitals, universities have LD units that do this kind of testing. If there are any LD schools in your area, they may be have a list of good evaluators.

In the meantime, I urge you to read "Overcoming Dyslexia" by Sally Shaywitz. Also, you may find these resources helpful:
Is it a reading delay? http://www.greatschools.org/special-educ....gs?content=743
Special ed evaluations http://www.greatschools.org/special-education/LD-ADHD/evaluation-an-overview.gs?content=665
Early signs of a reading disorder http://www.greatschools.org/special-educ....gs?content=739
Fact sheets on dyslexia http://www.interdys.org/FactSheets.htm
LD forum http://millermom.proboards.com/index.cgi#general
LDonline - resource for learning disabilities http://www.ldonline.org/

My son went through *many* evaluations before he was diagnosed with dyslexia. I have *no* idea why no one figured it out, because he has fairly classic symptoms. He was finally diagnosed by Fernette and Brock Eide when he was in 5th grade. Ironically, he was reading on a high school level at the time.

My son also has many other things that go along with the dyslexia: auditory processing disorder, vision problems that were helped by vision therapy, other sensory processing problems, motor planning problems, and attention issues.

I highly recommend the books Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz and The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide.

Kai, I think the diagnostic standard most people use for dyslexia is like that for ADHD-- you have to prove it's negatively affected his learning in order to get the diagnosis.

For most kids this means they really haven't learned the material-- but for a gifted kid a learning disability can mean they just haven't learned it to potential, or they're spending colossal amounts of extra energy to get the job done.

Sounds like you've had a long road. I hope he's having an easier time now that he's dxed.

DeeDee

our 7 year old is seeing a pediatric eye doctor that specializes in visual development in children. we are waiting for our second of 2 appointments....when they are done we should know if our child is dyslexic or has a visual processing disorder. the other path i was going to take was with a child psychologist who does intelligence testing....she also could have dx him with dyslexia....but i chose the eye doctor because i know my son is smart and his issue is not about IQ...and it seems to be more about vision. i felt like i would get a clearer picture of what is going on by taking him to the eye specialist.

our school district would not have tested him because despite his letter, number, and word reversals he is still performing at grade level...so for us the only route to take was a private evaluation.

Thanks everyone for the responses. I am definitely going to be checking out those recommended links and book mentioned.

momma2many- that is interesting about seeing a pediatric eye doctor- what made you do that route- are there other issues and concerns ya'll had. When DS was tested 2 years ago we did a private child psychologist (we are lucky that our insurance covered it) but I would have never thought about going the route of an eye specialist. Going to look into that- at his last eye appointment his vision was perfect- but the doctor was concerned about his focusing speed- he wears reading glasses for an hour or two a day at home now - not for seeing but to give his eyes a workout.

Our biggest issue is that now that he is at grade level- no one is really concerned about anything and we can not stand the school psych so we do not want to go through them until necessary. They seem to think we are crazy for being concerned since he is doing just fine now (and maybe we are crazy :-) ) but I have a gut feeling that there is still something going on with him that needs to be addressed.

Go with your gut. At the same time, be ready for the school to fight you about doing anything. As you have already stated, according to them he is doing fine being at grade level. You are facing the 2e dilemma -- his giftedness may make it so that he is not disabled enough to qualify for an IEP and his LD (if he has one) may make a gt classroom not a perfect fit.

Your son sounds similar to my DD8 (without speech issues). My DD has been in a gt classroom since 1st grade. She always has read at or above grade level but needed a lot of support at home. She consistently has struggled with writing and spelling. At the end of first grade, we took her for IQ and achievement testing because everything seemed like it took so much effort. She was diagnosed as HG with dyslexia and dysgraphia. We brought this information to the school and were told that she did not qualify for services through school. They then gave an overwhelming number of suggestions for things that we could try at home.

We are in the process of doing vision therapy. I think that it is addressing some eye function issues that compounded my DD's issues. It will not change the fact that my DD's brain just works differently. Last year, my dd had a great teacher who was willing to work with my dd and give her extra time for writing. We still haven't found a good fit on spelling.

jolene77 - follow your gut. 2-E children can often compensate for reading difficulties in the early years. But, as the volume and complexity of reading and writing increases from grade 5 and beyond, they can begin to fall apart. AND the research is clear - early intervention is more effective and efficient.

Beware of treating dyslexia with vision therapy. Dyslexia is not a visual processing issue - it is a difficulty with phonemic processing and sometimes rapid naming/ orthographic processing skills. While some children have comorbid issues with visual issues, the vast majority of the time, the visual system is not the primary cause of the reading difficulty and focus on the vision system rather than the phonological system can delay the primary and most effective intervention: a systematic, rules based, multi-sensory, phonemic based reading program.

This is an expert from a joint statement on Learning Disabilities, Dyslexia, and Vision from
American Academy of Pediatrics, Section on Ophthalmology, Council on Children with Disabilities, American Academy of Ophthalmology, American Association for Pediatric Ophthalmology and Strabismus, American Association of Certified Orthoptists, http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/124/2/837

"Learning disabilities, including reading disabilities, are commonly diagnosed in children. Their etiologies are multifactorial, reflecting genetic influences and dysfunction of brain systems. Learning disabilities are complex problems that require complex solutions. Early recognition and referral to qualified educational professionals for evidence-based evaluations and treatments seem necessary to achieve the best possible outcome. Most experts believe that dyslexia is a language-based disorder. Vision problems can interfere with the process of learning; however, vision problems are not the cause of primary dyslexia or learning disabilities. Scientific evidence does not support the efficacy of eye exercises, behavioral vision therapy, or special tinted filters or lenses for improving the long-term educational performance in these complex pediatric neurocognitive conditions."

If you should pursue VT as part of an overall intervention plan (we did), be cautious about long term and expensive contracts. I'm in the Boston area and most of the Behvioral Optomitrists that we interviewed did not require very expensive long term contracts. I have heard of crazy situations in other communities where the providers require thousands of dollars up front. You can get good treatment without being held hostage by such situations.

Also - we found that while VT offered some good short term benefits in the areas of tracking and hand eye cordination, the results were not sustained over time without constant practice of the exercises.

when we wrote out all of the concerns we had with his reading/writing and then googled them....it seemed to us that his issue was more of a visual processing error than true dyslexia. we had a regular vision test and while his vision was great...he had trouble tracking. that is one of the problems he has at home. so we felt like MAYBE he was flipping letters, words, and numbers bc he was struggling to track and couldn't truly focus on what he was seeing. he has said before that the words move and he loses his place. when i googled his issues i read about vision therapy. it is covered by my insurance and i know a local therapist that i trust and so i figured i had nothing to lose.

i do think it is possible that he is just dyslexic or also dyslexic....but we are going this route first. i won't rule out a trip to the child psych for additional testing if i feel it is necessary....but either way i know it is all me when it comes to accommodations and services because i know the school would not service him since he is not behind.

that is how i felt....and that is why we are pursuing private testing. i know that i can help him at home if i just know what is really wrong.

I'm so glad this thread continued after a pause.

I'm confounded by DS7. He tests PG but is inconsistent with his achievement scores (administered by school), and is at least a touch ADD. He's already gone for 2 different sets of vision therapy at an opthotist and a behavioural optometrist over the last 2 years and was pronounced normal earlier this year. But his handwriting OT (who has a background in vision therapy) just told me that his visual perception is poor, he has slow phonics decoding, and poor word memory - classic sypmtoms of dyslexia. He's also confused when there are both sound and visual cues at the same time. I'm stunned because he reads nearly all the time and is at least at the high school level, with all the science magazines he loves to pore over. His spelling is terrific too - he often gets me to google for more info and would just pull out the word from his brain and read it off the air. Even his handwriting is looking good after 3 mths of fine motor skill OT (in addition to his 2 yrs worth of OT for gross motor skills and sensory issues). Until I read Kai's post, I was hesitant to believe what I had been told.

Reading off The Mislabeled Child, his profile fits neatly for the other symptoms however. I haven't received the full report and recommendation yet, but this thread has been extremely informative. Earlier, we had decided to homeschool him in the next academic year seeing that he's just wilting in school (for us, it's the end of the calendar year). Now I realize it's because of his difficulty in understanding by listening and looking at the same time, perhaps because the background is more busy. Any suggestions, opinions would be most appreciated.

TIA!!

Thought I would add this link to the discussion. Here is a list of tests that evaluate the 5 main areas of reading: http://www.concordspedpac.org/TypesTests.html

A good evaluation will include tests in all 5 areas, and if problems are detected while the evaluator is administering the tests, he or she will most likely use more than one test to get more info.

Many times a dyslexic student may also have relative weaknesses in one or more of these areas: processing speed, working memory, executive functioning, sequencing, motor skills. Dyslexia is a spectrum, and no two dyslexics are exactly alike.

A good resource to understand Dyslexia better is the book ,The Gift of Dyslexia. I also recomend the book, Overcomming Dyslexia. The book The Gift of ADHD, has a alot of information that is extremely helpful!

Has anyone had a child who they believed was gifted and dyslexic (had many of the characteristics of both) not do well on an IQ test or do less well on multiple IQ tests over time?

I ask because I have often thought that DS12, who was very ahead during his first 5 years of life, may have dyslexia. He had a hard time learning the alphabet, rhyming, and blending letter sounds together when learning to read and now (he did learn to read at 5.5-6) often substitutes words for those that have a similar meaning or makes the text say what he predicts it will say. He misreads small words like a, an, that, what, not, here, there, where, etc. even though he regularly reads much bigger words, He guesses at big words he doesn't know and has to make multiple attempts to sound things out phonetically. He's a terrible speller (although does well on spelling tests) and not a great writer. His reading fluency is poor, although his comprehension is above grade level (sometimes testing quite a bit above grade level). We brought this to the attention of his school in 2nd grade, they gave him IQ and achievement tests, and just said he was "high normal." They did start him in speech therapy for awhile for speech fluency, but we stopped that after a year of no improvement. (BTW: he had done speech therapy for a year when he was two because he didn't talk a ton -- although he did talk at 12 months and immediately used multiple word sentences -- and when he did speak he left off consonants, but this improved to normal when I introduced him to phonics.) After seeing an optomotrist and then a developmental optomotrist, he did VT for a year with some results (text stopping moving on the page, no more headaches when reading). Last winter we had him ability tested again after concerns from his teacher that he might have attention issues because it was taking him so long to finish his work. This time, the IQ results had dropped 20 points. The psych thought this might be due to undiagnosed ADHD-inattentive type so we started him on meds that have helped a little.

But still, I wonder about dyslexia since he has so many characteristics. In addition, it makes no sense to us why a child who was always "performing" several years above age when he was young, and who has a sister who is HG+ and a brother who is MG+ and two parents who are gifted, is having to work so hard to learn. Can undiagnosed dyslexia cause a drop in IQ? I'm prepared to accept he's "just" ND, but he's always just seemed dyslexic to me.

Not dyslexic, and I don't play one on TV. (nor do I know enough to diagnose dyslexia)

However, I read whole words and have since I started reading. This means that I often skim sentences to get meaning and will skip or misread individual words. The idea of phonics didn't really click with me until I had been reading for years. Even now I have issues sounding out words.

It sounds like there's something wrong, however it may not be as simple as dyslexia. Is he being adequately challenged in school?

Hi Maryann1,

He is being challenged in school. He's possibly the youngest in his class (boy with a summer birthday in a private school with a lot of red-shirted kids). He gets almost all A's in all the academic subjects (mostly B's in art and general music), but he has to work for them. It's become a bit easier since he started Adderall, but his biggest issue is still how much time it takes to complete work (hours) and the "careless" mistakes he makes, particularly in math. Interestingly, the testing showed math concepts to be a strength, whereas computation was a weakness. Story recall was at college-level and comprehension was two grade levels ahead, while phonics and coding and working memory were weaknesses. Reading outloud is painful for everyone involved, but he always seems to do well when reading to himself. There have been mixed thoughts on the necessity of reading aloud from his teachers, though. We try to just let him read to himself since he enjoys reading when he does. It's good to know, though, Maryann1, that you are a well-functioning adult even though you weren't great at phonics as a kid!

Anyway, just curious if anybody had seen a drop in IQ as a result of dyslexia that perhaps improved when treated? What types of techniques are used to help people with dyslexia?

Well, you need to consider what Keith Stanovich calls the Matthew Effect. If you're not reading well or easily, then you have less access to the curriculum (whether that be formal curriculum or just the stuff floating by in your life). So you learn less from what's around than other kids are learning, both in terms of content and in terms of learning strategies. So you have less fund of general knowledge, less experience solving complex problems, less experience self-regulating as a learner. This becomes a self-stoking cycle -- the less you read, the less you learn, the less you read, and so on. The poor reader will tend to diverge more and more from the normal-reader population over time.

Similarly, there's a reverse Matthew Effect with gifted kids -- they get better and better at extracting more and more information and ideas and strategies from the world around them, they learn more and more, and so on.

So it's not unreasonable to wonder if a GT kid who has chronically been struggling to read might start to lose ground compared to those who have not had to try so hard.

In terms of techniques that are helpful for dyslexics, the key words are multisensory, structured, sequential, phonics-based. There is a whole chart comparing the various research-supported intervention systems on http://www.interdys.org/ewebeditpro5/upload/MSL2007finalR1.pdf

Aimee brings up an important concept - the Matthew Effect. Sally Shawitz addresses this in "Overcoming Dyslexia" - specifically as it relates to vocabulary. Since after about age 7 or 8, most of us learn new vocabulary through print, those with dyslexia are at a huge disadvantage. They are not exposed to as many new words simply because they are not reading.

It is important that if a child has significant LD"s that impair access to the school's curriculum, great literature and new ideas in traditional ways (reading), parents should work hard to find alternative modalities. For us, audio books are a part of our every day lives, experiential learning such as visits to museums, other cities and national parks are the cornerstone of our vacations and free time and even things like the Discovery Channel and History Channel can help expose reading impaired kids to new ideas.

That said, most of the subtests on the WISC are not effective by this kind of knowledge. My son's IQ scores have actually gone up (and now leveled off) as he has matured. The only exception would be the subtests that have a time element or a motor element. He has actually lost ground in this area and his processing speed has declined each time he has been tested.

@mich, have you found any resources for non-fiction audio books? We had the recommendation for audio books from the ed-psych a year ago. DD8 has a difficult time listening to fiction stories because she finds them stressful -- she is highly empathetic. When I called the psych back, she recommended having her listen to non-fiction, science texts (science is a passion area). Our local library network only seems to have fiction audio resources for kids. All of the non-fiction resources seem to be geared for adults.

I believed my son had dyslexia and asked for testing, as did his teachers. The diagnostician refused, saying he did not meet standards for school testing because he was not at least 2 grade levels behind. We had him tested privately through a local psychologist who instead diagnosed him with a fine motor disability, dysgraphia. Similar to dyslexia, it carries the same issues with reversed letters, difficulty reading and spelling, and challenges with memorization of things like times tables, etc. It also brings the additional challenges of fine motor skill developmental delays.

Once I had the private diagnosis, I requested another meeting with the school diagnostician. She agreed to take the results before a review committee who then voted to allow the results to be part of his official school record. Based on the results, he was admitted into special ed and began receiving speech therapy, remedial education for reading, and occupational therapy for writing.

If your child is gifted or very bright along with these challenges, you will have a fight on your hands because his testing will belie the difficulties you are describing. You will have to remind yourself that you are advocating for the success of your child. Trust your instincts. Don't be afraid to push beyond the standard institutionalized "no" when asking for help. But whenever possible, keep the teachers and testing staff on your side. Understand that they are overworked, overwhelmed, and bound by a massive boatload of rules and regulations.

Good luck.

BookShare is a service similar to RFBD. You will be able to find periodicals as well as fiction and non fiction books. http://www.bookshare.org/

ABQMom - there is NOTHING in IDEA (Federal Special Ed law) that says one must be at least 2 years behind in order to be evaluated. In fact, if the child is not tested, how would one know how far behind they are? The Child Find provision in IDEA states that upon referral a child must be tested in all areas of suspected disability within 60 days. Most states have further regulations that clarify the 60 days (or less) and the timelines allowed for the report and eligibity meeting. There is no provision for a vote or anything else.

Yes, it is harder to get a gifted child on an IEP if he or she is compensating and meeting minimal requirements. But, with good testing, it is not impossible. www.wrightslaw.com is a great source to learn the legal underpinnings of the spec ed process. www.concordspedpac.org is another excellent site. The concord site contains a lot of info specific to MA, but the federal, testing and other advice is right on for the entire country. LDOnline.org is another good resource.

Districts are often not forthcoming about their responsiblities under IDEA. Be sure to check out the state and federal laws yourself, so that you can hold them accountable.

Thanks for the links; I'll check them out.

It was district policy that was hampering the testing, and we had the choice of going to war with the district to force the testing or getting it on our own. Because our insurance covered it at the time and it would have created a hostile environment with the diagnostician during the testing had we gone to war, we chose the route of private testing.

Have you looked into Non Verbal Learning disorder? Typcially kids with NVLD have good decoding and spelling skills, but struggle with visual perception and visual motor skills and often have difficulties with organization, understanding the big picture and inferencing and or reading between the lines. They are great with facts and figures, but may struggle with abstract concepts. They may learn their math facts easily, but struggle with math concepts.

IDEA does not have a category for NVLD, but does recognize disabilities in some of the component parts: writing, reading comprehension, math, attention etc.

http://www2.scholastic.com/browse/article.jsp?id=3892
http://www.nldontheweb.org/