Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional OE's or ASD? questioning longstanding diagnosis

So, as I have said in previous posts, my son was diagnosed with autism when he was 2 1/2 and then officially labelled as gifted this year in 1st grade at age 6. I saw other people posting about OE's and I didn't know what those were so I ignored them...:) Anyway, now that I looked up OE, those characteristics fit my son to a T! In fact, a lot of those characteristics are what we have been calling autism. I read the book "misdiagnosis dual diagnosis" and it doesn't talk a lot about autism, more about ADHD. But, I think my son has been mislabeled. I have always adamantly defended his diagnosis of autism, but I didn't know about the overexcitabilities and giftedness!!! Have I been wrong this whole time and he is "just" gifted? Is that really a possibility after 5 years? DS's label of high functioning autism has already been "downgraded" to Asperger's then PDD-NOS by a psychiatrist (we took him in due to behavior problems in school). The main ASD deficits of communication problems and social skills problems have never been the huge issue that they are for other ASD kids...and can be explained by the OE's. Argh! The accommodations he receives at school for autism help him, so I wouldn't officially change anything with his IEP, but I am just wondering myself! Has anyone else had this kind of situation???? If not, that's ok, thanks for listening anyway! Nan

I'm curious about what characteristics your son has that fit into the OE category...
and also about everyone's answers.

yikes, that would help, eh? Excessive excitement, enthusiasm, energy (seen as hyperactivity); persistently asking questions (seen as fixating on a particular topic); imagination and creativity and thinking outside the box (seen as not paying attention to the task at hand); strong emotions (crying or "over-reacting" to situations that don't warrant it); sensitivities to noises, lights, reprimands, corrections (seen as being immature and over-reacting); independence and self-direction (we were told he did this because he couldn't communicate his needs properly...maybe he has just always know what he wanted and just did it himself).

Another is not an OE, but something I have seen parents post about their gifted kids is his disinterest in age-appropriate toys...preferring online math quizzes for example...which is an early sign of an ASD (the disinterest in toys, that is).

That's a start of the list. Nan

I personally think that ASDs are quick to be the first diagnosis these days, and it's totally possible for children to be misdiagnosed as such.

You may want to take a look at the Eides' Book, The Mislabeled Child. I haven't looked at it in a really long time but I think it says that the key to an autism diagnosis is a severe lack of emotional empathy, without which there cannot be a true diagnosis.

It can all be very confusing. For what is it worth, my DD3 has many of those traits you listed and probably more, and so far hasn't be labeled with anything "extra" but a part of me always wonders about some things since she seems different from the pack in so many ways. She does like many toys and isn't that indepedent, but is highly reactive, gets stuck in mental ruts (fixates), etc.

I was going to add the part about empathy... I think we questioned ASD a number of times with DS6, but if anything he's OVER empathetic/sympathetic. The thing about not playing with toys gets me because DS6 never played with age appropriate toys (which actually made it difficult for me to buy for DD4 because she is at her age level). It's obvious (to me) that a gifted child wouldn't play with age appropriate toys, as they are "boring" so to speak.

Good luck in figuring it all out!

The empathy part was explained to me as kids with ASD DO have empathy, but have problems expressing (communicating) it. My DS never had a problem with empathy, but it has always been what I would call inappropriate expression (too much or too little...bawling for hours over a dead tree, yet turning away if a friend falls and is injured) which seems to fit in the "emotional OE." I guess I am being silly about caring about a label...he is who he is. I am a little shocked that after 5 years with an ASD label no one mentioned overexcitabilities.

NanRos,
Some things to consider:

independence and self-direction and thinking outside the box - A child with Aspeger's will disengage, which is not quite the same as independence. They will phase out of conversation, classroom, etc as if it didn't relate to them, but usually it is in a sort of aimless manner. It's not that they disengage to do x, y, or z, they just disengage and then find something to entertain themselves. They also tend to be rules sticklers, very literal children. A child with this diagnosis will cling to rules, hold them up for others to see, and get very upset at someone bending them. I think this is part and parcel of their dislike of change.

As I've said before, the absolute clearest thing for me with the Aspeger's is his inability to handle changes in schedule, even when they should be positive. For instance, his school has a field day, so they all get to run around and be outside and enjoy a gorgeous day with no school work. On this day, despite being extremely excited about field day, my son will have a horrible day. He will be tense, and nervous...unsure of things around him. He will be likely to have a tantrum at some point, it might not be long-lasting but it will probably happen. He will be really upset at himself also, because he is gifted and understands that he is sabotaging his day without any idea of how to stop it.

He is also fixated on animals. Originally, I thought he was too broad to be AS, because it is any animal, any disease related to animals, and any prehistoric animals. But, it is always animals. So he asks tons of questions, but almost all of them have to do with animals...even if that is not the current topic of conversation or if it is otherwise an odd place to ask about them.

This doesn't mean your son would act exactly this way if he had AS, but hopefully this is enough of a mental image that it can help you consider whether the diagnosis is right.

My DS9, who was diagnosed with ASD when he was 3 fits those characteristics to a T also! He is very high-functioning, and every assessment he's given( speech, IQ, achievements, adaptive behavior, pragmatic languages etc..) over the years all came back as "not eligible for service" because they did not show any "deficit". The only service he is receiving right now is an adaptive PE for his slightly-delayed gross motor skills. Nan, your son sound a lot like my son, and I also wonder about his diagnosis from time to time. Then again, my son was totally non-verbal at 3, and he definitely has some "Executive Functioning" issues.

How about your son? Does he have any issues on Executive Functioning skills?
http://www.ldinfo.com/executive_functioning.htm
http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Executive-function.html
Executive functioning deficits are often associated with autism. What about his Theory of Mind? For high-functioning kids on the spectrum, those areas are the subtle sighs that you should look for.

Botchan, My son was non-verbal when initially diagnosed, but by 3 due to ABA therapy was verbal. He does have some executive function deficits (problems with change in routine and transitions mostly) and I cannot tell about his theory of mind deficit. I've always assumed he had a theory of mind deficit since I've been living with the ASD diagnosis for years now, but I'm going to look with more of an open eye.

Artana, My son hates field trips and play days when they are on the horizon also. This time of year (end of the school year) is miserable. He had a field trip and wanted to stay home sick (he went and loved it); they are working on a play and he wants to say his line but not "act" (luckily the teacher is accommodating); recess is not fun anymore due to lack of structure and too many choices. And yes, he is a stickler for rules.

Thanks for the input everyone!!! Nan

Wow! Another similarity!
My son was verbal within 6 months of starting ABA also! (From non-verbal to verbal IQ 101 on the WPSSI-III in 6 months.)
Interesting.

Sorry I don't have the answer for the question since I was facing the same issue. DS8 also have some behaviors fit in ADHD or Asperger characteristics, especially when he was young. I didn't have him evaluate by psychologist because his behaviors seem on the borderline of problem and normal. And year by year, I can see him improved and without problem to fit in school. I found this article maybe it will help. http://giftededucation.suite101.com/article.cfm/highly_gifted_aspergers_or_twice_exceptional

We are in the same place with my daughter, who is 10. Based on a couple of behavioural characteristics they have suggested that she be evaluated for Aspergers. While I see the similarities, I believe it is more about OEs than an ASD. I am going to ask our pediatrian about an evaluation to rule it out, or in, as the case may be in a few weeks. My daughter was diagnosed with ADHD at age 6, and that diagnosis I am fairly certain is accurate as her executive functioning is really poor. And ADHD runs in our family. So I think that OEs combined with an accurate ADHD diagnosis is correct.

Thanks for posting this, it's been helpful to see this post, as well as others about Aspergers to help clarify the issue and how I perceive it. Will you pursue a second evaulation for ASD?

-Sky

Sky, I'm not going to pursue another evaluation mainly because with the autism label he currently has, his IEP is strong. He gets speech therapy, OT for handwriting and social skills, and his accommodations of sitting up front next to the teacher, having a squishy seat, being allowed movement breaks, etc, etc are all helpful to him and I'm not sure the school would give him an IEP that has those in there if someone told the school he has OEs because he is gifted! It is a struggle to get what he has even with the autism label. If we removed that, I do not think the school would take a second look at him...just label him a "bad kid." I was just curious, trying to get it all straight in my head. My son does not have any negative feelings about autism...he considers it somewhat of a superpower. I wish I could have a quarter of his self confidence. Nan

It seems to me that if there are behaviors that interfere with functioning in school or play environments, whatever the cause, those behaviors need to be addressed. Nan, your decision to keep the IEP seems smart to me.

Nan, yes, that is part of my concern. They are ready to jump through hoops to do what they can for her IF she has the diagnosis...but if not, well, they aren't sure if she'll qualify for any accomodations. And that is where the problem lies. She does need accomodation for her ADHD issues, but that no longer carries much weight if you child is not academically behind. ASD on the other hand, does. Those sound like wonderful accomodations. When talking to a lot of parents, the key is finding the strategies that work and that is what getting an appropriate diagnosis or label is helpful for. Thanks again for posting.