Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy OLSAT?

Our school board decided the OLSAT is the standard to get into the gifted elementary schools. My research indicates that most kids who score very on the SB do poorly on the OLSAT.

What is your experience and does anyone have experience with advocacy and a school board if you have a 99 perenctile on the SB?

Ren

The DOE used to used the same SB as Hunter. Hunter is the Hunter Elementary school for the gifted at Hunter Teachers College. There are 3 gifted elementary schools in NYC, besides a bunch of G&T.

But some government issue. They have to use the OLSAT now. No SB results allowed. Hence, my question of advocacy. You test at 4. I do not know which SB test is being used at this point. The school decides.

But this OLSAT business seems a bit ridiculous. I know a child that scored 87th percentile last year on the SB and got into the city gifted school. The OLSAT results were not correlated at all.

Ren

My only experience with the OLSAT is anecdotal, so please take this with a grain of salt.

I teach at a magnet school, and we look at OLSAT scores when our kids apply. We don't have a cutoff, but I always look at them when I'm reviewing an application. Having said that, I have taught kids with high OLSAT scores who I thought were clearly gifted (based on classroom experiences). I've had others who were in GATE because of OLSAT scores, and I've questioned whether they're gifted. I've got one this year, in fact. She struggles daily in my class, and there's no way she's gifted.

To sum it up, the OLSAT is a school ability test and not an IQ test, so there will surely be some cases where the OLSAT scores overestimate or underestimate a kid's abilities. My DD9 will take the OLSAT in the spring, and I'm hoping it will qualify her for GATE services. DD9 did not pass screening with the NNAT (nonverbal only), but she's highly verbal and probably gifted. The school system will not give individual IQ tests for those who don't pass screening.

It's unfortunate that schools have to use screening instruments such as these, but they simply can't afford to give an IQ test to too many kids. What's worse is that some systems (like ours) won't accept private testing.

I hope that you have a good outcome with the OLSAT. If not, fight it with scores in hand.

I think I was a bit convoluted when writing.

Hunter elementary uses SB, maybe SB4 this year.

3 gifted public schools use OLSAT, plus all the G%T use the same results from the OLSAT.

I did submit a link to some research that showed poor correlation between very high scores on the SB. In fact, high scorers on the SB tended to do poorly on the OLSAT.

Hence my question about advocacy.

Ren

Sorry missed the question. Last year, they just took the highest scores. Don't even know what the cut off was. This year it is limited to 97th percentile and above. Though only the top scorers get the 150 seats available.

Ren

Hi Wren,

I have a very good friend in NYC who has a daughter at Hunter and a younger one at?? (not Anderson but a new GT school) Do you want me to see if she would be willing to be in touch with you?
aline

Man, that's not good news for my DD's, who will have to do well on the OLSAT to qualify for GT services in my district. Does the link specify what kinds of kids are scoring lower on the OLSAT? Are they more verbal kids, visual learners, or a mixed bag of gifted kids?

Wren,

I'm pretty sure it's NEST.

Nest is a newer school that runs K-12 and it looks great, but it is difficult location. They choose some land that needed gentrification and the subway is far away.

This is the material I found:

The most common group intelligence tests, OLSAT and CogAT, are used successfully in districts and programs across the country. Notable gifted professionals recommend them for screening potentially gifted children. However, a small study noted a potential problem with the OLSAT and very gifted children. While the correlation between group and individual intelligence tests is quite high for average scores, in this study that correlation almost disappeared for gifted scores. This means that while an average child will score very similarly on a group IQ test and an individual IQ test, a gifted child may not score similarly at all. And the study suggests that this group test may even result in a negative correlation for some gifted children: the more gifted the child, the lower the group ability test score! ["Investigations of the Otis-Lennon School Ability Test to Predict WISC-R Full Scale IQ for Referred Children" by Anna H. Avant and Marcia R. O'Neal, University of Alabama, Nov. 1986, ED286883] Though this study is no longer available from AskERIC, it can be obtained on microfiche from most education university libraries.

Thank you for offering to put your friend in touch with me.

I am very aggressive in my advocacy for my DD3. Since I am a product of accelerated education, I believe in making sure you are challenged.

We are going to see Hunter after they finish with 2008 admissions. I have already been in touch with them. Anderson, NEST and TAG, the 3 public gifted elementary schools have just changed. With the OLSAT requirement and now no on-site second screenings. I also wonder how it will change the school population? It may not be an optimal choice if you get more average to bright kids instead of gifted.

Ren

We have already had her tested, at 2 and a week ago. The first time was for a gifted preschool application. She was a month too young. We decided to test her again just to 1) get her used to the concept of test, so she would be fine with the SB requirement for kindergarten and 2) to see how she was tracking. There is no question that she is at least highly gifted. The psychologist remembered her and talked at length with us.

So I am not worried about how she will test to get into these schools, except for the OLSAT. But also wondering if that option is not as desirable.

Ren