Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Recommended Resources Math/reading for young VSL's

How do you START teaching addition, etc to a pretty much wholey VSL (DS4) who gets things as a whole? Hints please. He memorizes numbers like phone numbers as a group, and has no problem with that. And he can write it down; so it's not totally a group in his head, I think??? He learned counting by two's with marshmallow bribes..."you can have as many as you can count to." He gets things in aha moments. His reading is much the same. He can sound out words but prefers to read known sight words first or guess on the non-memorized ones;so he is kind of stagnant at just under 2nd grade level. I have "Upside Brilliance...VSL." Will it tell me in there? I haven't gotten far enough into it yet. I am looking for more instant gratification/answers. Thank you!

I don't know, but i am very interested in answers to this. DD is very VSL as well, she is the same way with reading. She knows how to sound things out but preers to read known sight words and words tha she recognizes, although she will ask, i will tell, and then she knows...i am wondering abut math as well.

Hands-on, as you did with the marshmallow counting, is what I'd recommend. Anything they can manipulate and move around has worked well for my probably-VSL kids. My kids actually like using paper and pencil a lot, too, so don't rule that out. Seeing it on paper or in a book can work for some visual learners.

But be patient. Since it comes as an "aha" to these kids a lot of the time, they aren't always the ones who are way ahead in achievement at these young ages, but they can jump way ahead all of a sudden. Fits and starts seems to be pretty common.

I hope you get more help than mine. I'm reading with great interest!

Always appreciate your tips! DS is not a workbook kid; but who knows, things have been changing so fast lately. He gets the adding part but can't recite it to me, yet.

I wouldn't do workbooks. Just pencil and paper. Let him write a problem for you to solve, then you write one for him to do. My 5yo LOVES that game.

I always walk through how I solve his problems with him as I solve them--and some are complicated!--so that he hears and sees what I'm doing as I do it. It seems to work reasonably well.

That's a good idea! Thanks, Kriston. He'll like that a lot.

Oh, and sometimes I get part of the problem wrong on purpose so that he has to correct me. He likes that, too.

But arithmetic really came to him virtually all at once (except division) right around 4.5yo. Before that, he was counting, but nothing exceptional was happening that I could see. When it blossomed, it came on fast. This was helped by toys/games like Bakugon and Pokemon. The cards require adding, subtracting and/or multiplying (depending upon the game and the cards they get) to play, so he was highly motivated to figure it out. By the time he was 5yo and a couple of months, DS5 was multiplying 2 digits in his head.

This may be utterly irrelevant for your DS, of course, but it's something to think about. A lot of GT kids really like that sort of mathy game.

I know someone else really into them. I didn't know what they were all about though. cool Is there a specific Bakugon or Pokemon card game, or is there only one of each?

There are lots of Pokemon cards and Bakugan balls/cubes, so you can spend a fortune on them if you're not careful. But there's only one game of each. All Pokemon stuff works together, and the same with Bakugan stuff.

Be prepared, though. You'll hear more about these things than you ever cared to if your DS is into one or the other, and you may wind up cursing my name for suggesting it! It gets oooooold!

Oh, and they are battles. Bloodless battles, but battles nonetheless. If that bothers you, it could be a problem.

Also, I don't allow kids to battle for keeps (so that they lose their Pokemon cards or their Bakugon) and I monitor trades. There's a 10yo in the neighborhood who was preying on DS5 last year. Grrr... It's good to make that sort of rule upfront.

Thank you. I looked it up and had to go to bed before going through the video "how to play." Ha, I did get the battle part. Thanks for the tips. I am going to PM you with one more question (for now:) - hope you don't mind.

Of course not. HTH!

@amazedmom: I just started DS on Time4learning today (online curriculum). You can try it out for two weeks free (after paying up front - $19.99/mth) - which I think is reasonable for Math, Language Arts and Science; and it makes DS sound out each sound and recognize each sound in a word as well, instead of the typical c-at: cat. It will say for example: which one (animated character) sounds out hog; then you move the cursor over the three options, one sounding out the following letters (eg.) o-g, next h-o-g, next h-o. So they really have to listen closely. Hopefully it will help. He and I really liked it though, so far. I had to sit with him the whole time; because some of the directions had to be read??

@Kriston: Are you using any online curriculum? Thanks for all you ideas! (this was going to be my PM:)

Don't know if it'll help or not, but when DS was showing an interest, DH made up a game. He'd hold up X number of fingers and say "let's add X more". Then, with a flourish and great sound effects, he'd add the fingers and DS would count them. As it progressed, DS would come up with the factors and tell Dad to do the game. He did the same with subtraction and called it the "Take Away Game". DS seemed to really like it. Of course, this only works up to 10, .

He has no problem with counting; it is the memorizing. He can visualize how many are in a group of something by counting them in his head (not using his finger to count them) if there are less than 10 or 12. Thank you though!

Plato Science. It's geared to 6th-9th grade, and it has been a big hit for DS8. He loves it!

I just have to make sure that he remembers to turn on the words on the screen and not just try to listen. He has to see the words or he replays it over and over and over. He doesn't mind, but it drives me INSANE and it makes him take forever to get done. The words on the screen fix that.

Otherwise, we bought Descartes' Cove for math, and he uses that from time to time. (Not online, but on the computer.) We also use bits and pieces like www.freerice.org and a free geography game (the address is on the other computer, so I don't have that right now, but can find it this weekend if you want it).

That's it. Most of our stuff is from books, with some--mainly math and grammar--from workbooks.

Thank you...I would like it. Trying free stuff is always helpful. Since I am just starting, I am unsure what will work. Plus, that's a great hint on seeing the words - typical for VSLs?

plato science looks really cool!

Well, I figure that seeing the words is easier than just hearing the computer talk, right? At least the input is visual instead of aural.

I'm a visual learner, though not visual-spatial. Seeing the words certainly helps me, and it seems to help DS8.

DS8 has done nearly all of the 3 Plato Science programs. (One expired before the end of our year, and we were close enough to done, that I didn't renew it.) He really likes them, and it's something that he can mostly do by himself now. (Not so much at the start of last year, when he was just barely 7yo, but now it's no problem.) It has turned him on to chemistry in a big way!

I like Plato because it is very visual, but it's also nicely interactive. The kids do things like diagnose what's wrong with a cell using a machine that tells them the cells symptoms. Then the child has to say that the mitochondria is not working, for example.

And the content really seems geared to the 7-9yo HG+ kid without talking down to them. The material is challenging. DS8 rarely gets 100% on the tests, which I LOVE! He's actually having to work at it! And he remembers the material. It sticks!

I don't love the time slots. That's a fairly recent development. It's a limitation. But it's a good product and I give it my highest recommendation, especially for visual learners.

Board games with 2 dice
"Look 2 plus 1 more means you get to move 3 spaces."

Leave one dice on 1 and roll the other one it will not take long before the wires connect and they realize the pattern of 1 more.

then do the 2's and so on.. can also be done on a number line.

Also use every day situations to talk about math. "You have 10 snacks and I give you 2 more how many will you have? What if I eat 2 of your snacks?"

Thanks, Ladies. We were riding in the car today; and I tried the let's add game...you give me one and I'll give you one (I did realize that you were supposed to do it with paper; but I wanted to put in in his head for later). It did't last long; but I had an alterior motive. Next came, let's try counting by 5's - he got it, then 10's - he got it. He is so puzzling sometimes - but he had a playdate the other day and his firend mentioned that he could count by 5's and 10's; so maybe that triggered the interest???:) Or maybe he just needed time again. We'd tried them about 3 weeks ago to no avail. I am one to bring everday things into play all the time. I wasn't this way before, and didn't think I could do it (my mother-in-law is a pro at this); but lately I feel like I have been given the gift.:) We were on time4learning again today. He liked it again. I think that he likes that I sit with him and am available to him...even if it's just for emotional/cheering-him-on support. I am sure that he'll want to do it by himself at some point; but he needs to get the system/order of progression first. Thanks again!

I'm not sure how to teach addition or subtraction - it was just there with DS. But I saw him learn multiplication and division in a very visual way.

He started with Star Wars clones and arranged them in grids, all this in preparation for battles with DH. DH's was all over the place, but not so for my son. He was particular, and boy was he upset if one fell over while he was arranging! Anyway, that got too expensive so I persuaded him to try with those cheap battlepacks of soldiers. Worked like a dream! It's a very visual way of learning - he figured out how many soldiers he had depending on the length and width, and if one row or one section got wiped out, he'd figure out how many he'd had left. He also learnt to love certain numbers, 9 being one, because it was "so beautiful".

I'm not sure how to persuade a kid to arrange soldiers into grids the whole day though. In fact, DH was positive DS had Asperger traits at the time.

I was just looking back at this post of mine, and thought that I would update it with what it working amazingly for us. We are using RightStart Math. I say that it is school time and he says "let's do Math." Each lesson starts with a warm up/review (usually 3 things - quick questions for us, so far). Then the lesson incorporates three games into the learning of the material, while using the abacus, blocks, sheets to copy, or other manipulatives that are included in the set (we have the Basic Level B set). Two weeks ago, my DS learned the addition pairings that equal 10...7+3, 4+6...etc. With a cheat sheet that I wrote on paper (because I believe that Math should be written down;) we played the memory game where he had to find a 1 and a 9 as a pair; then we played Old Maid "do you have a 3 to go with my 7?", and one more. We used the cheat sheet a few times, and then I put it away to see if he knew it; and he did. We did it in the car out loud a few times as well. It is a really great program that I am entirely pleased with. We skipped a few lessons and started where we need to; but the games were fun. It comes with a few songs as well on a cd; but we don't use them. Having a copier is nice to have with this so you don't have to use the pages in the workbook, which is not used for every lesson, btw. Just a suggestion to those still looking for something fun and really works well for my very VSL DS5. Yah!

I actually tried Time4Learning for a few days and we both really disliked it, but to each his own. For us, it felt slow and repetitive and too "flashy" but we have never done structured learning, just learn on the fly so to speak. Let me know how it goes for you. Maybe I judged it too quickly.

in some ways I give you credit because you are doing so much to help your child get math. My DD leans towards language / imagination though she has always been good with numbers and spatial reasoning. I taught her skip counting, by just saying the numbers to her. I don't know how deeply she gets it,but that is as deep as I went. As for addition, I just asked, "if two dogs are at the park and two more come, how many are there?" but I am thinking this may mean she isn't as much a visual spatial learner because she has such a strong memory for spoken language and can visualize the two dogs in her head without seeing anything. Honestly, I don't know much about visual spatial learners but everything I just wrote sounds like the opposite since her auditory memory is really strong, but her visual memory is strong too--she learned sight words easily really young and can draw characters from memory--I really don't know what her learning style is.
For the most part, I just tell her things,we read books, or we see things and talk about them and that is it. I know it goes against all the recommendations of early learning that say use manipulatives. Maybe I will try them at some point. Maybe I am just lazy, but she is already ahead so I see no need to teach her anything specific.

Miquon Math http://www.keypress.com/x6252.xml

I agree with you TToes about the T4L being slow, at first; but now it is much quicker. I got impatient with the very slow directions with each step; but my son was slightly less impatient, and he liked it; so we stuck with it. I added other language arts writing and reading to it as well. But he likes reading from it; and he already has about 300 sight words (not due to it though). He picks up a few new words with every lesson. It teaches the rules though in a fun way - and he dislikes workbooks to learn from; so it works for us. Every kid is sooo different. Mine just likes a break from books, etc; so the computer is just a different tool.:) I heard that you can get it for $15/month if you pay for 6 months at a time too...haven't done it yet.

as you said, each kid is different. I really wanted it to work since we don't do workbooks either. We are really low tech here. We mostly just read books and talk about things as they occur in our world. I keep thinking maybe I should do more, but not sure what. I think a learning website could be cool, but the Time4Learning just didn't click for us. I canceled it two days into it so maybe I gave up too soon. If anyone knows of any other similar sites, I'd be interested in hearing about them. I think she would mostly enjoy learning science.

TToes, I was honestly going to give up on it as well; so I get it. I even called a friend who was using it and asked her (whose DS is PG) if it got faster and harder, and she said yes, and that parts of it even made her laugh. So we stuck with it. We use it for science as well. Then I add books to it from the library. I balance out the Language Arts portion with "My Father's World" Language Arts; but it is very Christian-based and I can see how this would not be a good fit for many. I was not looking for a Christian-based curriculum at all. I am a Christian but was a little weirded out by the cover initially, thinking that it may be too churchy (my DH gave me a funny look when I showed it to him;) - but I went to a homeschool expo, flipped through all the pages; and it fit in with where my son was, and what he could tolerate doing in a workbook - short and succinct. Anyway:), I have the ability to go through the writing book and match word rule parts to what we're working on in T4L for some writing and fun things. So it's fine for now. I am fortunate that my husband trusts me wholey in this.

Kriston recommended Plato for science a while back:
http://www.plato.com/Services-K12.aspx

And here are a few that I haven't looked into yet; but I save recommendations from this site for future reference.

http://www.atozteacherstuff.com/Lesson_Plans/Science/index.shtml

Astronomy:
http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/StarChild.html
http://www.kidsastronomy.com/solar_system.htm

Try putting online science curriculum in the search engine in this forum and see what you get. Best wishes and good luck!!!