Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Learning needs of those in different IQ ranges...

CAMom, maybe I'm misunderstanding your point or maybe schools where you are are very different from schools where I am. Where I am, in primary schools, almost all teachers teach almost all periods - teachers do not have significant amounts of time during the school day when they are not teaching. To remove this constraint would make schools more expensive, because they'd have to appoint more teachers. So however you juggle children and classes and teachers, if you teach maths to all the children in the school at the same time, then almost all of the teachers employed by the school have to be teaching maths at that time. So the only way teachers having multiple specialisms helps is if almost *every* teacher has a maths specialism (possibly along with some others). That is inconceivable in the UK, at least as a general policy that could be applied in all schools: most teachers do not have the level of maths confidence or competence that would let them have such a thing.

I have to agree that it varies so much by child as far as their educational needs go.

For example - ds9 tests at the 98.6% and totally shut down in the regular classroom. Even with a few pull outs he was crazy bored. Now in a GT classroom (most kids average IQ around 130) he still excels and probably could go a bit deeper in most areas.

On the other hand, dd7 was grade skipped and in full time GT classroom. She has DYS scores but haven't applied yet. She still could care less about most academics and behind most of her classmates. She probably could have done just fine in a regular classroom at least at this point in her school career. I don't think she would have minded the easy work.

We have friends with a very PG son and he's in a regular classroom at a low achieving school. Subject accelerated but he wants to stay with age mates and deals with the regular work just fine.

So it just depeneds.

By the way, our local elem. does the ability grouping so that the math oriented teachers teach the highly able students and they switch classes several times a day even as early as 3rd grade. It does seem pretty easy to do.

What I've seen in schools that work this way is that the least 'math-understanding' teachers teach at the very lowest levels, and the kids who 'drink math' skip right over those classrooms.

Hiring teachers who know lots about their favorite subjects will help.

Having kids be able to be graded against multiple rubics is something I would love to see much more of. That way a kid who is too tiny to write clearly, but needs to be in High School level classes can take them for as many years as nescessary. Like reading a good book over when you have more life experience!

Smiles,
Grinity

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying on a IQ testing report they give a range?

I work in a middle school and have been in a high school before in the US. This is how all the teacher periods are structured and students have 6-8 teachers in a day, depending on how the school is structured. If we used this model more in our elementary schools, you wouldn't have to hire more teachers, you'd simply have to have the students rotate classes more often. For example:

You have 5 groups of 20 students. You would have 6 teachers. At any given time, all 5 teachers are teaching their subject matter. Then they swap around. It works best if you have an area or two that do not necessarily need to be leveled- like PE or technology. It does take some work to make the scheduling come together but it's completely possible. We do it every year with 3 grades of students who need 6 different levels of math and 5 levels of Language Arts. It's not always a perfect fit but it's far better than saying "You're in 2nd grade, so you get 2nd grade math. End of discussion."

I have no range data on any of the IQ or achievement testing that any of my children have been given. Am I missing data?

Yes there is more specialization in anyone with a single authorization. I'm in California so I can't speak for every state but we do it like most other states. I am authorized to teach social studies in any K-12 classroom or adult vocational class. But I'm not authorized to teach "elementary" school because I do not have that authorization. As long as I wasn't in a situation where I had to teach math, like in a class with the same students all day, there is no reason I couldn't teach a bunch of different social studies classes.

To get an authorization, you need to either have a bachelor's degree in your subject, a master's degree or pass an extensive examination PLUS take your 5th year teaching certification.

However, to teach elementary school, in most cases you need a "liberal studies" degree or an education degree and that's it. Some programs wrap in the 5th year certification into the liberal studies degree, some don't. This is why you find elementary teachers that can't teach math very well. They don't have upper level math classes themselves, in most cases- they only have a class in "how to teach elementary school math." I haven't had math since high school. My teaching credential included a class called "Computers for the Educator" which was my math class.....

We digress, sorry!

I'm trying to collect information that says DS needs appropriate education and be able to speak about it. Dottie- I'm not sure I asked my question the right way before. so I'll try again.

Here is an example from Genuis Denied:
A score of 145 occurs in the population roughly once in on thousand.

Here is an example that would state he is different enough from most students but he misses by 5 points. So does the school conclude he is not in the category? If he had 5 points more he would really need help then? I know this sound silly but I want to be able to approach them with facts not almost. So can I not use this?

example from Genuis Denied:
The problem becomes most acute in what we call "highly gifted students, which in education parlance meant IQs of at least 145 ....

Once again this would be a wonderful quote but he missed by 5 points.

So can I use the quotes to get their attention and validate the need or is it no good because it's only close?

I keep seeing this 145 IQ number in many valuable references.

I'm not seeing the 140 in references. If they are not relating to it well enough now then I think a reference could be so helpful.

Thank you for your patience. That is very helpful.

In the principal's mindset, DS is being grouped with all the other gifted kids. Principal said, it's ok if it's easy for him. I would say school is beyond easy. It's insulting. I'm just trying to find ways they can understand he needs more and can do more. If I could present something factual that may help.