Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy New DYS form

I've been working on the DYS application for last few days and just realized that Davidson has published a new application form. I wanted to let you know (and hopefully safe you some work) in case you plan to apply in the near future.

The 2008 form is different from the 2007 form. It no longer includes the milestone section where you need to write down the age of certain milestones. That sure makes my life easier. I am glad I won't have to go through old videos and e-mails trying to figure out when DS5 could read the clock or wrote/type his first words. I noticed a few other small changes on the first page and a missing Characteristics section. Either way it looks like I will be starting with an empty form again but at least I have something to copy and paste.

Anybody else thinks about applying in January?


LMom

They've amended the form slightly over the years, but this sounds like the biggest change yet. I'll have to go check it out! I already had the milestone form started for dd who is two. It looks like I can toss it.

Thanks for the heads up, Lmom, and good luck with your son's app!

Happy New Year Lorel - Don't toss that Milestone chart, you never know if you'll need it for Ruf Estimated Giftedness levels. ((Humor Alert - I know you aren't as enchanted as I))
Big Smiles,
Grinity

Ok, Trin, I will risk the stone throwing and say that I don't quite agree with her levels. It's nice to have a different paradigm to work with, but I feel the "sorting hat" isn't quite right, KWIM?

DD two seems to be her own person, but I can clearly see she is in the same ballpark as her sibs. She might not have any 2e issues, either, which would be novel.

Happy New Year, dear Trinity, and thanks for all that you do!

I'm glad you are throwing Lorel, because if we each pipe up with our own actaul experiences, then we have a better chance of finding the truth. I will say that the Ruf Milestones Chart don't seem to help 2E kids much in general. I will also say that my son wasn't reading till the middle of 1st grade, and I can't remember most of his other milestones because I wasn't thinking in that direction. What I love about Ruf's estimated levels of giftedness is that it helps me think about LOG.

Also, I think that any "IQ test" be in WISC or Milestones, establishes a floor, not a limit. Sure there can be a single high test that just doesn't show up in daily life, but for the most part, parents of small children what to be assured that they aren't making this whole thing up. I sure did when I was freaking out that DS wasn't reading at 4 when he knew the whole alphabet at 2. EVeryone else thought I was off my rocker! So - the official Grinity take is that if you child is fitting the profile of a Level III, IV, or V they are, and if they are not fitting the profile but you think that they are HG or PG, they the child just needs a different 'test.' In the end, Gifted is as Gifted does, and a child that is thriving in a learning environment that is designed for ND kids who are 3 or more years older, well, yes, you've got a HG or PG kid. In the very end, if the child can be taught at their readiness level, and the family can stay sane, do we really need any label at all?

Smiles,
Grinity

Does anyone know of research to support the idea that early development of walking, puzzles, speech, etc. is associated with GT levels later in life?


I don't know how to move this quote in the cool little box.

I read something about this very topic quite recently. Unfortunately, I read a lot of books, journals, and online stuff, and cannot recall the source. I will see what I can find and hope to share it soon.

Anecdotally, in my family, we have a late walker who has hypotonia and didn't walk independently until 15 months. We also have three who were walking well months before their first birthday, the earliest at seven months. She is diagnosed hyperactive, and there are sources that cite early walking as a very common attribute of kids later diagnosed as hyperactive.

{She holds her own in the GT class, but doesn't need it, necessarily.}

Could this have more to do with personality?

Incog

Unfortunately, I do believe that WMI has a significant effect on how one does in a traditional school setting. Being able to memorize those facts and regurgitate them is what the teachers are looking for, it's how a lot of the tests are set up so the teacher can make sure the student is learning the info. I can see how a super smart kid with not a super high WMI might get frustrated sometimes.
I was frustrated with that myself. I didn't really come into my own until the upper level college levels. That's when they were really asking to see what you could do with the information as opposed to how you memorize it.
FYI, I felt stupid when I was your daughter's age and when the principal told me of my IQ report, I actually thought he was lying.
On the other hand, by the time I got to college, I had several professors who really took me under their wings and it made all the difference in the world. I'm glad your daughter has a great GT teacher!

Incog

Good point about the WMI, Incog! I think that's a very smart comment.

I see what you are saying. Did I get this wrong, but I thought I read a while ago she had a pretty impressive PRI and ability? And I'll tell you something else, none of these tests capture creative ability as far as I'm concerned.
Those two things are a pretty powerful combo, especially when you are talking real life scenario, ie: how well one operates in career, etc.
As for VCI, DD7 going on 13, is much like your daughter. I absolutely know what her abilities are, but here's a typical conversation:
Me: How was school?
DD7: good
Me: What did you do today?
DD7: good
Me: Your zipper is down.
DD7: good.
And this is starting to spill over to school. When she is working below her ability level, she has taken to given the answer in exactly as few words as humanly possible. I think she gives herself bonus points for answering in one word sentences.

I feel like I have to balance sticking up for her at school, with not letting her off the hook. I'm not sure sure a snotty one word answer at school is acceptable, even if it is technically correct. If anyone has come up with an effective way to handle that, I'd really love to hear what it is!!!

Incog
p.s. This is kinda bold so please take with a grain of salt. Perhaps her IQ is not an overestimate. Maybe it is actually in line but for some reason it's not as applicable in the school setting. So, the proof of it is not as evident. I was told siblings are usually not more than 10 IQ points apart. Additionally, I read somewhere that up to 20% of high school dropouts are GIFTED. If that's an accurate number, it tells a signifcant story in my opinion. Oh well, just pondering....

Well D, I know you have a test to write, sorry to keep at you but I just had to express one more thought

"Despite this, the same psych tested DS9 and DD10, and seemed convinced that DD10 would go further in life, given her complete package of strengths and weaknesses."

And I thought I was making a bold statement. No disrespect to DD10, and I'm sure she will go far in life, no doubt. But, how do you make a comparable prediction like that about 9 and 10 year olds?
With that said, on paper I was the scholastic weakling in my family from k-12. I was probably voted most likely to escape from prison one day........:)
In terms of "career success", I actually went further faster than anyone else in the family while I was working IRL.
All of your three kids seem awesome and will go on the do amazing things and have great lives,,,I mean, with a mom like you how could they not??
I think the most important thing is you know each one of your children and have made sure they each have an appropriate placement in terms of education. You're clearly paying attention to what goes on with them and that's just amazing parenting.

Will stay off subject now!!

Incog

Dottie - thank you for the guide on posting the pretties - I've been dying to know how to do it! What about the cute faces? Do they have an easy way too??

Incog - did you have to work the hardest in your family to obtain your successes? Did things come easier to everyone else? I have noticed that sometimes in those that everything comes easy to early in life, they don't have as much of a work ethic and aren't as successful later on in life as those with maybe not as much natural ability, but with a better work ethic. kwim?? I also think that when things come too easily it can make people not want to have to work at things because they aren't used to failing and if things don't come easily right at first, they don't want to try because they are afraid they might fail and this holds them back in life. Whereas for those who have to work hard at an earlier age aren't afraid of failing and therefore, try more things and maybe wind up more successful. Not in all cases of course, but sometimes.

As I read back over this I realize it is somewhat rambling but I don't know how to say it any better. Reading about your "most likely to escape from prison" (which I admit made me laugh) made me think about this. :-)

Well, I was just kidding about the most likely to escape from prison comment, and I was going for a cheap laugh!
However, I perpetrated more than my fair share of mischief, especially in Jr. High.
I'll try to answer your question, but I don't think any of these situations are straight forward or easily boxed in for any kids, let alone the gifted ones.
I think work ethic AND personality have a lot to do with anyone's success, but I'm not sure my work ethic is significantly more solid than anyone else's in my family.
It would probably be fair to say that I am the most strong willed. Maybe that's the key, who knows. I have a great work ethic when I decide I want to do something, KWIM?
That said, I think imposter syndrome, perfectionism and fear of failure are big concerns with gifted kids growing up, especially girls. But I also think the people posting on this board are extrememly attuned to what's going on with their kids, so any issues that may come up can be resolved.
Also, I'm not sure school came easier to my sibs,per se, but I'm pretty sure being able to tolerate boredom and frustration came more easily to them and that might have been the key. Again, that has more to do with personality. I will say if any child is easily bored, has low frustration tolerance, has ability to outsmart the teacher and knows it; well, that could be problematic in any school setting.
So, let's see if I can sum this up. If I had to attribute my lack of k-12 school success in relation to my intellectual ability to one thing it would be: Low frustration tolerance. However, if this had been recognized when I was young, I'm sure it could have become a non-issue with the right amount of help.
Success in college would probably be attributed to finally having something interesting to do.
Success in career as an adult: who knows? Maybe a combination or working smart and hard? A good friend of mine in business once told me that success was the ability to withstand repeated failure without losing your enthusiasm to be successful. I would agree with this. Actually, while I dropped out of the workforce to have kids, he kept on and is currently extremely, enormously successful. Did I answer your question? Or just rambling?

Incog

Very interesting reflection, Incog.

What you're saying here is precisely why raising resiliant kids is so important to me. It's also one of the reasons I worry so much about kids having everything come easily in school. If you never fail, it becomes hard to face failure and try again, hard to know what acceptable/necessary risk looks like, hard to make even a small mistake without feeling like you've lost your identity. That's not healthy.

I'm strong-willed, but I don't think I'm a very resiliant person. That is one of my greatest flaws, I think. I want my kids to "bounce back" better than I do.

As I said, interesting...

Incog - I knew you were kidding about the prison thing!!! And you did answer my question - thanks. Dottie, I'll try to restrain myself from going crazy with the commands so I don't end up in prison myself - LOL!!! I totally agree that people on this board are going to take care of problems with their kids. I wasn't even thinking about that - you know I think the people here are amazing and I am in awe of all of you!!!

Incog, your comment actually made me think about the people that have come and gone in my life and what they have made of themselves. I recently had my 20 year reunion and it was very interesting to see how some of the people you would have expected to change the world wound up doing basically nothing while others that weren't necessarily considered to be ones "most likely to succeed", really far out-shown lots of other people with their chosen careers - doctors and lawyers, etc. But success is determined in far different ways. Most people wouldn't consider me to be successful as I don't have a high powered job but I am doing what I love working part time and spending lots of time with my kids. So to me, I am successful. I know everyone defines success in different ways and that can't be put in a box either. Maybe success is being happy and content with where you are and what you're doing???

Kriston said I totally agree with this. I think experiencing failure doesn't have to be in an academic setting. It can be in sports or just losing a chess game to your parent. Kids can learn how to make those mistakes and then move on without it crushing their self esteem so that they are afraid to ever make a mistake.

Anyway, I definitely agree that people can't be boxed in and that personality does probably play a large part in how much you are willing to risk in order to try to succeed. I enjoy these kinds of musings and I appreciate that the people on this board with go there with me! I don't have anyone much in my non-internet life that I can talk about these kinds of things with! :-)