Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Anyone NOT grade-skipped or accelerated?

I'd love to hear from those of you who have NOT grade-skipped or accelerated, or at least can help advise me. Acceleration or grade-skips are not an option right now. And DS needs the basic academic skills, as his first grade test results show basically a twelfth grade level for comprehension, and pretty much grade level for academic skills (reading, writing, basic math). He was absolutely miserable in his last school and I can't tell you how badly we feel for keeping him there through first grade. Everyone told us we had to teach him to stick it out, that he doesn't get to decide that he doesn't like school, that we can't keep moving him, etc., etc. Over the last several weeks, I've done a lot of reading on this site and others and can't tell you how alarming it is to have read the characterisitics of profoundly gifted children and to see how well they describe DS (of course, other than the self-taught academic skills, but we were told in his evaluation that there is an explanation for that), and to realize that his interest in reading and writing pretty much stalled with the start of school (and we did nothing outside of school, because all school work was tainted by his experience in school). We've been dealing with all of this in a vaccuum, i.e., apart from the gifted part of the equation. School is better for him this year (though not ideal), but again no one in school is addressing the gifted side of the equation (and he is all too happy not to have to really work in school). He needs to have fun in school, but I'm concerned that he won't learn how to "work" if he's not at all challenged. To keep his options open, I have enrolled him in a CTY math and EPGY language arts course. We don't care how advanced he is or is not, we just want him to be happy. So, what would you do? It seems that everyone here has in-school grade-skips or acceleration in place. Thanks!

Well, I'm no help either ... ds5 is in K, certainly ready for more, but didn't do well enough on the school's test to qualify for acceleration. As you may already know, we're pushing for more -- I can totally see ds ending up hating school, and I want to keep that from happening! So we're pushing for acceleration, but nothing is happening right now. Just a really smart kid in the K classroom.

To be fair, his reading group is advanced (though not nearly on par with what he reads at home) and he does get extra math worksheets -- but he's supposed to do them during "choice center" time! That's their play time, and the teacher seems to think that because he doesn't want to learn over playing, he must not be that smart after all.

Ah, the academic conundrum. I hope others are able to help! It's such a frustrating position to be in, when you know your child is extremely bright but it's not showing up on the school's assessments.

I may not have the experience you're looking for either, but the reason we pulled DS6 out of his public school 1st grade was because his un-skipped, un-accelerated classroom was making him miserable. His learning stalled, his attitude was lousy, and he was no longer the sunny boy we had sent to school. (Sound familiar?)

We had to make a change, and it was good for him. We're home schooling now, but what we're doing with him really does amount to at least a full-grade skip plus extra subject acceleration in reading and science. (Maybe more than one grade--I'm not using a packaged curriculum for anything but math, so I'm not sure at what level he's operating right now. He's in the middle of a reading-level test right now so I can get a better sense of his comprehension.)

To be clear: I certainly don't think school should be all about entertainment for a kid, and I'm absolutely pro-work ethic. Not all of of life is fun and games, and I don't think a teacher's job is to dance like a clown to keep kids' attention...

...BUT I also feel just as strongly that boredom and misery don't have to be present to make that work-ethic thing happen. In fact, I think they're 100% opposed to developing a good work ethic. If you're bored and miserable, you're going to learn to hate work, not to find the joy in it. How does that teach a kid anything except to avoid work? Why would anyone want to work if all they know is that it's boring and makes them feel bad about themselves?

And I'd love to ask those who told you that "He doesn't get to decide he doesn't like school"...Why doesn't he? All kids--ND and GT alike--know from birth know what they like and don't like. I know that for me, one of the things I hope to help my kids to find is work that is fulfilling for them, work that is a reflection of their life and values, work that feels good--fun!--to them to do. Why should school be any different than what I hope for them to have in the rest of their life? They have values and goals now, so why shouldn't school mesh with that? I don't know why people make that out to be some sort of power struggle and that you'd be a pushover if you respected his feelings about school. I just don't buy it.

I guess what I'm saying is that there's a difference between the spoiled kid who hates school because he always gets his way at home and he doesn't at school (which seems to be what the "make him stick it out" people are assuming is the problem), and the kid who hates school because he WANTS to work and think but doesn't get to at school (which seems to be what's really going on). Two very different issues! I think you're right that a lack of challenge in school is not going to do your son any favors.

FWIW, our DS6 is working so much harder and is so much happier since we took him out of the regular classroom. He loves the more challenging work. He's sunny and happy again. And he's not winning some power struggle; I'm much tougher on him than his teacher was! (Albeit in more effective ways...)

It seems to me that you have some extra issues to deal with in your son's case. I'm not sure I'm clear on what exactly those are, however--does your son have an LD, or is he just asynchronous? That will affect your best course of action, of course.

Maybe you could clarify for me?

Happy Holidays!

True. I know I turned my boredom into perfectionism. My DH and our DS6 turned theirs into mildly disruptive behavior--just enough to get under their teachers' skins! DH also shows ticks from time-to-time when bored or stressed, and DS and I don't really do that. (Unless you count my cuticle biting...or is that TMI, maybe? )

Different personalities...

Maybe, or maybe some kids just don't appear to care about being bored as much.

I think my teachers and parents would have said that I wasn't bored, when I really was. (And I don't remember anyone ever asking me if I was bored. We don't ask kids that question, do we?!) I just "acted out" in socially acceptable ways that made authority figures feel good about themselves and about me, whereas my DH and DS act/ed out in ways that led to frustrated and/or annoyed authority figures.

I don't know that I was any less bored than DH and DS were (well, maybe DS was more bored, having seen his class in action...); I just didn't act in ways that demanded action.

Interesting. I always wonder if "boredom" means different things to different people. Beyond your DD10's ability to engage and take things to a deeper level, which is such a great skill, I also think some GT kids have such an active inner life and imagination that they welcome the opportunity to be "bored" in school so they can live in their heads for a while. Maybe less imaginative kids--especially those reared on TV and video games--require more external stimulation?

Just a theory...

Questions,

My DD7 is in a similar situation. She doesn't want to grade skip right now. I'm not pushing it because the gifted program starting in third grade amounts to a 1 year grade skip and the magnet amounts to a 2 year grade skip, from what I'm told. It's been challenging keeping her engaged. Sometimes the teacher has a little flexibility to give the child different work in the classroom. It's worth a try. I know that my DD can put up with some repetitive work, but not all repetitive. She does better even if she can have a little time each day to be challenged. FWIW I am investigating home schooling. I'm not ready to commit to it right now, but I am preparing for it and collecting resources if I need to in the future.
I understand what some are telling you, that your child doesn't get to decide that he doesn't like school. DH and I do all of our advocating unbeknownst to DD's. They don't need to be involved, it's not their responsibility to fix the problem. I do believe that it is okay for DD to understand there are times at school things won't go her way. You have to go along to get along.......However, she should not be bored, understimulated, not learning anything ALL the time. The school setting is what it is and I've accepted that neither daughter will get all thay they need educationally, that's why I "afterschool". However, it's a balancing act and if the child is experiencing stress at being continuously underchallenged, I think you have to do something about that. There are no simple solutions or easy answers. If school is not doing anything extra to make sure my child has a good education, shame on them. If this is happening and I know about it and am not doing anything about it, shame on me.
I have tried to find resources to support their interests. We "play" at math and LA activities at home. I take them to area museums as often as possible and look for free classes there. They each get private music lessons. I'm trying out a home school science group for DD5, it's in the afternoon and she is out of K by then. And when I have noticed the are having issues because of understimulation at school, I start with the their individual teachers and work my way up. I've been in the school alot this year and so far have felt like the school is doing a fair job working with us. I will say I've noticed that the school likes to come up with their own ideas about how to solve the problem. They seem to be okay to work with because I haven't told them what to do, only told them what the problem is. I can't tell you how any of this has worked out because we are still in the middle of it all, kind or like you.
A plan is not a good plan if it's inflexible. Any good plan can be changed at any time.
That's how I feel about this journey I'm taking with my girls. We're all stumbling throught this process the best we can and if Plan A doesn't work out, have Plans B, C, D, E, F, G etc. ready and waiting to go.
And Krison, I hear what you are saying, some GT kids can tolerate boredom, get along, still get good grades. Sadly, I am an example of the worst case scenario of what can happen when a gifted child in not accomodated in school.

Well, good luck questions, wish I had better thoughts for you,

Incog

Thanks for your responses. All interesting and helpful.

I'm happy to say that DS is no longer bored in school. The public school takes a much more active hands-on approach to learning, which DS finds fun. He also likes all of his teachers for the first time (you're right about that one, Dottie), and they don't see him as the enemy. His old school was very rigid and traditional. They pretty much sat in their desks all day the way I did many, many years ago.

Because he was so unhappy in his old school, we haven't pushed at all. Now, however, I'm concerned because the public school seems to be at least a year behind the area private schools in math (and who knows what else - I'm not as well informed as I used to be). I don't want him to be basically repeating a year. What happens next year, or the year after, when he is finally challenged? I wonder, though, if he would have been happier in a higher grade originally, although around here, no one would ever suggest it (this is red-shirt central, after all).

And there's no doubt that he'd love to be home-schooled. Maybe I can look into supplementing his academics through home-schooling. Fact is he does most of his learning on his own outside of school, so in essence, he's already being home-schooled. I just never knew it was an option. I suppose it would be a good use of my time to read up on home schooling. If there were other children like him being home schooled in the area, it could be very interesting (although difficult for me to do). And I like the idea of looking for a home schooling science class he could join - thanks for that idea, Incog. Meanwhile, we do a lot of reading and web surfing (and trips) on our own.

As for the LD, Kriston, the public school defines the discrepancy between his IQ and achievement scores as a LD (which is actually very helpful for us in such a huge school - 1200 kids in grade k-2!). And they have been great at helping him with his weaknesses (he also receives OT for fine motor skills and sensory issues). But his strengths have been ignored - completely. And that's my quandary. Do we keep him in public school where it's easy and he's supported, or do we move him to a different private school with top academics and more children like him where he'll find friends, but may suffer again if his basic academic skills aren't up to par by September? (The big issue on this one is the early January application deadline.) And if we don't accelerate him, are we doing him a disservice (i.e., is acceleration always the answer)? Not the same conundrum you have, Mia, but difficult nonetheless.

Happy Holidays, everyone!

Thanks for the reminder about your son's situation, Questions. As a visual person, I find that I often have a hard time keeping people's situations straight on the forum since I can't see faces. Please forgive my forgetfulness.

Let me preface what I'm about to say with this: I don't think every kid needs to be home schooled. It's just one more possibility in the list of possible educational options as far as I'm concerned. We've tried public school, home school, and now we're considering a private gifted school for next year, so I really have no deep allegiances with any educational philosophy. But with that said...

I do think that in some cases, home schooling is a wonderful and highly useful possibility. It has been a lifesaver for us this year, and we don't even have the extra challenge of LD issues that you have.

If you just want to supplement what's happening in the school building, that's considered "afterschooling" and it's a type of home schooling, too. I think afterschooling can tend to be harder to do well, since you get a kid who comes home already tired (and possibly frustrated and cranky) from a long day of school. But how afterschooling goes has a lot to do with the specific child's personality and school fit, I think. If afterschooling works for your child, it's a fantastic option! (It wouldn't have worked for our DS, who was so cranky and frustrated after a day of school that he was impossible to deal with!)

As for full-on home schooling, I know that many people with kids who don't really fit the school's template for "the normal kid" can do quite well with it. It allows you to tailor the education to your child 100%. That's especially helpful with a 2E kid like you've got, since you can both play to his strengths and build up those areas where he demonstrates weaknesses.

I guess my advice would be to look into home schooling and see what you think, see if it's something you think you can/want to do. It seems like your child is the exact sort of person who has the most to gain from home schooling, really. You can always decide it's not for you and go on as you are now or switch schools, right? You lose nothing by looking.

FWIW, I don't think grade advancement is always required for an HG+, especially when there are complicating factors like LDs. But I do think you'll probably have to do something to address his GTness eventually, one way or another. And the more GT the kid is, the more significant the "something" has to be and the sooner "eventually" will arrive.

Finally, if it helps, I don't think that any of the options you're considering are bad ones.

If your son is happy where he is, I'd be tempted to keep him there and afterschool him, but that's just my knee-jerk reaction. Is he showing improvement in his areas of relative weakness this year? Do you think he's going to make up some ground there this year, or is he still going to need significant help and OT in those areas next year and on into the future? That would also be a huge factor in the decision if I were in your shoes. If he needs the OT that the school is providing this year, then staying there and afterschooling or else full-fledged home schooling sound like your better choices to me.

Hang in there!

Kriston and Dottie, thanks.

Kriston, you make me feel better. School was so miserable for him from the day he started in preschool that we could do nothing school-related at home. I wonder what kind of student he would have been had we started him in a better school for him. For now, we do the CTY math on the weekends. And he loves it. (the animations are great - not so sure he'll love it when he gets to the drier content of the EPGY math courses). But it's hard to find the time. I don't want to be adding schoolwork on top of schoolwork. Still trying to figure things out.

As for this year in school - we are weighing the good (support and understanding for him, and no pressure re: the work) against the negatives (his discomfort in a huge school where hallways are jam packed -- 800 kids in the first and second grade hallways taking off their coats and unloading backpacks into narrrow shared lockers every morning -- and 200 kids at a time at lunch and at recess, no real friends in his class), and next year he'll be in a new school anyway with no familiar faces.

Re: the private school, they require a lot of writing, but do customize the work for the more advanced kids. But I remember hearing at an open house a couple of years ago that "our second graders are doing fourth grade math," and thinking "why?" It's one thing to individualize instruction, but what's the point of pushing everyone ahead at the same pace? I think DS could do 4th grade math, but I'm a bit nervous about the lockstep push approach in general. Also, the private school has a lot of "keeping up with the Joneses" social pressures we could do without.

And re: homeschooling - DS would be happy not to ever get out of the house, so I'm not so sure it would be so good for him socially. Of course, if we lived in a warm climate where he could wear a t-shirt, gym shorts and flip-flops all day, he'd get out more. Despite everyone telling me he has to get used to [fill in the blanks - wearing socks, sweaters, taking a loud and crowded bus where the driver yells at the kids to be quiet or that it's their stop, etc.], I finally realize that when he's an adult, he'll choose his environment based on his comfort zone. Probably have a job in a science lab somewhere where it's warm and casual dress. So why make him miserable now, especially if it interferes with his learning and happy outlook on life? The personality change that came over him in his early schooling was major and distressing for all. I just wish I knew we had options at the time.

And Dottie - great point about NCLB. He'll certainly help bring up the scores. Fact is that his Stanford 10 scores last year were all pretty much between 3rd and 5th grade (with one post-high school). And we don't really know where his achievement is, as he refused to try on the schoolwork portions of the WIAT, not trying math problems, reading passages, or writing that I knew very well he could do if he tried. And not knowing what to expect, I certainly didn't prep him to try his best, etc. I wanted the psychologist to observe him and tell us what was going on with school, and we learned a lot. Of course, on the other hand, his score must be a tiny part of the whole with 400 kids in the grade. There must be a large number of kids in his group, too.

So, writing all this out, it makes me think that the best option for now is to keep him in the public school for another year, and to be very careful about his next teacher. I also think that I need to push the school to teach to his abilities. We'll get his first report card next month and I'm very curious to read what the teachers write. I have to say I was alarmed to hear in the November parent teacher conference that they were "studying" comprehension and how to ask questions - of all things for a boy like DS! They have his test scores, after all...

I wish there was a gifted school around here. That would be the best choice for him - let him move forward in the academic subjects, but receive remedial help for his writing skills. Oh well, wishful thinking...