Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy "Logic"

DD10 has always tried to reason things out. This is a good thing.

More recently, she has been trying to use "logic" in parenting situations where she isn't getting what she wants. It has transcended concrete evidence based reasoning to abstract thought and interpersonal-emotional issues. She sounds a lot like those cliche soap opera women trying to manipulate their husbands. Like some sort of ersatz Dr. Phil-esque pop psychologist. Ha! Her "logic" in these situations is clearly flawed but similar to the adults in my life whom I try to "suffer gladly." I guess it's precocious and her ability to create cogent arguments will get better with age and experience? Did I drive my own mother this flippin' crazy?

Does anyone else have a tween and a headache? When did the "but you said..." and "but you didn't specify that it had to be..." and the "I guess you just don't care about..." all start? It started sneaking in over the last couple years but it's in full bloom these days! (For the record, we don't give in to her... she just keeps trying.)

i sooo fear what's to come! i have been getting that stuff from DS8 for almost as long as I can remember. He has been tangling me in semantics and technicalities and loopholes for years. It's one thing to out-reason me or find a loophole or technicality BUT i can't stand the "...i guess you care more about xxx than me" nonsense!!

zarfkitty ... thanks for your post and how you put it. I can see you have a sense of humor through all of this which I suspect you will need! I now have a visual of your DD draped over the furniture pleading her case... I have no idea why the furniture is there, probably has to do with the small clips of soap operas I have seen in commercials.

"I guess you just don't care about...."

Goodness, is someone giving these kids a script to use? If so, I'd like to sign up to get my manual to neutralize them. DS is 9 and we've been hearing this alot lately. Something else we're dealing with is his lack of acceptance of the word "no" - it's as if he's never heard it before and he deems it an instant invitation to begin stating his case and making his arguments. It's driving us batty, especially when he acknowledges that (historically) he's been unsuccessful at getting us to change our minds using his tactics. We've also had to resort to clarifying that "maybe" and "I'll think about it" are not codespeak for "yes, but I'm waiting to tell you until I decide you've waited long enough"....

Thanks, everyone!

Haha, Katelyn'sMom!! Some days, it's a chaise lounge and DD is Scarlett O'Hara. Other days, it's the witness stand and she's cross examining a hostile witness. :-)

Love it! Am curious... did your DD have a wild imagination as a toddler? I ponder this because the more you describe the more I'm sure this will be my future very soon. DD already takes her stand but not to the dramatics that your child displays. Only a matter of time I'm sure.

Thank the maker it isn't only my child. (Referring to my DD10)



I think I mutter this on a daily basis, to which my DH adds, "you wanted smart children"...as he quickly walks the other way with a smirk on his face.

Even scarier, my DD6 is studying her very closely....

Have you tried sitting her down and talking to her about this? I'm not necessarily talking about the "it's wrong for you to try to manipulate people" talk, although that *might* work. But maybe you could sit down with her and explain a little about basic logic and logical fallacies. There's plenty of stuff out there to read on the nature of logic and how to construct logical arguments (ugh...bad memories of college philosophy here). Help her understand how to use logic properly and how to construct truly convincing FACTUAL arguments. Make her understand that REAL logical arguments are going to get her much further than attempts to manipulate you. Of course, I'm assuming that if she WERE to out-logic you, properly, without emotional manipulation, you would admit it and change your position.

I recall an argument/debate between myself and my oldest over playing violent video games. He laid out a very logical (not manipulative) set of reasons why he should be allowed to play. At the end he stated that since I agreed with each of his statements I needed to follow the logic and allow him to play violent video games. The hitch - I told him my decision to not allow him to play was based on subjective emotion and I still felt the same way.
But yes, Zhian, in other instances if I legitimately got my pants beat in the logic game by my children I would change my stance.

Where I usually get beat is the amazing memory for things past that get thrown into the arguments.

I'm in trouble, apparently, in this department. DS is only 6 (well will be on Friday).

I told him this weekend that he MUST turn his socks the right way before putting them in the laundry basket, so I didn't have to turn them the right way before putting them in the washer. Both kids & DH leave their socks inside out! Drives me INSANE.

Leave it to DS to argue that the inside of the socks is where his feet are sweaty and should be the part exposed to the soapy water.

I'm dealing been dealing with all of this trying to manipulate/outwit me stuff too. Sometimes it's so scary how right he is. Other times he is looking for the loopwhole that really does not qualify for me to give in. I have to keep explaining how it would be too much for him to be incharge, paybills, set schedules, clean and cook. Just be a kid. He will have a turn when he is an adult. It's amazing how at times his ego/confidence can take him to sucess. He does tend to win a lot and I think there is some positive energy there that helps somehow. I just need to keep his realty in check.

There really must be a script! "You didn't specify..." and "I guess you don't care about..." I hear those all the time from DD11.

It is things like this that make my ex-husband refer to our youngest (of 3) and say "Thank the Lord for one average child at least." (Not where she can hear him of course... and I have a feeling her area of giftedness just hasn't been discovered yet!)

Here's what I did in that situation: Stop turning the socks right side out (even if it drive you bonkers). Once they get their socks returned wrong side out and have to do it themselves when in a hurry to leave the house (along with them still being a bit grungy) they should start doing it before they toss them in the hamper and even if they don't it's no longer your problem.

Ahh, but mine can stymie that one--they leave the socks all balled up in the laundry. And socks can go through the washer and dryer in a ball and come out with the dirt still inside! Arrrgh!

I agree with the idea that they have a manual somewhere--how well do I know the "you care more about xxx than me" one!

So let them deal with dirty socks that are still damp on the inside! LOL I'm a strong believer in real consequences.

Yep, that's what I do! Hey, that sock doesn't feel quite so good when it's moist, does it? HA!

Y'all's kids wear socks?!?!!?

ROFL zarfkitty - it is 30 degrees and the ground has snow on it but darling DS - no socks. And DD? Yes, on the socks but a big NO on the shoes - yes, even outside - except for school or to go to the store.

DS5 would wear flip-flops in the snow if I would let him. I do NOT let him! LOL!