Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional ADD - not hyperactive

Hi mnmom23,

Like others I'm hesitant to say too much because I think every child and every situation is unique. I think even within the framework of the ADHD diagnosis, there are so many other factors which may have more influence over a person than the attention piece. So here's my story - sorry it's so long.

Your son sounds an awful lot like the way I was in school. I spent a lot of time in my head, lost things, didn't do much school work, but I was happy in my world. One difference might be that when I was focused on a test or playing music, I wasn't slow. But given anything personally challenging, i.e. written reports that required organization and extended focus, and I felt overwhelmed. As an adult I have been diagnosed as ADD (with no hyperacivity). My understanding is that there are some "impulsive" things that I do that no one would ever really call hyper. For example, I move my fingers around (I'd run through piano or cello pieces with my hands, barely moving them, while in class. I also doodled - this is on another thread.) I haven't suffered many of the greater mishaps of adults living with ADHD like speeding tickets, car accidents, etc. If I had been the parent of me, I would not have opted for medication when I was young. I was an underachiever as I grew older, so in today's world, I would have considered cognitive behavioral therapy and possibly medication when I was an adolescent. Hindsight is great.

One of my kids is a dreamer who gets his work done; the other doesn't get his work done. I was never willing to consider medicating him to help him with school work, but around 5th grade he started to really feel badly about himself and was falling behind. Untreated ADHD puts a person at greater risk for depression and he seemed to be heading that direction. He started taking Vyvanse, a stimulant, in August, and the difference is amazing. He's as silly and creative as ever, but happier and more productive. I think the overwhelmed feelings are the ones that are dangerous.

As an almost 50 year old adult, I started taking a stimulant about 6 months ago. It's hard to describe the effect and I think everyone may have slight differences, but for me it gives me the sustained mental energy to follow an idea through to its conclusion, which in turn makes it easier for me to make decisions.

None of this means that your son has ADHD, or that he needs medication. In fact, if you're not pretty darn sure, I would not look to the diagnosis as an explanation for behavior. But, I am not and have never been hyper (in fact was so quiet as a child I was almost invisible) and I'm proof that there are introverted, non-hyper, non-destructive ADD people out there. And I love the combination!

It sounds like you're paying attention and if your son gets to a point where things aren't working for him, you'll know to look a little further. Enjoy the ride!

Benny

Mnmom23,

I think someone else said this, but I wanted to reiterate. Sometimes when a child is diagnosed with something like ADHD, there is a concern, but it is not necessarily ADHD. I am not a psychologist, but I did a lot of research when trying to figure out my younger son. He got a diagnosis of ADHD, but vision therapy is doing wonders for him...but I had noticed some concerning visual symptoms so I wanted to explore that side of things before agreeing that he might have ADHD. Another friend, her son sounds a bit like yours, also got an ADHD diagnosis, but his symptoms fit CAPD better. He has a hard time differentiating background and foreground noise. He also has a difficult time paying attention to people lecturing at him, so by the end of the day he is exhausted and can't pay attention anymore. The problem is that the normal psychologist who looks at a child does not necessarily have the skills to differentiate these items.

Lya

Hi Mnmom, Have you looked at dyspraxia? Here is a link to symptoms http://www.dyspraxiafoundation.org.uk/services/ad_symptoms.php

Here is the section on
Learning, thought and memory:


Difficulty in planning and organising thought
Poor memory, especially short-term memory. May forget and lose things
Unfocused and erratic. Can be messy and cluttered
Poor sequencing causes problems with maths, reading and spelling and writing reports at work
Accuracy problems. Difficulty with copying sounds, writing, movements, proofreading
Difficulty in following instructions, especially more than one at a time
Difficulty with concentration. May be easily distracted
May do only one thing at a time properly, though may try to do many things at once
Slow to finish a task. May daydream and wander about aimlessly

Maybe that helps.

When someone on a message board first told me about dyspraxia I didn't think my son could possibly have it because not all symptoms fit.

For example:

He has an extremely good auditory memory and could memorize hundreds of words of script and song lyrics at 4 1/2 and his timing is good when he sings. He could listen to something on the news and retell it complete with important details better than I can even though he had been playing a video game while listening. He did sometimes forget where he put things especially if he was talking or thinking about something else when he put it down. He also has a good visual memory for things like words so spelling is one of the things he is very good at if you have him spell orally or type the words; however, if he has to write a few paragraphs he will sometimes misspell words because the physical act of writing seems to take away from his ability to think about the spelling especially if he feels rushed or tired. His motor memory is not good at all but he is often able to compensate for his difficulty with motor planning and motor sequencing by using his very good verbal memory and verbal sequencing ability.

My son is not unfocused and erratic but the messy and cluttered part fits.

He did not have any difficulty with reading and spelling, in fact he read without being taught and started spelling words when he was 2 1/2.

He does take forever to do any kind of written work because writing is harder for him and he has fatigue issues and often needs breaks. Written math problems are harder for him because of his dysgraphia but also because he has trouble shutting out more interesting things that pop into his head. I remember finding him sitting on the front porch on more than one occasion while his cousins played in the yard. When I asked if what he was doing he said he was just thinking. He always liked to think; he was good at thinking, doing was the problem.

Also, some days he seems to be more dyspraxic than others. That is really hard to explain to other people. For example, he recently managed to quickly learn a new song and dance simultaneously. One day he can play a piano piece well after little practice and the next week after practicing a lot, he doesn't do as well. Luckily, he was having a dyspraxic day when he was tested so we got the diagnosis. He hadn't had enough sleep the night before because he was anxious about the testing and testing lasted for hours to the point where he was getting a headache and was very tired so his compensation strategies were not working very well for him.

I will share my son's story, just in case it is helpful. My DS5 got in trouble a lot in kindergarten for not paying attention and doing unusual things (like pulling down posters during story time or tearing up a classmate's artwork mindlessly while other kids were playing during recess). He hated school because he said "there are too many rules" and "boring". The thing is, he is a really sweet kid, quiet and thoughtful and very affectionate with his family, so it made me really anxious and upset to hear reports of his strange/destructive/annoying behaviors. His teacher thought he was smart, but she really had no idea how smart. When he was tested last year at a center for gifted children, his scores were all above 99.9%. He was doing math and reading at 3-4 years ahead of his chronological age. That was done in a one-on-one setting with a tester who had a lot of experience with gifted kids. A year later, at school, he took an achievement test with his classmates. The test contained stuff he had already mastered when he was two, like sight words and easy adding. His scores were perfectly average - in the 50th-60th percentile range! I assumed it was because he wasn't paying attention because the material was too easy, but now I think it was that he was too slow and didn't finish. I recently took him to a private psychologist for a thorough psychological/behavioral evaluation. He got diagnosed with Asperger's and ADD. He is not hyper at all (he is more like hypo!) but he is definitely inattentive. Also, his IQ scores were very interesting. He scored above 99-99.9% in all areas but scored only about 60% in "visual matching". I think that was the only section that had a time limit. With his special needs, a regular school was obviously not a good fit for him. I homeschool him now and he is doing great. He is much happier and he tries hard to control his own behavior and pay attention. He can pay attention to his math lessons for only a short time (10 minutes or so at a time) even though math is his favorite subject. He needs a lot of redirecting and reminders from me during that time. He really knows his math but is unbelievably slow. This could be a problem when he gets older and starts doing more complex math. But he is doing great so far as long as I'm patient with him and give him all the time he needs. He is five years old and just finished a 3rd grade curriculum! He had a bit of a hard time with multiple digit multiplication because he would get distracted during long calculations, but he is getting better with more practice. He is so proud of himself and is very excited to start 4th grade.

After this long story, I don't really have a "cure" for my DS or a suggestion for yours. Here are just some ideas for you to explore. Have you gotten him tested for allergies? My son has allergies and I've noticed when he spends a lot of time outdoors or drinks a lot of dairy, his ADD gets noticeably worse. I am taking him to an allergy specialist next week to figure out exactly what's going on. I suspect casein (and maybe gluten) sensitivity, but we will see. You mentioned that you got him tested before? You might not even know he is gifted if you're just going by school achievement tests. Try to get him in a one-on-one testing environment and, if possible, choose tests that are not timed and a tester who has experience with gifted kids. I wish you and your child all the best.

While I personally have always been the first one done with tests in class, you have described me to a T!!! I'm not hyperactive, and yet my mind wanders and does not stay focused, most especially when I'm bored with what is in front of me.

When the work is not fun or challenging or down right blah, anything and everything can distract me.

I read somewhere that there are several different levels of ADD/ADHD, and I haven't read through this thread. But I will see if I can find it for you.

Here, this might be a start:

ADD & ADHD in Children Link

Are you sure we don't have the same boy at home. Takes forever to do work, seems to hear what he wants and sits in the bathroom for extended periods daydreaming or reading. Mine also likes to maked noises often. He knows it bothers the teacher so I am not sure if some is intentional. I have realized that I make constant noise or talk also. Learned behaviour?

I guess I should give a little update. We consulted with a psychologist after my DS11's teacher noticed him getting distracted in class. This was added to to our extensive observations of his attention problems at home with homework. The psych said it definitely sounded like he had problems with attention, so he gave us survey to have his teachers, as well us us, fill out. Well, as of today they have been scored, and the only survey that turned up clinically significant attention scores were from a teacher who admits she doesn't know my son well. In truth, none of the teachers really do know him well since he's only been at the school since September and since he's very shy and quiet. We also had his last year's teacher fill out the survey, but she had 35 kids in her class last year and I don't know if she would have noticed if he was paying attention or not. So, anyway, we're back to square one.

Next week he'll take the WISC-IV and the WJ-III so that we can try to get an accurate learning profile.

Does anyone have any suggestions about where we can go from here?