Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums GT Research NutureShock-The damage we cause by over-praising

I just received this book and find the information and research cited very interesting -- certainly worth considering their alternative methods.

I didn't initially realize the book was about more than the praise issue. It challenges many of our society's current positions/behaviors regarding children.

I am surprised that some people have issue with the chapter on race. I found it fascinating. There's a study they cited with preschoolers that I found very thought-provoking. I certainly don't feel the book discussed race in a "racist" way. It does challenge many people's current belief that if you have fully-integrated schools/institutions, and don't ever discuss race, then race will become a non-issue. My understanding is that the authors believe that children naturally notice visible differences between themselves and others (including race, gender, etc...) and tend to group themselves where they feel they belong. The authors suggest it is imperative that discussions about race take place with young children in a positive way in order to avoid issues surrounding racial attitudes.

I would recommend the book as an interesting read for anyone with kids.

thanks for the mini review, I plan to read this over the thanksgiving break.

In the acknowledgments the authors expressed thanks "for encouraging us to 'geek out' in our stories, trusting that readers would be turned on, not turned off, by the depth of science we covered." I learned about many interesting studies I hadn't been aware of before reading the book. Bodrova and Leong's Tool Of the Mind work about cognitive self-control was especially intriguing.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/magazine/27tools-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Thanks, inky. That was an interesting article. I thought it was fascinating that the Tools of the Mind kids go through "Make-Believe Play Practice � with the teacher leading the children, step by step, through the mechanics of pretending," because more than once I've invited a kid over hoping they would engage in imaginative play with DS4, only to discover that the other kids didn't have any clue how to pretend.

I think part of the problem is that young kids don't have enough time alone with each other these days. It frustrates me to no end that I'm still expected to accompany DS4 on his playdates and that parents/caretakers insist on being in the room where the kids are playing, so they can constantly supervise and intervene. I was even on one playdate where an adult lectured the kids for starting a game of cops and robbers because "robbers are good people too--just people who made bad decisions in life." Pretend pirate play was similarly squelched. Talk about sucking the fun out of childhood! OK, I'm done ranting now.

kcab, I don't think 'Tools of the Mind' seems new either. It sounds like what moms & dads & children have done forever. Little children mimic their parents. Little girls played with dollbabies; feeding, rocking, & changing them, just like mommy. They prepared food for their dolls and made clothing for them. Little boys wore their daddy's hats & boots; tagged along to the shop or on the farm, watching & trying to do what daddy did. The favorite toys of boys have been things to build with(or tear down!), farm animals, etc.
When you think about it, throwing a bunch of 4 & 5 year olds together with very little adult modeling seems very counter intuitive to teaching & training them to become adults. It sounds like the perfect environment to encourage wild, out of control behavior!
Therapists know the value of play therapy for children, it's about time our educational leaders understand it.

Moms & dads & children have done this forever but unfortunately it's become less common than it used to be and seems undervalued. With busy schedules less time is spent on this type of play. Instead, there's been a greater focus on entertaining kids and using "educational" videos for young brain development.

More children are arriving at school without developing these foundational skills. The great thing about Tools is that it provides impressive data for educational leaders (and hopefully parents) that this is valuable.

Hmmmm, that last quote got me thinking about whether music training would be helpful to increase executive functioning. (There have been studies that show a positive correlation between math achievement & music.) I found this recent article, "Musical expertise, bilingualism, and executive functioning."

I've also reserved NurtureShock from our library, the more I've read this thread, the more I'm interested in what all is covered in it.

[/quote]

But you have to ask what level of math is being taught,how high is 'high IQ,' how far up 'average' stretchs, and sadly how 'doing well' is defined. If the math is so easy or the bar of 'doing well' is set too low, than maybe we are seeing bored high IQ kids acting out?

Maybe p175 explains all of that, but on the face of it, the above statement has more of a 'but liars can figure' feeling to me.

I think that it's ironic, to say the least, that parent's are getting blamed for 'telling your kid that they are smart' while school get off easy, when they are the main culprit of 'showing' kids that they are 'smart.' Then to get a needed gradeskip, you have to label you kid and advocate, which in some people's eyes, make you a helicopter parent.

hrumph!
Grinity

I hear you Grinity. I couldn't find the paper cited but this article expands on it more than the book. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=beyond-iq-kids-who-can-focus-on-task-do-better-math


I see helicopter parenting as doing things for children that they should be doing for themselves, not letting them learn from their mistakes, and giving them the impression they don't need to work because they are smart. This type of parenting handicaps the child into being trapped in the fixed mindset and the accompanying negatives Dweck describes in Mindset: sticking with easier puzzles instead of trying a harder one, not taking a class that can help you in the long run but may lower your GPA in the short run, looking for a mate who puts you on a pedestal instead of one who challenges you to be a better person.

Unfortunately the helicopter parent label is thrown around to undermine almost any involved parent.