Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums GT Research Article: US Schools Fail to Serve Best, Brightest

I didn't start this thread to teacher bash. I don't think anyone did. When people mention "the system" they are talking generalities, not about anyone specific teacher or admin. the article is an advertisement for the documentary, 2 Million Minutes. Can/do our kids compete globally? Do they need to? Those are important questions that I think is worthy of discussion. Is our science/math education as bad as they say? Yes, there are wonderful schools. There are wonderful principles. There are wonderful teachers. But when you start looking at the "system" what percentage do they make up? 10%? 20%. At one point do we decide the system is in need of a overhaul? When I left graduate school, the classes which came behind me where 50% Asian. I have spoken to a couple of engineering friends who say that Indian and Asian students walked circles around the American students.

WHen a governor proposed doing as some other states and setting up math and science schools, he was unilaterally shut down. And the excuse? We don't want to train anymore scientists and engineers and have another Challenger disaster? I'm flummoxed by that comment.

I was told by the Principle of DS's school that they don't do science b/c they have so many holidays to celebrate. When I pressed her that the other school in our district teaches science her comment was that that school is smaller and the science program is run by those parents in a VERY disparaging tone.

And yes, my son had a great teacher last year for K who differentiated for him. I went in and did science several times w/ the kids.

I also volunteered often in my son's 2nd grade class, doing science w/ the kids several times, helping out at all the parties as the teacher requested. I've only ever asked for assistance from a teacher when it involved my child's emotional state. I did ultimately pull both my kids out of the school system b/c as it is setup, their needs would not be met. I felt it was unfair to ask for more since so many kids needed help. My son figured this out for himself when I asked why he didn't speak up to the teacher. He said, "B/c the other kids need to learn this stuff." My 5yr old told me,"If I ask her to change things just for me, she'd have to make a worksheet for me every time for everything." the choice has been made to service the bottom rather than the top as the article addresses. Our district is using every single penny of the stimulus money for special-ed. But I don't think we should settle for this and all decide to homeschool. I think we need to change the system. THere are things that can be done which won't cost any money - it's the attitudes which need to be changed.

And I've recently read from a couple of people who have taught math and science in college....even the best and brightest who took ALgebra, pre-Calc in high school are struggling in college. They just didn't have a firm understanding. That kids haven't been trained in logical thought, application of what they've learned. One quote I saw said that a third of US students when asked how many buses are required to transport soldiers when each bus carries 30 soldiers, gave a decimal answer.

anyhow, I have to run....sorry for the ramble.

My son who learned to read on his own at 2 and was grade levels ahead academically in reading and math at age 7 and who is smarter than I am even though I made straight A's in school would have had problems with origami and arts and crafts because he was born with dyspraxia, a motor learning disability. He has always been very aware that people who don't know him might judge him or his intelligence by his motor skills. He understands that people often have difficulty believing that someone can be both gifted and have a learning disability. What is sad is that there are teachers in our schools who don't understand and don't care to learn more about kids like mine. This is one of many reasons I have to homeschool.

I probably should not post now because I don�t have the time to fully develop this comment.

I would like to offer though; the alternative viewpoint that although a particular school may bend over backwards for a few or many gifted children, the unilateral defense of the entire public school system isn�t warranted based on individual experience and can be perceived as more �political correctness� than sincere high regard. Another example is the parent that lives in or near a large city where the public schools are highly performing with extraordinary academic programs, well appointed facilities staffed with the most educated teachers available and then conclude that the public school system couldn�t be better (for their kid). Similarly, those whose kids attend GT magnates or specialty charters find a very comfortable niche to cheer on the school system. I wish it worked so well for all.

I do respect Ace too for her convictions and defense of the public schools, which seem particularly selfless, but I can�t understand the position that it is harmful or selfish to the whole to remove any child from a system that a parent or student is not satisfied with.

Truly, the above opinion is not directed towards anyone in a malicious manner. My point is that I don�t think anyone here relishes in bashing public schools, but that the critique is based on anything from concern for a particular child to our nation�s future, in general.

I think kids' school success and enjoyment absolutely boils down to parental involvement, whether that's via homeschool or visits to the class to volunteer or just discuss needs. Based on the stories just in this thread, it's clear the number of issues that teachers have to deal with is basically equal to the number of kids in their class - lots!

I was just filling out a volunteer form the teacher sent out, and had made a decision to come in at least 1 morning every 3 weeks or so, despite working full time. I'm lucky to have that flexibility, I know many parents don't. This thread re-confirms that decision to at least pop in from time to time to help, support the teacher, take the pulse so to speak of the environment.

She had also sent out a two page questionnaire asking for parent input on how your child learns, how you think they're doing in reading, writing and math and what goals you'd like for them in these areas, plus room to put more comments. I just really liked the immediate, open communication. (so far, so good!)

My kids get a personalized educations at their private schools. There are schools like theirs out there, but they're rare and if they're private, many people can't afford them. This is why my fantasy school is free.

My point is that individualized education can be done. In fact, it is done every day for kids with disabilities. Why not for bright kids?



There's a law that says they have to do this for 1:1,000,000 kids with disabilities. Why not bright kids too?

I'm one of the people who's very frustrated with the public school system. I'm frustrated on a personal level because I'd love to send my kids to public schools, but I just can't. I'm even more frustrated because the results of our school system are that we don't have enough people who can be scientists or engineers, and too many people are taken in by ideas like hospital death panels.

I know that many, many individual teachers are wonderful people and great teachers, but the problems mostly stem from the system as a whole, which in turn in runs on individuals and the sociology of group behavior: lots of people are unhappy with the status quo but it doesn't change because the ability to create change breaks down in a group. Part of the problem is that the senior people are often the ones who thrive in the dysfunctional system.

I'm sorry if I offend people or put people off by expressing my opinions here. Thing is, I'm tired of feeling obliged to smile placidly and talk about how wonderful the schools are and how hard the teachers work. I know they work hard --- but it's beside the point. The school system is broken, and it won't change until people start making noise.

(Actually, I'm also kind of tired of valid criticisms about schools being labeled as teacher-bashing. (I said this not to be accusatory, but to try to be thought-provoking )

Val

WEll, I think the issue is the internet. If people are perfectly happy w/ their situation, are they spending hours on the net researching something? Probably not. It's the people that have a problem that are searching for answers that are on the messageboards. IT's the beginning of a new school year, many are frustrated w/ the slow pace of the start of the year and are venting, asking questions, looking for answers. For those who get the right response from their school, they are happy to move on with life and leave the messageboards. Those that left behind are the ones who didn't get a good answer from their schools and are still angry and frustrated.

I know it's hard for those in the great schools but w/out knowing that the great schools are out there, and hearing all the wonderful stories, those that aren't in great schools won't know what to strive for, what to ask for, or what to expect! SO we need those that are in those great schools, who have fought the hard fight to be beacons in the dark for the rest of us.

SkydiveMom - please don't take that article as teacher bashing. I think you highlight beautifully what the issues are. Some of my very good friends are teachers and I know what they are up against. I was fortunate that my kids had pretty good teachers and it wasn't enough. I think most teachers are dealing the cards they've been dealt by the system.

Yesterday I listened to a webinar for teachers on Differentiation in the classroom. It was given by a teacher. She spoke about how she was reactionary in her approach to differentiation and she had to learn to be PROACTIVE in her approach. It transformed how she tuaght her classes. Of course this is easier if you have fewer levels to contend with and don't have huge behaviour problems. From talking w/ teachers, it only takes the one kid to ruin your entire year. A friend said that her son's teacher said they didn't do science that year which he normally does a lot of, b/c of one kid who took up so much time.

I live in a good socio-economic area. It's mostly white, middle to high class - free lunch percentage is VERY low. And there has been few if any behaviour issues in any of my kids classes. My friends have told me stories from their schools that make my skin crawl but we have no such thing at our school. There still is the pervasive idea that all kids are the same, should be treated the same, no subject acceleration, no grade skips, little Johnny must sit and wait for the other kids to catch up mentality. This is the attitude that needs changing. The idea that gifted kids will challenge themselves, that truely gifted kids don't get bored, that kids can wait until high school to take AP classes. THis is what the article is addressing and what I think the film 2Million minutes will address. I haven't seen the films yet but my friend ordered them and it'll be interesting watch. Supposedly, the final installment of 2 Million minutes gives the solution to the US's problems of neglecting the brightest kids and lack of a good science/math education in the US.

So I agree when Skydivemom say's


which I think is the message behind the documentary.

Has anyone watched the documentary?

I think it's hard in our day-to-day quest to meet our own kids' needs to look past the faces of education that we see: particularly the principals, teachers,counselors, even individual schools... and realize that they are not the problem (and in fact, are frequently part of individual solutions/successes I read about on this board).

The issue as I see it is the mentality in our country about education: that the biggest problem that needs to be solved is to bring everyone up to a lowest-common-denominator type of education; that if the gifted are so bright, then they need no special help because they can learn on their own; failing to acknowlege that the intellectually-talented are one of our nation's greatest assets (or worse that it's somehow politically incorrect to acknowledge at all that some people are born intellectually-talented); that more homework/hours in school = better education; that spending more money means getting better results; that we shouldn't be looking elsewhere in the world for better educational ideas because we're us and, after all, we're the most powerful nation on Earth....

Add to that the way that extracurricular activities go these days: if my DS7 wants to play an in-season sport, then there are 2-3 practices per week plus weekend games. He's SEVEN!!!! What's up with that? He's not even all THAT interested -- he just wants to try it out to see if he enjoys it. (Sorry -- that topic gets me going...)

I think that our joint frustration is that even when we're lucky enough to encounter a great teacher and a great principal in a great school, the system and culture generally don't make it easy. They don't seem to prioritize the things we think they should.

In my opinion, this is the fight worth fighting, and it seems like it's the message the movie is trying to put out there. Our educational model isn't working, and other countries' models are working better. We need to acknowledge that and fix it, or pay the consequences.

So, here's my question (yes, I'm FINALLY getting to my question): what are we doing to change the SYSTEM that we all know is broken? I know we're all in there slugging for our own DDs and DSs, which is more than enough stuff on our plates, but has anyone got any ideas on working towards bigger change? Maybe I'm just feeling pie-in-the-sky at the moment, or maybe I'm out of touch and you're all already very involved in bigger picture efforts to effect change. DH and I are actively trying to get changes to our DSs' school system and not just at the class/school level. But are there things you guys are doing on a larger scale?

Thanks for letting me get on my soapbox. I wish all of you a wonderful weekend!