Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Mailed off our DYS app today

Thanks, all! I went out with girlfriends tonight and had a good meal and some sparkling wine, and I feel much more sane about it all...

Mia, I think what you said helps more than anything. It's hard to tell, you know? Am I just puffing DS6 up in my own mind, or is he really that smart? One test says a definite yes, another says maybe...Since he's my frame of reference, what do I really know? If he sounds qualified to you, then maybe I'm not crazy, gifted-obsessed mommy like I fear I am, and we should really pursue YSP for him. I just feel ridiculously insecure about it all. And I'm not an insecure person normally.

I'm thinking now we'll probably just have to pay for the WISC, given everything everyone has said. If he doesn't get the scores there, then I don't know if we'll apply via portfolio or not. I just flat refuse to chase test scores, and it doesn't sound like there's much hope of getting in with a portfolio. But what with DS6's lack of sleep, budding illness, and wrong test for his learning style last time, I know he didn't do his best. If we get a "best case" testing scenario--or at least something closer to it than we had before--then I'd say that's the score we're going with and let it go.

I'm babbling now. Sorry. My point was thanks, all. I appreciate the answers and the support.

"If he sounds qualified to you, then maybe I'm not crazy, gifted-obsessed mommy like I fear I am, and we should really pursue YSP for him."

He sounds absolutely qualified to me. Of course, I'm a total layperson, but the things you write about him have me completely convinced -- fwiw.

Quite honestly, even looking my ds's test scores, I feel like *I'm* a lunatic for thinking he's qualified for DYS -- he seems very smart, obviously, but not in the crazy highly verbal, highly academically motivated way that so many kids here are. Heck, he'd play Super Mario Galaxy literally *all* day long if he could, and I'm not exaggerating! But still, the numbers are there -- and I've always known he'd be up there, just not *that* up there. So anyway, I feel like a bit of a fraud, even though I know I'm not!

I bet one more set of tests will prove to you that you're *not* crazy. And I think you could put together an extrordinarily convincing portfolio -- can you include parental anecdotes? I haven't even looked at the portfolio option because my ds's handwriting is so atrocious -- it would only hurt!

Anyway, best of luck. Personally, I'd probably go ahead and do the WISC.

I got a chuckle out of your video game reference. That was certainly the kind of GT kid I was! I identify! And they're all different. But I know what you means about feeling a fraud even as you know you're not. It's a very conflicted issue for me, that's for sure!

YSP asks for only 3 pieces of "evidence" in the portfolio, which seems crazy-small to me as a sample when you're dealing with a 6yo. I mean, for older kids, they could be researching the cure for cancer and writing novels, so three pieces could be enough because they'd be BIG PIECES. But at 6? Even your "average" PG kid isn't doing that sort of big stuff. So do I include a book he's written and illustrated showing Transformers blowing one another up? (No, he hasn't seen any movies or TV containing Transformers! It's all coming from him!) Do I include the video of his learning to do 3-digit addition in his head so they can see how fast he picks it up? Does that distinguish him from an MG kid? Because that's what the portfolio has to do, right? Show the difference between MG and PG. Well that's really hard to show! Does a list of things he's said cut it? And how many comments can I include before I'm abusing their willingness to read it?

*sigh*

England...England...England...



Actually, if your DS's handwriting stinks, it would probably boost his chances. I have yet to hear of anyone bragging about the lovely handwriting of her HG+ kid! It's all lousy! And you could always include a typed "translation" or a recording of your DS reading it for the sake of their eyes. I've been considering sending a video of my DS explaining to me what's going on in his Transformer book-creation, since he points out all the details that my/the committee's adult eyes would just see as scribbles. He's not an art prodigy, certainly! But his yarn-spinning talents are a wonder to behold, at least to me, and they're all there in his drawings...if you can figure out what the drawings are supposed to be.

Really, I suspect video is the way to go because when you see a level 4 or above doing his/her thing, you know it! But, then again, portfolios seem to just get rejected. I just hate to spend all that money on another test. It seems so obsessive. If he got the scores and got in, it would be worth it. But if he didn't, it would seem weird and foolish and a little creepy.

Ugh! Dither, dither, dither...Honestly, all this nonsense is not like me at all! I'm starting to get on my own nerves in these posts, so I'm going to cut it out now! But I really appreciate your support. You have made me feel much less nutty. Thanks!

LOL, I've been driving *myself* nutty for the last few weeks, so you're in good company.

I agree that you're right; it can be hard to distinguished between MG and PG kids based on work samples alone when the child in question is so young. I think your Transformers book is right now. Now if my B were doing something like that ... I *can* sit him down and have him explain every *single* Mario level in excruciating detail, including the name of the level, the bad guys in it, what you have to do to beat it, how many lives you'll need, etc., etc. ... somehow, I don't think that's quite what they're looking for!

However, a handwritten Transformers book would fit that bill, I'd think. And video too -- get some video if you can. I bet that would be huge if you go with the portfolio route.

YES, include the 3-digit addition in his head. And it asks for a minimum of three pieces, right? Can you include more? If so, you could include those three that seem *most* what they're looking for -- and then a bunch of other stuff that seems relevent. And the application questions could help; I got a bunch of info in on our app that I wouldn't have been able to by working it into the answers. No, he wasn't super early with the reading milestones -- but he progressed ridiculously rapidly, which I was able to cover in the answers section.

I'll leave you alone now -- don't drive yourself crazy! I find if I spend too much time on gifted boards I start to lose my mind. Don't worry -- at least *I* don't think you're crazy, if it helps.

It does help. Very muchly! Thanks for the company in nuttiness! It really does feel like we're in this together, doesn't it?

I got the impression--perhaps wrongly--that they wanted ONLY 3 pieces for the portfolio. It doesn't say "at least three;" it says "three." I understand why that might be the case: getting a box full of everything a kid has done since birth (and you KNOW some parent somewhere would do this!) would be too much for them to wade through. I can see that they might need to force some selectivity. But 3 seems like so little information...

You're right about the app questions, though. A lot of info can go in them. It's all about the total picture, right?

I change my mind almost hourly about the WISC. I should probably just bite the bullet and pay for it. Erk...It just hurts to think of plunking down another $750 or whatever it will be for another test that might not get him in YSP even if he is qualified. Don't you just wish there were one magic bullet test that could really distinguish accurately at the tail? Even if what it said was that my DS wasn't YSP material, I'd be much less stressed about his taking it if I knew it would give us a truly good read. But when the gifted expert who tested DS6 on the SB5 said he didn't know any more about where DS6 was operating after the test than he did before, I felt pretty frustrated. It just seems rather pointless and unreliable. Not to mention expensive...

I know, I know...pipe dreams...Kids are all different, tests can only measure certain things, we don't understand what constitutes intelligence for sure, etc. etc. I get it, I just know that I prefer certainty to this nebulous "maybe" stuff!

Even so, we'll probably just have him take the WISC and get it over with. One test takes all! No pressure though...

Yes, it does feel like we're in this together! It's nice to be able to compare notes -- and to have someone understand my ravings!

You're right on the portfolio. It *does* sound like they want three pieces, no more. Hmm. Not sure what to tell you ... if you do that, I'm guessing video is your best bet. But it sounds like you're leaning toward the WISC, which is probably what I'd do, too!

And the WISC -- why on earth is it so expensive? We paid $500 flat for the WPPSI *and* the WIAT, by a private psychologist in our area -- the only one, in fact, listed on the Hoagies website for the entire state of Illinois, including all of Chicago. And that came with complete results, score breakdown, percentiles, grade and age equivalents, and a conference to discuss the results and recommendations. Who is trying to charge you $750 for the WISC alone? Or is that more the norm? I only have this one experience, but I would have thought that the big city would have increased costs ... anyone else wanna chime in?

"But when the gifted expert who tested DS6 on the SB5 said he didn't know any more about where DS6 was operating after the test than he did before, I felt pretty frustrated."

That would have really gotten me irritated. How annoying is that? I'm irritated enough by our ceilings ... should have waited those six months to do the WISC! The "not knowing for sure" was killing me before we had the testing done. I think that's why I'm at peace whether ds is accepted to the YSP or not -- I'm pretty sure that his test results were fairly accurate, so I'll have an idea of what to do. I can't imagine how it'd feel to actually have the testing done -- but no real answers. Ugh, how frustrating for you.

So, hugs, and keep on keeping on. Let us know what you decide to do -- I'm following with interest!

Mia: Back at you with those hugs! This has been such a nice conversation. I even told my DH about it and how much better I felt because of it...even if I still don't know whether to do the WISC or the portfolio...

You're right that it's the not knowing that's awful! Absolutely dead on accurate there! Test results we could feel pretty confident about would be such a relief. His WJ scores were so much higher than I expected--like more than a standard deviation!--so I'd like to know if they're skewed high or if they were pretty accurate. The more time I spend with the kid in academic pursuits, the more accurate I think they might be, actually. (When I first saw them, I thought I was getting some other kids' scores! "What the...!?!" LOL!) I've come to realize that we (meaning us as parents and his school) just weren't challenging him at all, and he's so easygoing that he just went along. Now that he's being given work more commensurate with his abilities, I see how much he's capable of, and it blows my mind. I've come around to thinking that his WJ scores were right and I was wrong.

The SB5 was the wrench in the works. DS6 scored a 134+, but the tester (a nationally recognized leader in the field of gifted assessment, so I do trust him!) said that this score was problematic. His exact words were, if memory serves, "Please don't think that your son is borderline gifted. He's clearly at least HG, and perhaps EG or PG. This test just didn't give us what we needed to know for sure. The SB5 wasn't the test for him--as it often isn't for highly verbal kids--and he was obviously tired to boot." (From lack of sleep because of staying in a motel room. *sigh*)

(BTW, that was the one truly useful thing I did learn from the test: DS6 is not visual-spatial, as I had thought he might be because of his strength with puzzles and mazes. Good to know, but probably not worth $750 to find out! )

So we were out $750 and knew nothing new AND didn't get him into YSP. It was pretty frustrating, and explains why I'm hesitating to shell out again for the WISC. That and I hate the thought of score-chasing. To tell you the truth, if the expert hadn't said, "Try the WISC in the spring to get a truer read," we wouldn't even be considering applying. I'd take the 134+ and forget it. But it was a bad test day (too little sleep and a developing illness that manifested a day or so after the test) and the wrong test. So do we try again? Humph. Could we get a money-back guarantee this time?

I don't know for sure that it would cost us $750 for the WISC. If DS6 were a faster test-taker, it would probably be cheaper than that, since they generally charge by the hour. But sadly, from what I can tell, $750 is not outrageous.

Ah, the saga that is DS6's path!

Keep me updated about your saga, too, please. I'm pulling for you and your DS!

P.S. You're not the one raving, Mia. That's ALL me!

Thanks for the help, Dottie. As always, much appreciated!

Update: Just had a long talk with DH, and we've made the decision to have DS6 take the WISC. If he gets the score, we apply to YSP. If not, we don't. Period.

And that will be that. No more retesting, barring something MAJOR that obviously and totally messed up his ability to do even passably well on the test. Like an earthquake during the test or his passing out midway through. I mean something huge!

Thanks all for your input! Such great help! I'm contacting an in-town psychologist on Monday to make an appointment.

Fingers crossed...:)

You know, Kriston, I've heard said before that any number of factors can go into a low score, but only one factor goes into a high score: what you can actually do. Sleep, illness, general discomfort, etc. can all skew results low. But you can't test better than you are -- if you got it right, you got it right. So without knowing him or any specifics, I'd guess that his WJ is probably more accurate than his SB. But you already know that.

So that said, good luck with the testing! Before Benjy's testing session, I set the clocks an hour ahead so he'd think he was going to bed "on time" at 8 -- read, not sleeping until 10. He went to sleep by 8:30 and was completely well rested the next day! Just an idea for sleeping from the mean mama.